Heresy 196 and a look at the Wall

[Brad Stark]

The Andals of Westeros are the Anglos of England.  I don't know if primitive people were there before,  but if they were I doubt they were significant and GRRM himself might not know. 

I do think advanced people were there first.   We have Moat Catlin,  the Seastone chair, the first keep in Winterfell and the High Tower, none of which seems to be built by the First Men.

[Black Crow]

7 hours ago, Matthew. said:

It has been my own position in the past to question whether or not those early Westerosi that have been subsequently categorized as "First Men" were actually a unified culture--for example, the Ironborn are culturally distinct, and even question their own status as "First Men."
 

I'd agree and suggest, particularly in view of the term First Men that we are in effect talking about aristos rather than people. The Normans [or rather Norman England] provide a good example where we have a distinct aristocratic culture overlaid on top of an older population at large.

[Black Crow]

6 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

The Andals of Westeros are the Anglos of England.  I don't know if primitive people were there before,  but if they were I doubt they were significant and GRRM himself might not know. 

I do think advanced people were there first.   We have Moat Catlin,  the Seastone chair, the first keep in Winterfell and the High Tower, none of which seems to be built by the First Men.

Oh yes indeed, and far from primitive. GRRM's early history of Westeros is very heavily overlaid on that of the British Isles. Whilst the Andals certainly correspond with the Anglo-Saxons the First Men [notwithstanding my Norman comparison above] closely correspond with the Celts. However the Celts themselves were overlaid on earlier populations and GRRM is obviously drawing a lot on Irish mythological history and in particular the Book of Invasions. In terms of timelines, Stonehenge for example is "pre-Celtic"

[Brad Stark]

England was invaded many times,  and both the Anglo-Saxons and later Normans were small culturally distinct groups.   But Westeros has the great barrow, which England does not.  Could we have had a Alexander The Great or Charlemagne type leader lead the First Men?

[Black Crow]

20 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

Westeros has the great barrow, which England does not.  

Aaaah... 

You have obviously never slept under a full moon on top of the great barrow itself - Silbury Hill - or walked in the other magic places of Britain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silbury_Hill

 

[JNR]

22 hours ago, Black Crow said:

Oh yes indeedee...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyonesse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantre'r_Gwaelod

These are all mythical sunken cities/petty kingdoms, and so potentially hit a related topic (rising sea levels). 

However, I'm looking for something that says, basically, "Once upon a time, this green island we call Britain wasn't an island at all. It was connected to that great big landmass over there where the sun comes up." 

If this doesn't exist, I wonder if that's because (very unlike Tasmania) Great Britain was subject to numerous waves of invasion, yielding many cultural shifts in every dimension since that point in time some eight thousand years ago... which had the effect of overwriting/polluting such incredibly ancient myths and legends.  Tasmania was culturally frozen compared to that.

22 hours ago, Black Crow said:

He's clearly developed an interest in the Targaryens, but is he writing this because its not relevant to the outcome of ASoIF and therefore has no place in the main narrative. The Stark connection to Winter on the other hand is clearly something that does belong there.

Naturally I like this interpretation, since it implies R+L≠J, and of course you're right about the Starks being connected to Winter in an extraordinary but as yet unrevealed sense.

I guess I just think that between the canon... the two fake history novellas... and the lengthy Targ content in the World book, that no human could read without falling into a dead sleep once at least... GRRM has done this particular family more than enough justice already.  

[Black Crow]

1 hour ago, JNR said:

These are all mythical sunken cities/petty kingdoms, and so potentially hit a related topic (rising sea levels). 

However, I'm looking for something that says, basically, "Once upon a time, this green island we call Britain wasn't an island at all. It was connected to that great big landmass over there where the sun comes up." 

If this doesn't exist, I wonder if that's because (very unlike Tasmania) Great Britain was subject to numerous waves of invasion, yielding many cultural shifts in every dimension since that point in time some eight thousand years ago... which had the effect of overwriting/polluting such incredibly ancient myths and legends.  Tasmania was culturally frozen compared to that. 

What might be significant in this context is that the lost beneath the waves stuff generally belongs to the west, where the older races were pushed by the incomers.

[Lady Dyanna]

On 3/17/2017 at 7:25 AM, LynnS said:

Dany fits the prophecy for PWiP with the correct bloodline as Aemon points out and she is reborn during MMD's ritual.  Just nobody expected a girl.  LOL. 

Well... Prophecy will bite your prick off every time...  

