Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 All this talk about the Ghost of Theon Past makes me want to see the Ghost of Theon Yet to Come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCK Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: As the killer, or the hooded man? Aren't they one and the same? He'd know Theon, but Theon wouldn't know him. He also knows how to sneak around Winterfell undetected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 48 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: All this talk about the Ghost of Theon Past makes me want to see the Ghost of Theon Yet to Come. Harder and stronger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 14 minutes ago, PCK said: Aren't they one and the same? He'd know Theon, but Theon wouldn't know him. He also knows how to sneak around Winterfell undetected. No, they are not one and the same. Abel’s babes did the killing, except for Little Walder. There is no hooded Stark loyalist striking down random common men from the shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Jeez, the ol' Ryswell switcheroo? Let me do some googlin', I don't quite remember that one Edit: yeah, thought so, that wasn't really me. It's in this thread here, specifically here and here, and maybe further on as well. Props to cantuse and/or sweet sunray. Personally I don't buy it, I can't see the glamouring working, and if a Ryswell brother is killed and from then on one brother is pretending to be two, I think Roose would see through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 13 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said: ...we can rule out Davos because he knows Theon didn't kill the Stark boys. Yeah, but maybe he's calling him "Theon Kinslayer" because that's his name now, even if he knows it's false. Note that he doesn't try to refute it when Theon says he isn't a kinslayer, he just reverts to the more accurate charge of being false. He even laughs at Theon, perhaps feeling that while Theon may be innocent of the precise charge of kinslaying, he's still a despicable shit who deserves everything he gets. I've never considered Davos before, and I don't think it's likely, but I do think it'd be apt for one reason: Theon shows him his missing fingers. 4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Roger Ryswell was not killed, it was one of his men-at-arms. Says "Roger Ryswell", or so the theory goes... As for Alliser Thorne, while Clydas is allegedly a spy for King's Landing, that doesn't necessarily mean direct contact with Roose. I can't see Clydas being proactive about his espionage, but Alliser Thorne - who hates Jon, feels it unjust that he ever landed at the Wall, thinks Jon is trying to get him killed, and swears to Jon that he's coming back - he could get proactive. What if he deserted, headed south, met up with Roose Bolton and offered to instigate a rebellion at the Wall to remove a Stark bastard from play and/or create problems for Stannis? Possibly asking for his freedom in return... At which point he engineers the coup, possibly with the help of some men on the inside at Castle Black - like Clydas. But even that wouldn't be too necessary, just knowing that Jon's position was precarious and forcing the Watch to choose between Jon and getting crushed by the Boltons might be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 13 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: The ghost of Theon's former self knows Theon thought of Robb as a brother, fantasized of being Eddard's son an Sansa's husband, so that Bran and Rickon were like his own brothers. Theon Kinslayer. When he denied the charge, saying he was Ironborn, the ghost of his former self knew better, saying false is all he ever was. But how do you explain that the same accusation was repeated by two more seemingly unconnected persons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said: But how do you explain that the same accusation was repeated by two more seemingly unconnected persons? Remind me who... Mors, right? And who was the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 40 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Remind me who... Mors, right? And who was the other? These are the three instances Quote Farther on, he came upon a man striding in the opposite direction, a hooded cloak flapping behind him. When they found themselves face-to-face their eyes met briefly. The man put a hand on his dagger. "Theon Turncloak. Theon Kinslayer." - ADWD, A Ghost in Winterfell Quote "Not us." Rowan grabbed him by the throat and shoved him back against the barracks wall, her face an inch from his. "Say it again and I will rip your lying tongue out, kinslayer." - ADWD, Theon I Spoiler "I am — " " — a turncloak and a kinslayer," Crowfood had finished. "You will hold that lying tongue, or lose it." - TWOW, Theon I Notice that Theon denies that accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 3 hours ago, rotting sea cow said: These are the three instances - ADWD, A Ghost in Winterfell - ADWD, Theon I Hide contents "I am — " " — a turncloak and a kinslayer," Crowfood had finished. "You will hold that lying tongue, or lose it." - TWOW, Theon I Notice that Theon denies that accusation. Rowan and Mors have been led to believe, along with most of Westeros, that Theon killed Bran and Rickon. Mors knew, and Rowan came to know, that Theon was raised with Robb, Bran, and Rickon, as Eddard's ward. Mors used it as an insult on top of insult. Rowan had learned how Theon truly felt, when she overheard the Ironborn prince praying to Eddard Stark's gods... Quote The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. "Theon," they seemed to whisper, "Theon." The old gods, he thought. They know me. They know my name. I was Theon of House Greyjoy. I was a ward of Eddard Stark, a friend and brother to his children. "Please." He fell to his knees. "A sword, that's all I ask. Let me die as Theon, not as Reek." Tears trickled down his cheeks, impossibly warm. "I was ironborn. A son … a son of Pyke, of the islands." A leaf drifted down from above, brushed his brow, and landed in the pool. It floated on the water, red, five-fingered, like a bloody hand. "… Bran," the tree murmured. They know. The gods know. They saw what I did. And for one strange moment it seemed as if it were Bran's face carved into the pale trunk of the weirwood, staring down at him with eyes red and wise and sad. Bran' s ghost, he thought, but that was madness. Why should Bran want to haunt him? He had been fond of the boy, had never done him any harm. It was not Bran we killed. It was not Rickon. They were only miller' s sons, from the mill by the Acorn Water. "I had to have two heads, else they would have mocked me … laughed at me … they …" A voice said, "Who are you talking to?" Theon spun, terrified that Ramsay had found him, but it was just the washerwomen—Holly, Rowan, and one whose name he did not know. "The ghosts," he blurted. "They whisper to me. They … they know my name." "Theon Turncloak." Rowan grabbed his ear, twisting. "You had to have two heads, did you?" "Elsewise men would have laughed at him," said Holly. They do not understand. A Ghost in Winterfell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Rowan and Mors have been led to believe, along with most of Westeros, that Theon killed Bran and Rickon. Mors knew, and Rowan came to know, that Theon was raised with Robb, Bran, and Rickon, as Eddard's ward. Mors used it as an insult on top of insult. Rowan had learned how Theon truly felt, when she overheard the Ironborn prince praying to Eddard Stark's gods... Thing is, we never heard that accusation before. Every northmen despises Theon, even Walton Steelhanks. But all of them spit at him or call him the Turncloak. All of them know that Theon "killed" Bran & Rickon, yet the first time he is called kinslayer is by the (un)hooded man and then the accusation is repeated. Also, as far as I understand it, kinslaying is very specific. I find this odd and may point to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 16 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Harder and stronger? LOL. Yes, and unable to die now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 On 2/27/2017 at 9:23 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: Roger Ryswell was not killed, it was one of his men-at-arms. Aha, but the man's face had been eaten off, and who was it who identified him as one of Roger Ryswell's men-at-arms? Why, Roger Ryswell, of course, who by now would be someone glamoured to look like Roger Ryswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, John Suburbs said: Aha, but the man's face had been eaten off, and who was it who identified him as one of Roger Ryswell's men-at-arms? Why, Roger Ryswell, of course, who by now would be someone glamoured to look like Roger Ryswell. When you open the cupboards, do you see Indians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 On 3/1/2017 at 4:30 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: When you open the cupboards, do you see Indians? lol, sometimes. Here is the link if your curious: https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/the-hooded-man-uncloaked/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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