Did Walder Frey even have a choice?

[devilish]

28 minutes ago, Protagoras said:

So, your argument hinges on your evaluation on Tywin Lannister. And said evaluation have been questioned harshly by other posters. I tend to agree that Tywin acting like this is very much out of of character and that your picture of Tywin is simply very wrong.

What Tywin always do is to punish the front runner, the leader. And that is not Walder. Tywin know that Walder is a riverlord and it is expected for him to follow his liege Hoster - which Tywin have recently attacked. Now, he might had hoped that Late Lord Frey would earn his name again, but there was no reason for Tywin to assume that he had a friend in the lord of the crossing. Since there were no alliance in the first place, there can´t have been a treasonous backstab and broken promises - can it. And while it certainly would have costed Walder money and hostages (like all losers in a war), Walder do have the advantage of his forces intact and not captured. 

You are completely mistaking people spitting in Tywins face (Aerys, the Reynes) with people acting what is normally expected on them (Freys, Stormlords). And this is true for Tyrion too. Compare with his trial. Many witnesses, but only Shae "made it personal" and Tyrion seems to have little ill will vs the rest of them. You don´t draw the lions tail just by showing opposition. You annoy the lion by acting disrespectful and by making it personal. Walder never did. The person Tywin blame for the Genna-marriage is of course his weak father Tytos who accepted it. By true feudal logic - the problem is not the people using the dummy, the problem is the dummy. And Walder did show respect - he wanted a Lannister daughter after all. This is not really the same thing as snubbing the Lannister marriage suggestion to Aerys. 

If Tywin punishes only the front runner then how come he left his dog to ravage the riverlands + Elia Martell. Neither of them are front runners. Same about the Tarbeck-Reynes massacre. Tywin showed no mercy to anyone.

I think that Tywin has two main characters

a- the cold and ridiculously cynical one. 
b- the vindictive one who can temporarly switch off A. 

If we assume that the red wedding never occurred then In both cases it made sense to make an example out of Walder Frey.

a- Kicking the old man out of his land made sense in terms of popularity (no one liked Walder), military strategy (appointing a Lannister puppet would cut off the North's only quick route to the Riverlands) and financially wise (ie he would get rid of Emmon Frey + someone with Lannister blood will end up with a gold mine)

b- The Lannisters take marriage ties seriously. Any house whose lucky to have one of their children marry a Lannister will enjoy all the perks Lannister gold and power brings. However that house must be careful never to betray the Lion. Or else they end up badly.

 

 

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

59 minutes ago, Protagoras said:

So, your argument hinges on your evaluation on Tywin Lannister.

Oh, it's not the argument's only problem. It presents Walder Frey's alleged motivation - which isn't there. We have several voices from the House Frey "justifying" the Red Wedding. Old Walder himself, Merrett, the three pie Freys: Jared, Symond, Rhaegar. That alleged fear of Tywin's harsh retribution? It isn't there.

Conversely, we had also several glimpses into the Lannister camp, courtesy of mainly Tyrion, but also Jaime. That proposed especially harsh feeling directed House Frey? That expectation of familial obligation? That need to make an example out of the family of "queen of the rebellion"? Nonexistent all. Not a single word along those lines, from Tywin, Jaime, Tyrion, Cersei, Kevan, Joffrey, or even Kevan's wife's bridge partners. And yes, the Castamere is remembered quite well, and gets some passing mentions now and then. Vargo Hoat, for example, was specifically singled out as a candidate for a Castamere treatment (correctly, as time proved). House Frey, however, were never mentioned in such context.

Bottom line, the theory that Walder Frey feared a harsh Lannister retribution has two main problems: the Freys don't know anything about it, and the Lannisters don't know anything about it. (Nobody else in the books knows anything about it, either).

[WSmith84]

As Ferocious Veldt Roarer pointed out, the Freys are related to families in most of the regions, including their own. So this notion that Tywin was expecting them to side with him is nonsense. Anyway, the part of the family that was Lannister (Genna's husband and children) did fight for Joffrey. So, familial duty fulfilled.

[marsyao]

13 hours ago, Boarsbane said:

The marriage agreement wasn't to make a Frey girl queen,

it would make a Frey girl queen after Robb was claimed as King of the North, that made House Frey rebel leader number 2, and this marriage would happen had Tywin not sabotaged it

[Universal Sword Donor]

23 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

As Ferocious Veldt Roarer pointed out, the Freys are related to families in most of the regions, including their own. So this notion that Tywin was expecting them to side with him is nonsense. Anyway, the part of the family that was Lannister (Genna's husband and children) did fight for Joffrey. So, familial duty fulfilled.