On 3/17/2017 at 7:25 AM, LynnS said:

There is also a reason that Melisandre is looking for AA among the Baratheon bloodline.  She isn't just looking for the firey heart;  she's looking for the firey hart (the red stag). 

I think that I'm still having a "duh" moment over this one. I need to go back and look, but I'm fairly certain that as @wolfmaid7, I believe, points out in her "R"+L=J essay there is a fair amount of symbolism present equating Jon with a horned lord or a green man. Actually, I think that @LmL has also found the same to be true in his research, only instead of equating Jon to Robert via the symbolism, he related some of it back to Rhaegar as a horned lord. Either way that you want to look at it the symbolism is there. 

On 3/19/2017 at 2:42 PM, LynnS said:

Which begs the question:  Is Jon really the 998th Lord Command or the 999th since the Night's King has been expunged from all records?

This actually makes a lot of sense to me.  

On 3/16/2017 at 6:22 PM, ravenous reader said:

GRRM spells out this correlation again very explicitly for us in the episode where Arya throws an axe to the incarcerated felons (en route from the King's Landing dungeons to the Wall...just another dungeon) huddling behind bars in their burning (wooden) wagon.

This whole interpretation is just awesome! Have you by chance looked at the Jon chapter that is either right before or after this when he is locked up in his cell in the LC's tower and ends up fighting Othor, the wight? It seems to me that Jon escaping his cell to the tune of a creaking hinge, with the weirwood colored Ghost who has just finished gouging the wooden door by raking it with his claws is symbolic of some sort of escape. That whole passage drives me nuts because I'm certain there's something important hidden in it, but I can't figure out exactly what it is. Ugh. 

[Lady Dyanna]

Here is the whole long quote...

Quote

Yet he must have dozed. When he woke, his legs were stiff and cramped and the candle had long since burned out. Ghost stood on his hind legs, scrabbling at the door. Jon was startled to see how tall he’d grown. 

“Ghost, what is it?” he called softly. The direwolf turned his head and looked down at him, baring his fangs in a silent snarl. Has he gone mad? Jon wondered. “It’s me, Ghost,” he murmured, trying not to sound afraid. Yet he was trembling, violently. When had it gotten so cold? 
Ghost backed away from the door. There were deep gouges where he’d raked the wood. Jon watched him with mounting disquiet. “There’s someone out there, isn’t there?” he whispered. Crouching, the direwolf crept backward, white fur rising on the back of his neck. The guard, he thought, they left a man to guard my door, Ghost smells him through the door, that’s all it is. 
Slowly, Jon pushed himself to his feet. He was shivering uncontrollably, wishing he still had a sword. Three quick steps brought him to the door. He grabbed the handle and pulled it inward. The creak of the hinges almost made him jump. 
His guard was sprawled bonelessly across the narrow steps, looking up at him. Looking up at him, even though he was lying on his stomach. His head had been twisted completely around. It can’t be, Jon told himself. This is the Lord Commander’s Tower, it’s guarded day and night, this couldn’t happen, it’s a dream, I’m having a nightmare. 
Ghost slid past him, out the door. The wolf started up the steps, stopped, looked back at Jon. That was when he heard it; the soft scrape of a boot on stone, the sound of a latch turning. The sounds came from above. From the Lord Commander’s chambers. 
A nightmare this might be, yet it was no dream. 
The guard’s sword was in its sheath. Jon knelt and worked it free. The heft of steel in his fist made him bolder. He moved up the steps, Ghost padding silently before him. Shadows lurked in every turn of the stair. Jon crept up warily, probing any suspicious darkness with the point of his sword. Suddenly he heard the shriek of Mormont’s raven. “Corn,” the bird was screaming. “Corn, corn, corn, corn, corn, corn.” Ghost bounded ahead, and Jon came scrambling after. The door to Mormont’s solar was wide open. The direwolf plunged through. Jon stopped in the doorway, blade in hand, giving his eyes a moment to adjust. Heavy drapes had been pulled across the windows, and the darkness was black as ink. “Who’s there?” he called out. 
Then he saw it, a shadow in the shadows, sliding toward the inner door that led to Mormont’s sleeping cell, a man-shape all in black, cloaked and hooded…but beneath the hood, its eyes shone with an icy blue radiance… 
Ghost leapt. Man and wolf went down together with neither scream nor snarl, rolling, smashing into a chair, knocking over a table laden with papers. Mormont’s raven was flapping overhead, screaming, “Corn, corn, corn, corn.” Jon felt as blind as Maester Aemon. Keeping the wall to his back, he slid toward the window and ripped down the curtain. Moonlight flooded the solar. He glimpsed black hands buried in white fur, swollen dark fingers tightening around his direwolf’s throat. Ghost was twisting and snapping, legs flailing in the air, but he could not break free.
Jon had no time to be afraid. He threw himself forward, shouting, bringing down the longsword with all his weight behind it. Steel sheared through sleeve and skin and bone, yet the sound was wrong somehow. The smell that engulfed him was so queer and cold he almost gagged. He saw arm and hand on the floor, black fingers wriggling in a pool of moonlight. (Arm of Dorne?) Ghost wrenched free of the other hand and crept away, red tongue lolling from his mouth.
The hooded man lifted his pale moon face, and Jon slashed at it without hesitation. The sword laid the intruder open to the bone, taking off half his nose and opening a gash cheek to cheek under those eyes, eyes, eyes like blue stars burning. (God's Eye?) Jon knew that face. Othor, he thought, reeling back. Gods, he’s dead, he’s dead, I saw him dead.
He felt something scrabble at his ankle. Black fingers clawed at his calf. The arm was crawling up his leg, ripping at wool and flesh. (First men still coming?) Shouting with revulsion, Jon pried the fingers off his leg with the point of his sword and flipped the thing away. It lay writhing, fingers opening and closing. 
The corpse lurched forward. There was no blood. One-armed, face cut near in half, it seemed to feel nothing. (The land of Westeros?) Jon held the longsword before him. “Stay away!” he commanded, his voice gone shrill. “Corn,” screamed the raven, “corn, corn.” The severed arm was wriggling out of its torn sleeve, a pale snake with a black five-fingered head. Ghost pounced and got it between his teeth. Finger bones crunched. Jon hacked at the corpse’s neck, felt the steel bite deep and hard. (The Neck?)
Dead Othor slammed into him, knocking him off his feet. 
Jon’s breath went out of him as the fallen table caught him between his shoulder blades. The sword, where was the sword? He’d lost the damned sword! When he opened his mouth to scream, the wight jammed its black corpse fingers into Jon’s mouth. Gagging, he tried to shove it off, but the dead man was too heavy. Its hand forced itself farther down his throat, icy cold, choking him. Its face was against his own, filling the world. Frost covered its eyes, sparkling blue. Jon raked cold flesh with his nails and kicked at the thing’s legs. He tried to bite, tried to punch, tried to breathe… (The Long Night?)
And suddenly the corpse’s weight was gone, its fingers ripped from his throat. It was all Jon could do to roll over, retching and shaking. Ghost had it again. He watched as the direwolf buried his teeth in the wight’s gut and began to rip and tear. He watched, only half conscious, for a long moment before he finally remembered to look for his sword…
…and saw Lord Mormont, naked and groggy from sleep, standing in the doorway with an oil lamp in hand. Gnawed and fingerless, the arm thrashed on the floor, wriggling toward him.
Jon tried to shout, but his voice was gone. Staggering to his feet, he kicked the arm away and snatched the lamp from the Old Bear’s fingers. The flame flickered and almost died. “Burn!” the raven cawed. “Burn, burn, burn!”
Spinning, Jon saw the drapes he’d ripped from the window. He flung the lamp into the puddled cloth with both hands. Metal crunched, glass shattered, oil spewed, and the hangings went up in a great whoosh of flame. (Dragon Steel?)The heat of it on his face was sweeter than any kiss Jon had ever known. “Ghost!” he shouted. 
The direwolf wrenched free and came to him as the wight struggled to rise, dark snakes spilling from the great wound in its belly.  (Dragons?) Jon plunged his hand into the flames, grabbed a fistful of the burning drapes, and whipped them at the dead man. Let it burn, he prayed as the cloth smothered the corpse, gods, please, please, let it burn.

[LynnS]

9 hours ago, Lady Dyanna said:

I think that I'm still having a "duh" moment over this one. I need to go back and look, but I'm fairly certain that as @wolfmaid7, I believe, points out in her "R"+L=J essay there is a fair amount of symbolism present equating Jon with a horned lord or a green man. Actually, I think that @LmL has also found the same to be true in his research, only instead of equating Jon to Robert via the symbolism, he related some of it back to Rhaegar as a horned lord. Either way that you want to look at it the symbolism is there. 