Pretty much, and the Lannister Freys sided with Tywin. The others sided with their families (insofar as we can well). 

I do love this topic of discussion. There are many valid viewpoints on whether or not, and I don't really want to hash that out. However to the OP, yes Walder absolutely did have options. When Robb is already dead and the RLers fight on, here is what Tywin says:

“Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.”

I'm sure it's already been mentioned or quoted before. Frey had already been served steel and fire (Freys captured, Stevron dead, Ser Pate dead, et al). Did Tywin massacre the Freys from the Green Fork? No he did not. They were ransomed, even Hosteen whose mother belong to House Crakehall, Tywin's bannerman.

The only real support comes from this: “I suppose you would have spared the boy and told Lord Frey you had no need of his allegiance? That would have driven the old fool right back into Stark’s arms and won you another year of war. ”

The issue with that is it pre-supposes only two options exist. Walder can merely sit behind his walls if he so chooses. Robb lacked the strength to take the Twins, even with the RLers. Just locking the gates and calling the banners forces Robb to march all the way down to the Ruby Ford, where he exposes himself to the crown forces with a very weakened army. At best he's chased up the KR to MC. At worst he gets caught exposed by the military might of the crown alliance. But long story short, Walder didn't want a third choice. He wanted vengeance or he wanted to be kowtowed to by Tywin (ie respect from a powerful house). Everything everyone says of him says as much.

 

[Bernie Mac]

1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Oh, it's not the argument's only problem. It presents Walder Frey's alleged motivation - which isn't there. We have several voices from the House Frey "justifying" the Red Wedding. Old Walder himself, Merrett, the three pie Freys: Jared, Symond, Rhaegar. That alleged fear of Tywin's harsh retribution? It isn't there.

 

It is. the little time we spend with the Freys between the Battle of Blackwater and them changing sides there is a very real fear of Tywin

 

• "We must not allow Lord Tywin to trap us here at Harrenhal," Ser Aenys Frey was saying as Arya filled the washbasin. A grey stooped giant of a man with watery red eyes and huge gnarled hands

 

• "I have been Lord Tywin's captive once," said Ser Hosteen, a husky man with a square face who was said to be the strongest of the Freys. "I have no wish to enjoy Lannister hospitality again."

 

 

• Ser Aenys shook his head stubbornly. "You do not know the Lannisters as we do, my lord. King Stannis thought that Lord Tywin was a thousand leagues away as well, and it undid him."

There is a very healthy fear of Tywin from the Freys in that short period between them being loyal to Robb and hearing of his marriage. 

 

There are three motivations for the Red Wedding, revenge, fear and ambition. I really don't think you can discount any of the three.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

17 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

It is. the little time we spend with the Freys between the Battle of Blackwater and them changing sides there is a very real fear of Tywin

• "We must not allow Lord Tywin to trap us here at Harrenhal," Ser Aenys Frey was saying as Arya filled the washbasin. A grey stooped giant of a man with watery red eyes and huge gnarled hands
• "I have been Lord Tywin's captive once," said Ser Hosteen, a husky man with a square face who was said to be the strongest of the Freys. "I have no wish to enjoy Lannister hospitality again."
• Ser Aenys shook his head stubbornly. "You do not know the Lannisters as we do, my lord. King Stannis thought that Lord Tywin was a thousand leagues away as well, and it undid him."

There is a very healthy fear of Tywin from the Freys in that short period between them being loyal to Robb and hearing of his marriage.

There is fear of Tywin from great many people. We were discussing whether the Freys had special, unique reasons to fear Tywin Lannister more than anyone else fighting for the wrong side. In your quote, however, they simply do not wish to spend time as POW's in Tywin's care. Manderly would certainly concur. But this has not been the point of this thread.

[Bernie Mac]

19 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

There is fear of Tywin from great many people. We were discussing whether the Freys had special, unique reasons to fear Tywin Lannister more than anyone else fighting for the wrong side.

And they do. Without the Freys Jaime would never have been captured  at Riverrun, thousands of Lannister vassals killed in the battle of the Whispering Woods and Camps and it was 1k cavalry Frey that joined the 5K Northern cavalry that paid the Lannisters back in kind. Stafford had been killed, we saw what happened to the last Houses that were involved with harming Stafford 40 years ago. 