It's the concept of the malign presence that @LmLhas identified that intrigues me.  I've noticed that there is a presence, call it the second voice if you will or the subconscious presence that sometimes speaks to the main characters, filling them with doubts and driving home the futility of their situation that appears early on in the books with Arya and Jon in particular.  

I keep going back to Euron.  In the wiki, his personal sigil has been changed.  Originally it was a red eye with a slit pupil so much like the eye of Sauron in the LotR.  Frodo experiences it as the eye limned in flame when he uses the ring essentially to lift the veil.  So I think that Martin is creating his own version of Sauron trapped beyond the curtain of light; essentially a fiery necromancer in spirit form. 

I wonder if Mirri Maaz Duur's ritual woke that power; the man limned in flame and his great wolf.  In other words, the door opened and allowed the beast to enter the physical world in the presence of Euron, who represents the mouth of Sauron.

Quote

 

The Mouth of Sauron is a fictional character in J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth legendarium. He appears in The Lord of the Rings — specifically in the chapter "The Black Gate Opens" in the third volume, The Return of the King — as the chief emissary of Sauron.

He belonged to the race of the Black Númenóreans and briefly appeared in person when he haggled with the Army of the West in front of the Black Gate (Morannon in Elvish), trying to convince Aragorn and Gandalf to give up and let Sauron win the war for Middle-earth. When Gandalf turned his proposal down, the Mouth of Sauron sets all the armies of Mordor to attack them.

Also known as the Lieutenant of Barad-dûr, he had served Sauron for much of his life, learning great sorcery but forgetting his own name. As the Mouth of Sauron, "he entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again". There is some dispute over the length of time this implies. If it refers to Sauron's most recent return to Mordor, the Mouth of Sauron would have served Sauron for some 68 years when he encountered Aragorn and Gandalf. But some have theorized^{[citation needed]} that since Mordor "first rose again" during Sauron's return shortly after the destruction of Númenor, the Mouth of Sauron may be well over 3000 years old. This is unlikely since no mortal could live that long, and Tolkien says explicitly that he was a living man and not a wraith.

The Mouth uses Sauron's name although Aragorn states earlier in the second volume, The Two Towers, that Sauron does not "use his right name, nor permit it to be spelt or spoken".^[1]

 

So I wonder if the man limned in flame and the great wolf have anything to do with Jon and Ghost at all or if they represent the balancing force that the CotF try to maintain to keep the malevolent presence at bay.

Aeron experiences that presence in Euron as the screaming of a rusty iron hinge; a door being forced open. 

There is also the question of the blue flame that animates the wights and the White Walkers.  Varys' tells the story of his maiming and the voice from the flames:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion X

"One day at Myr, a certain man came to our folly. After the performance, he made an offer for me that my master found too tempting to refuse. I was in terror. I feared the man meant to use me as I had heard men used small boys, but in truth the only part of me he had need of was my manhood. He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a long hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

 

"The mummers had sailed by the time he was done with me. Once I had served his purpose, the man had no further interest in me, so he put me out. When I asked him what I should do now, he answered that he supposed I should die. To spite him, I resolved to live. I begged, I stole, and I sold what parts of my body still remained to me. Soon I was as good a thief as any in Myr, and when I was older I learned that often the contents of a man's letters are more valuable than the contents of his purse.

 "Yet I still dream of that night, my lord. Not of the sorcerer, nor his blade, nor even the way my manhood shriveled as it burned. I dream of the voice. The voice from the flames. Was it a god, a demon, some conjurer's trick? I could not tell you, and I know all the tricks. All I can say for a certainty is that he called it, and it answered, and since that day I have hated magic and all those who practice it. If Lord Stannis is one such, I mean to see him dead."

 

That the flame in brazier turns blue is very interesting and suggestive that the wights are a product of fiery necromancy.

[LynnS]

On 2017-03-21 at 8:57 AM, Frey family reunion said:

She tries to play the same trick on Janus, the two faced Greek god of doors and doorways.

The idea that the Black Gate has two faces; a different face for each side of the gate is intriguiging.  It calls to mind Tyrion' "janus" dream and the malevolent presence:

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion II

The wine, the food, the sun, the sway of the litter, the buzzing of the flies, all conspired to make Tyrion sleepy. So he slept, woke, drank. Illyrio matched him cup for cup. And as the sky turned a dusky purple, the fat man began to snore.