The Starks and Tullys were both majorly punished for their deeds in that war, considering the Freys played a far bigger role than the Tulys it is not inconceivable that they too would have been harshly punished. 

Even the Brackens, who had been fighting for the Crown for the last six months and who done next to nothing in the Westerlands, still had to give away a hostage. 

Quote

 

In your quote, however, they simply do not wish to spend time as POW's in Tywin's care. Manderly would certainly concur.

It is not like there is a huge amount of data to pick from as there is literally a handful of pages between the Freys at Harrenhal learning of the Blackwater and them learning of Robb's betrayal. 

Though in that time they are scared of Tywin's retribution. Being in the Riverlands means they are going to be a much easier target for the Crown than Houses like the Manderlys or Umbers. 

Quote

But this has not been the point of this thread.

Not to be rude, but only the thread starter can say what this thread is about. If he feels that my contribution was not on topic then fair enough. 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

44 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

It is. the little time we spend with the Freys between the Battle of Blackwater and them changing sides there is a very real fear of Tywin

• "We must not allow Lord Tywin to trap us here at Harrenhal," Ser Aenys Frey was saying as Arya filled the washbasin. A grey stooped giant of a man with watery red eyes and huge gnarled hands
• "I have been Lord Tywin's captive once," said Ser Hosteen, a husky man with a square face who was said to be the strongest of the Freys. "I have no wish to enjoy Lannister hospitality again."
• Ser Aenys shook his head stubbornly. "You do not know the Lannisters as we do, my lord. King Stannis thought that Lord Tywin was a thousand leagues away as well, and it undid him."

There is a very healthy fear of Tywin from the Freys in that short period between them being loyal to Robb and hearing of his marriage. 

 

There are three motivations for the Red Wedding, revenge, fear and ambition. I really don't think you can discount any of the three.

You can very much discount fear. You literally just posted 3 quotes where Freys are bitching because they were tormented (probably) and eventually ransomed, not executed. They should fear Tywin if they don't bend the knee, but they have absolutely nothing to fear from Tywin if they bend the knee.

We know this because Tywin is perfectly willing to forgive RL houses who are still fighting after the Red Wedding:

“They should all be put to the sword,” Joffrey declared suddenly. “The Mallisters and Blackwoods and Brackens . . . all of them. ”

[...]

“Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.”

[WSmith84]

Even if Tywin was feeling particularly malicious, he'd have no cause to remove the Freys. The Lannister Freys stayed loyal to him, so he could simply demand that Walder make that particular branch his heirs in exchange for being welcomed back into the fold.

But Tywin generally seems pretty practical when his own pride isn't involved. As long as you don't prick that, you're good.

[Universal Sword Donor]

6 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

And they do. Without the Freys Jaime would never have been captured  at Riverrun, thousands of Lannister vassals killed in the battle of the Whispering Woods and Camps and it was 1k cavalry Frey that joined the 5K Northern cavalry that paid the Lannisters back in kind. Stafford had been killed, we saw what happened to the last Houses that were involved with harming Stafford 40 years ago. 

 

The Starks and Tullys were both majorly punished for their deeds in that war, considering the Freys played a far bigger role than the Tulys it is not inconceivable that they too would have been harshly punished. 

Even the Brackens, who had been fighting for the Crown for the last six months and who done next to nothing in the Westerlands, still had to give away a hostage. 

It is not like there is a huge amount of data to pick from as there is literally a handful of pages between the Freys at Harrenhal learning of the Blackwater and them learning of Robb's betrayal. 

Though in that time they are scared of Tywin's retribution. Being in the Riverlands means they are going to be a much easier target for the Crown than Houses like the Manderlys or Umbers. 

Not to be rude, but only the thread starter can say what this thread is about. If he feels that my contribution was not on topic then fair enough. 

 

1) The Frey prisoners were released after Tywin knew about Jaime being captured. We know this from both Tyrion's and Arya's POV chapters.

2) Giving away a hostage is a sight better than being extinguished almost in their entirety. How much does Walder value his family:

“A son for a son, heh,” he repeated. “But that’s a grandson . . . and he never was much use.”

“What do you have that I should fear? That son of yours? I’ll match you son for son, and I’ll still have eighteen when yours are all dead.”

Don't get me wrong. He clearly values his family otherwise he wouldn't keep them around. Keeping a hostage, however, is not a huge punishment when one stays loyal. Merely blocking Robb from using the Twins to go back North basically dooms his army if he tries to go North.

3) They fear being on the wrong side and feeling his wrath. When they abandon the Young Wolf, they are no longer actively opposing him. Merely bending the knee means they are on his side again, which remains a very appealing option. The Red Wedding wasn't Tywin's idea remember. They have an easy way out. They just don't take it.

[Nittanian]

4 hours ago, devilish said:

Tywin was against Tythos marrying his sister to a Frey

Genna was the only daughter of the Warden of the West, while Emmon was Walder's second son, behind Stevron, Walder's heir. Stevron went on to have three sons—Ryman, Jinglebell, and Walton— and Ryman then had three sons—Edwyn, Black Walder, and Petyr Pimple. It's possible Tywin may not have been as angered if Genna had instead been betrothed to Walder's first son, Stevron.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

Not to be rude, but only the thread starter can say what this thread is about.

Not to be rude, but he did. Every single of his posts was about how specifically bad the situation was for the poor Freys compared to anyone else.

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Not to be rude, but he did. Every single of his posts was about how specifically bad the situation was for the poor Freys compared to anyone else.

OP was predicated on Tywin twisting his arm to do the red wedding, whereas Tywin's words and actions make it clear he was taking advantage of an opportunity presented to him where none of the shit rolled back on him.

[Protagoras]

7 hours ago, devilish said:

If Tywin punishes only the front runner then how come he left his dog to ravage the riverlands + Elia Martell. Neither of them are front runners. Same about the Tarbeck-Reynes massacre. Tywin showed no mercy to anyone.

I think that Tywin has two main characters

a- the cold and ridiculously cynical one. 
b- the vindictive one who can temporarly switch off A. 

If we assume that the red wedding never occurred then In both cases it made sense to make an example out of Walder Frey.

a- Kicking the old man out of his land made sense in terms of popularity (no one liked Walder), military strategy (appointing a Lannister puppet would cut off the North's only quick route to the Riverlands) and financially wise (ie he would get rid of Emmon Frey + someone with Lannister blood will end up with a gold mine)

b- The Lannisters take marriage ties seriously. Any house whose lucky to have one of their children marry a Lannister will enjoy all the perks Lannister gold and power brings. However that house must be careful never to betray the Lion. Or else they end up badly.

 

 

Elia Martell was ravaged because of the feud with Aerys. She was insignificant in herself, but she and her kids were the object used to punish Aerys and his dynasty further. And Aerys had slighted Tywin in a most severe way. Walder on the other hand has not. As for ravaging the riverlands - that was to send a signal to Catelyn due to her kidnap. Another clear slight to the house

I agree that Tywin have a vindictive mode, but you clearly fail to understand the level of insults you need to trigger it and who Tywin sees as responsible for said insult. Not only are you putting Tywins vindictiveness at a value far too high (he is not a crazy maniac) but you fail to understand who is the subject for Tywins wrath and who is the object, who is punished in order to hurt and take revenge on the subject. You are in your own words putting too much focus on mode B and refuse to ignore the cold logic of A that Tywin often exhibits. I get that you don´t like him, but your portrayal is not even close to a fair one.

Waldar has (again) a strong castle, a decent army and has not been kidnapped in battle. Therefore it makes logical sense that Walders treatment would be something like that of Tytos Blackwood. At most, Tywin might insist that Emmon should be named heir, in order to secure for his sister. And taking that marriage tie seriously means just that, by helping Walder up on his feet. "Kicking the old man out" would destroy Gennas value - after all, she is already married and to secure her position he want to promote Emmon, not the opposite. Otherwise, Emmon would never have gotten Riverrun if Tywin had these feelings. In that case he would have made it clear to Walder that any of his kin BUT Emmon would get Riverrun, just to make that point. But he didn´t. Again, Tywin blame Tytos for this - not Walder.

Even if said house "betray" the lion (The Freys never did, btw) they will have an advantage. Destroying them would send the signal to other houses that marrying a Lannister might not carrying any benefit whatsoever, and that is not a message Tywin want to send. Neither the Reynes nor the Tarbecks had Lannister marriage. Nor had Aerys. So, I am betting that the Freys, in such a scenario, would get one of the more lenient peaces in the region. And escpecially if the help attack Robb - something Walder should be very willing to do.

I think you clearly misunderstand Tywin in general and what it means to promote family. I also wonder if your definition of "slighted" is the same as the rest of this forum.