 

 

That night Tyrion Lannister dreamed of a battle that turned the hills of Westeros as red as blood. He was in the midst of it, dealing death with an axe as big as he was, fighting side by side with Barristan the Bold and Bittersteel as dragons wheeled across the sky above them. In the dream he had two heads, both noseless. His father led the enemy, so he slew him once again. Then he killed his brother, Jaime, hacking at his face until it was a red ruin, laughing every time he struck a blow. Only when the fight was finished did he realize that his second head was weeping.

 

 

 

[Melifeather]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

It's the concept of the malign presence that @LmLhas identified that intrigues me.  I've noticed that there is a presence, call it the second voice if you will or the subconscious presence that sometimes speaks to the main characters, filling them with doubts and driving home the futility of their situation that appears early on in the books with Arya and Jon in particular.  

I keep going back to Euron.  In the wiki, his personal sigil has been changed.  Originally it was a red eye with a slit pupil so much like the eye of Sauron in the LotR.  Frodo experiences it as the eye limned in flame when he uses the ring essentially to lift the veil.  So I think that Martin is creating his own version of Sauron trapped beyond the curtain of light; essentially a fiery necromancer in spirit form. 

I wonder if Mirri Maaz Duur's ritual woke that power; the man limned in flame and his great wolf.  In other words, the door opened and allowed the beast to enter the physical world in the presence of Euron, who represents the mouth of Sauron.

So I wonder if the man limned in flame and the great wolf have anything to do with Jon and Ghost at all or if they represent the balancing force that the CotF try to maintain to keep the malevolent presence at bay.

Aeron experiences that presence in Euron as the screaming of a rusty iron hinge; a door being forced open. 

There is also the question of the blue flame that animates the wights and the White Walkers.  Varys' tells the story of his maiming and the voice from the flames:

 

 

That the flame in brazier turns blue is very interesting and suggestive that the wights are a product of fiery necromancy.

I don't understand your connection between the blue flame and the wights? I was under the impression it was the cold winds that animated the wights and that the wind itself may have tiny particles of blood in it (from sacrifices) that came off the Wall similar to the red dust that Dany witnessed blowing in Astapor.

[LynnS]

20 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I don't understand your connection between the blue flame and the wights? I was under the impression it was the cold winds that animated the wights and that the wind itself may have tiny particles of blood in it (from sacrifices) that came off the Wall similar to the red dust that Dany witnessed blowing in Astapor.

You can think of the thing trapped beyond the curtain of light to be in control of both fire and ice.  What creeps down on the wind and the air, a miasma that raises the dead emanates from the heart of winter; and a reason for a physical Wall  and a second wall further north to contain the disembodied spirit in the heart of winter. Ultimately the wights are his shock troops unless Samwell figures out that horn will control the wights.   Euron means to release him using blood and fire sorcery and kill the gods who are keeping him trapped. 

I suspect that the Walls are maintained by living greenseers like the one at Whitetree.  The Gods' eye is on Euron's target list; so I think it maintains the God's Wall/curtain of light and the wierwood at whitetree, the ice Wall and Black Gate respectively.

[Melifeather]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

You can think of the thing trapped beyond the curtain of light to be in control of both fire and ice.  What creeps down on the wind and the air, a miasma that raises the dead emanates from the heart of winter; and a reason for a physical Wall  and a second wall further north to contain the disembodied spirit in the heart of winter. Ultimately the wights are his shock troops unless Samwell figures out that horn will control the wights.   Euron means to release him using blood and fire sorcery and kill the gods who are keeping him trapped. 

I suspect that the Walls are maintained by living greenseers like the one at Whitetree.  The Gods' eye is on Euron's target list; so I think it maintains the God's Wall/curtain of light and the wierwood at whitetree, the ice Wall and Black Gate respectively.

I don't know about that. I tend to suspect that there are dual powers and that the fire power is beyond the shadow of Asshai.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

I don't know about that. I tend to suspect that there are dual powers and that the fire power is beyond the shadow of Asshai.

I think we have an ancient necromancer represented by the man limned in flame.  Maybe it's blue flame, who knows.  I think he shares a soul with the great wolf and this is his back door into the weirnet and the dreams of those receptive to him.   The malevolent presence.  

[Brad Stark]

I thought we had evidence the Others were active before Mirri Maaz Duur.  Is there evidence of a man limned in flame with a great wolf in GRRM's books?  Or is this just a reference to Tolkien?

[GloubieBoulga]

6 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

Is there evidence of a man limned in flame with a great wolf in GRRM's books?