[Protagoras]

7 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Oh, it's not the argument's only problem. It presents Walder Frey's alleged motivation - which isn't there. We have several voices from the House Frey "justifying" the Red Wedding. Old Walder himself, Merrett, the three pie Freys: Jared, Symond, Rhaegar. That alleged fear of Tywin's harsh retribution? It isn't there.

Conversely, we had also several glimpses into the Lannister camp, courtesy of mainly Tyrion, but also Jaime. That proposed especially harsh feeling directed House Frey? That expectation of familial obligation? That need to make an example out of the family of "queen of the rebellion"? Nonexistent all. Not a single word along those lines, from Tywin, Jaime, Tyrion, Cersei, Kevan, Joffrey, or even Kevan's wife's bridge partners. And yes, the Castamere is remembered quite well, and gets some passing mentions now and then. Vargo Hoat, for example, was specifically singled out as a candidate for a Castamere treatment (correctly, as time proved). House Frey, however, were never mentioned in such context.

Bottom line, the theory that Walder Frey feared a harsh Lannister retribution has two main problems: the Freys don't know anything about it, and the Lannisters don't know anything about it. (Nobody else in the books knows anything about it, either).

Yeah, and this could easily be compared with the Reyne-Tarbeck situation. While Tywin destroyed them, he made no other moves apart from repayment on the other Westerland houses who treated the lion with disrespect. Why? Because if you take down the ringleaders there is no real reason to punish the rabble. And that is Walder. So of course neither the Freys and the Lannisters knew about it becuase it was never going to happen.

I agree that there are many problem with the OPs post. For me the largest one is his misunderstanding on how Tywin think. That is where I put my focus.

[Kaibaman]

16 minutes ago, Protagoras said:

Elia Martell was ravaged because of the feud with Aerys. She was insignificant in herself, but she and her kids were the object used to punish Aerys and his dynasty further. And Aerys had slighted Tywin in a most severe way. Walder on the other hand has not. As for ravaging the riverlands - that was to send a signal to Catelyn due to her kidnap. Another clear slight to the house

I agree that Tywin have a vindictive mode, but you clearly fail to understand the level of insults you need to trigger it and who Tywin sees as responsible for said insult. Not only are you putting Tywins vindictiveness at a value far too high (he is not a crazy maniac) but you fail to understand who is the subject for Tywins wrath and who is the object, who is punished in order to hurt and take revenge on the subject. You are in your own words putting too much focus on mode B and refuse to ignore the cold logic of A that Tywin often exhibits. I get that you don´t like him, but your portrayal is not even close to a fair one.

Waldar has (again) a strong castle, a decent army and has not been kidnapped in battle. Therefore it makes logical sense that Walders treatment would be something like that of Tytos Blackwood. At most, Tywin might insist that Emmon should be named heir, in order to secure for his sister. And taking that marriage tie seriously means just that, by helping Walder up on his feet. "Kicking the old man out" would destroy Gennas value - after all, she is already married and to secure her position he want to promote Emmon, not the opposite. Otherwise, Emmon would never have gotten Riverrun if Tywin had these feelings. In that case he would have made it clear to Walder that any of his kin BUT Emmon would get Riverrun, just to make that point. But he didn´t. Again, Tywin blame Tytos for this - not Walder.

Even if said house "betray" the lion (The Freys never did, btw) they will have an advantage. Destroying them would send the signal to other houses that marrying a Lannister might not carrying any benefit whatsoever, and that is not a message Tywin want to send. Neither the Reynes nor the Tarbecks had Lannister marriage. Nor had Aerys. So, I am betting that the Freys, in such a scenario, would get one of the more lenient peaces in the region. And escpecially if the help attack Robb - something Walder should be very willing to do.

I think you clearly misunderstand Tywin in general and what it means to promote family. I also wonder if your definition of "slighted" is the same as the rest of this forum.

We should also keep in mind that Tywin was pissed at the Martells as he felt they had muzzled him out of a marriage between Cersei and Rhaegar. He somewhat puts the blame for that on Elia's mother and no doubt took it out on her daughter and grandchildren.

[Lord Wraith]

On 2/28/2017 at 1:06 PM, Boarsbane said:

There is nothing to suggest Tywin was particularly mad at Walder for siding with Robb, it's purely your own invention. The Westerlings sided with Robb too even though they were his own bannermen, did he massacre them for it? 