Rickard Stark burning in his armor when Brandon (the wild wolf) is trying to escape and save his father can match, I think. 

[Black Crow]

1 hour ago, GloubieBoulga said:

Rickard Stark burning in his armor when Brandon (the wild wolf) is trying to escape and save his father can match, I think. 

Visually it might. Arguably the executions [first the father then the son?] served if not as the trigger, then the symbol for the start of the overthrow of House Targaryen, but whether in themselves Rickard and Brandon were significant enough to qualify for an invitiation to the party in the tent I don't know. 

[LynnS]

6 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

Rickard Stark burning in his armor when Brandon (the wild wolf) is trying to escape and save his father can match, I think. 

That's a good one, perhaps some kind of forshadowing.  I go to Dany's dragon dream where she sees the line of kings in faded raiment hold swords of pale fire (palestone sword).  I take this to mean that she is seeing the line of her ancestors not unlike Jaime seeing the shadows of his ancestors back to Lann the Clever, or Jon and Ned seeing their line of ancestors in the crypts and in dreams.

But what does pale fire look like?  Is it blue flame?  Dany herself is consumed and transformed by dragon breath in that dream.  She becomes the dragon and flies.  The dragon sings to her, she becomes that dragon.  Inside the stone cavern with it's high stone arches and cave door with the red light of dawn shining through; somewhere on the Dothraki plains.  She shares a soul with the dragon, not unlike the Starks and their wolves.  It's the last dragon and perhaps the last dragon worshipped as a god.  She is transformed and has temporary immunity from the funeral fire and hatche the dragon eggs.

This is the black dragon represented by Rhaegar's armor; but neither he or Viserys are the true dragon.  Only Dany shares a soul with this dragon.  It's the metaphorical comet with a flaming red sword.  The red comet arrives on the day of her rebirth from salt tears and smoke in MMD's tent. 

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

She was walking down a long hall beneath high stone arches. She could not look behind her, must not look behind her. There was a door ahead of her, tiny with distance, but even from afar, she saw that it was painted red. She walked faster, and her bare feet left bloody footprints on the stone.

"You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?"

She saw sunlight on the Dothraki sea, the living plain, rich with the smells of earth and death. Wind stirred the grasses, and they rippled like water. Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. "Home," she whispered as he entered her and filled her with his seed, but suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame.

, do you?" dragon the wake"… don't want to

Ser Jorah's face was drawn and sorrowful. "Rhaegar was the last dragon," he told her. He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals. One moment he was there and the next he was fading, his flesh colorless, less substantial than the wind. "The last dragon," he whispered, thin as a wisp, and was gone. She felt the dark behind her, and the red door seemed farther away than ever.

"… don't want to wake the dragon, do you?"

Viserys stood before her, screaming. "The dragon does not beg, slut. You do not command the dragon. I am the dragon, and I will be crowned." The molten gold trickled down his face like wax, burning deep channels in his flesh. "I am the dragon and I will be crowned!" he shrieked, and his fingers snapped like snakes, biting at her nipples, pinching, twisting, even as his eyes burst and ran like jelly down seared and blackened cheeks.

"… don't want to wake the dragon …"

The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run.

…" dragon the wake"… don't want to

She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo's copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.

"… want to wake the dragon …"

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

"… wake the dragon …"

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

…"the dragon"…

 

 

This is also the first attempt to forge the sword Lightbringer in water.  Drogo who would be Dany's instrument or sword submerged in a bath of water and split in two.  

If Dany is the true dragon, Jon is the true sword. He doesn't come down the bloodline through Aerys or Rhaegar; but from another of Jaehaerys' lines through the Baratheons.  He has more of the north in him and less of the dragon.

The prophecies are a mashup:

- Dany is reborn amidst salt tears and smoke, the comet appears on the day of her rebirth

- Jon is born at the saltpans among smoking beehives; the sleeping lion nearly torn in two (Azor Ahai plunged his sword into the heart of a lion and it split in two)

- Jon will be resurrected from saltwater in the smokehouse at the Wall

 

[Prof. Cecily]

On 3/22/2017 at 6:17 PM, Black Crow said:

Aaaah... 

You have obviously never slept under a full moon on top of the great barrow itself - Silbury Hill - or walked in the other magic places of Britain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silbury_Hill

 

Lucky you!

Britain has many barrows; I once spent a winter hunting them out.

Spain also has some amazing barrows, starting with the barrow of Antequera 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolmen_of_Menga