Yes because the Spicers plotted with Tywin to drug Robb and make him sleep with Jeyne. Being the descendants of Maggy the Frog has its perks.

19 hours ago, devilish said:

All riverland houses were loyal to their LP + their sons were not married to a Lannister. Walder is an opportunist whose choice costed the Lannisters a defeat, the Riverlands and Jamie's sword arm. That despite Walder's son had been living on Lannister wealth for years.

The Freys are extremely unpopular in the Riverlands and the twins is a gold mine with strategic military importance. A Lannister puppet would basically end the North's hope of a quick incursion to the Riverlands. Having Walder out would not only increase Tywin's fear factor and would gift the crown with a sort of mini reverse Moat Cailin but would also garner the crown popularity points among those who hate the Freys. 

 

Agreed one of the reasons I think Bolton made a somewhat good decision with the Freys. He will probably never have the support of the Reeds. So having Frey as a stand in makes sense. Anyone trying to take the Moat with the Twins on their flank is going to have a hard time.

11 hours ago, The Wolves said:

The Manderlys get their income from silver mines and control one the country's only five cities plus are importing multiple products and trading with various cities and Essos for their income. 

The Freys control a bridge. They may be rich but Robb's richest bannermen they are not.  

Agreed. Manderely's have a city and a dominant control of the trade in South Eastern regions of the North. They would be richer than the Frey's.

[devilish]

16 hours ago, Nittanian said:

Genna was the only daughter of the Warden of the West, while Emmon was Walder's second son, behind Stevron, Walder's heir. Stevron went on to have three sons—Ryman, Jinglebell, and Walton— and Ryman then had three sons—Edwyn, Black Walder, and Petyr Pimple. It's possible Tywin may not have been as angered if Genna had instead been betrothed to Walder's first son, Stevron.

In theory you're right, although TBH, lesser houses were able to find better matchups then Stevron Frey. 

[devilish]

18 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Pretty much, and the Lannister Freys sided with Tywin. The others sided with their families (insofar as we can well). 

I do love this topic of discussion. There are many valid viewpoints on whether or not, and I don't really want to hash that out. However to the OP, yes Walder absolutely did have options. When Robb is already dead and the RLers fight on, here is what Tywin says:

“Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.”

I'm sure it's already been mentioned or quoted before. Frey had already been served steel and fire (Freys captured, Stevron dead, Ser Pate dead, et al). Did Tywin massacre the Freys from the Green Fork? No he did not. They were ransomed, even Hosteen whose mother belong to House Crakehall, Tywin's bannerman.

The only real support comes from this: “I suppose you would have spared the boy and told Lord Frey you had no need of his allegiance? That would have driven the old fool right back into Stark’s arms and won you another year of war. ”

The issue with that is it pre-supposes only two options exist. Walder can merely sit behind his walls if he so chooses. Robb lacked the strength to take the Twins, even with the RLers. Just locking the gates and calling the banners forces Robb to march all the way down to the Ruby Ford, where he exposes himself to the crown forces with a very weakened army. At best he's chased up the KR to MC. At worst he gets caught exposed by the military might of the crown alliance. But long story short, Walder didn't want a third choice. He wanted vengeance or he wanted to be kowtowed to by Tywin (ie respect from a powerful house). Everything everyone says of him says as much.

 

The Lannister Frey had no choice. Emmon Frey was in CR, living off on Lannister's wealth.

Another issue that is being ignored is in fact Walder Frey. The man can be described in many ways but he's neither a brave man nor someone who doesn't have a thick skin. He's a very cautious man, who will value every option to him. When Robert rebelled, he stayed out of it till the very end and that despite being surrounded by rebels. Because of it, he was a target of Hoster's insults and slights for years and yet he never reacted to them. Walder is also a great negotiator. He orchestrated Emmon's marriage tie with Genna Lannister and he took Robb to the cleaners. 

 

So it comes with great surprise that someone whose so cautious would commit himself to such hideous act that attracted the hatred of at least 3 regions. His lands weren't increased, he wasnt given the role of LP and no Lannister/Baratheon ended up marrying a Frey. Jamie even promises Edmure that he will bring Roslin to CR which means that the Lannisters would soon have a Frey as possible hostage. Surely some might say that Emmon Frey ended up with Riverrun. However Emmon fought against his father during the war so he was hardly his dad's favourite. He was also a puppet in Genna's hands and his children were raised in CR, so they were probably only Freys by name. Why would Walder do such hideous act then? Maybe he didn't had a choice?