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Bakker XLVII: Eär-War - A Nomen of Onomatopoeic Omen


.H.

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43 minutes ago, Pino Proxy said:

Alright. After rereading the description of the interior of the Incu Holoinas, I suppose that so long as I get the general idea I'll be satisfied.

Personally, I think spiral horizon's art is really awesome.  Probably best to finish the series and then check it out though.  Only one or two I'd consider spoilers at all but I'd hate to be that guy.  

The IF is mentioned in the books (pretty sure) buts it's definitely mentioned in the  short story  The False Sun.  It's the Inchoroi's proof of damnation, that convinces Earwans to join the Consult.  What that actually means is much speculated.  The False Sun is a must read and probably the most accessible Atrocity Tale.

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47 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

What is the hell is the inverse fire? I keep seeing that phrase pop up in discussions, but I cannot for the life of me remember reading it. Was it from one of the short stories or did I miss something big during my first read through?

There is only one mention of it in TTT, though the skin-spies called it the "Inverse Flame" which Scott retconned to Inverse Fire because he thought it sounded better.

Though it is not referred to as such, the ceiling of flame that Achamian sees at the very end of The Great Ordeal is most certainly the Inverse Fire.

Yeah, if you have not read "The False Sun", Kraken, you've missed most of the discourse about the Inverse Fire.

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21 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

*rolls eyes*

Well, how would you feel if you was tasked with creating some hype for the fan base and was summarily shot down for your efforts? He was just trying to get some excitement and chatter going without spoiling us at the same time. But, it wasn't enough or it wasn't good enough. Same shit, different day on the Net.

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1 hour ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said:

Well, how would you feel if you was tasked with creating some hype for the fan base and was summarily shot down for your efforts? He was just trying to get some excitement and chatter going without spoiling us at the same time. But, it wasn't enough or it wasn't good enough. Same shit, different day on the Net.

He literally asked for feedback. Which we gave. 

But really, here's the deal - as one of the people who gets to read it early in order to hopefully drum up good feedback, what some asshats on the internet think just isn't that big a deal. Especially given that we are at best an extremely vocal small minority, and in theory there are a lot more fans out there that care a lot more deeply about it. 

I mean, sure, I prefer him staying silent to outright lying about what he's read and misleading otherwise, but if (and I say that with a big if - I don't think he quit because of us) he decided to stop doing things because he got negative feedback the main person that he's hurting is Bakker, who needs as much help as he can get.

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Wait. now I'm a bit confused. I thought madness was the one that read TGO early and lies his ass off about it?

I don't remember bakkerfans getting ridiculed. You want ridicule start a thread about how much you love Goodkind or Vox Day or something, (Or about how Red Sister featuring a female main character is pandering to SJWs, haha no really check that thread out its funny). THAT'S ridicule.

Also was he actually ASKED to drum up hype? I thought that was something he decided to do on his own?

And don't be silly Kalbear this is the most important forum in the history of the world and only our opinion on things matter *rolls eyes*

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4 hours ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

What is the hell is the inverse fire? I keep seeing that phrase pop up in discussions, but I cannot for the life of me remember reading it. Was it from one of the short stories or did I miss something big during my first read through?

Precisely.

basically, for half a decade fans had nothing to talk about other than the short story "the false sun "

that story concerns itself primarily with the inverse fire, a topic that has not really ever been addressed in any of the five books (and is only obliquely glimpsed in the sixth book to no discernible reaction nor effect)

fans theorized that this was the key to all things and everything in the series, despite, you know, never really being present in the series.

since reading the sixth book it occurred to me that Bakker has no idea people have put everything on this information (like the gopher, "I'm not in the book") and so I fully expect there to be little of nothing about it in the next book as I don't think it's something that really registers for the author as even a thing to write about.

we did this to ourselves y'all the inverse fire will be a big puddle of nothing.

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IF is a more convincing information source, I'd speculate. Like the Torturer thought he had a little hidey room where his bad things were hidden from the Eternal Torture Machines gaze. He was running off limited information.  IF would probably show him full information. Also their attempts at oblivion - merely speculative. IF would probably show them where the ETM is sending them. I'm guessing its some kind of near death experience.

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So I have a theory about Inri Sejenus.Sorry if someone thought of this one before.

1- The apocalypse ended in Mengedda 2055, Sejenus was born in Shimeh 2059.

2- The Apocalypse was, of course quite a big event yet Sejenus' teachings does not make a single mention of it.... Guess who will benefit out of the world forgetting the Apocalypse? 

3- Also his teachings are also based off the Tusk, which we know that it is written by A&A

Which leads us to the conclusion that Sejenus was somehow in league with The Consult. Just a theory, it is probably wrong but I thought it was interesting to share.

Edit: just saw a post from @Michael Seswatha Jordan that reminded me of something. The Inrithi says that whores are damned yet Mimara isn't... So unless the JE always sees it's holder as holy, that means that Inrithism is false. Unlike Angeshraël who was deceived,Fane probably wanted revenge from the people who banished him after he failed to be the new Inri Sejenis, Seja also must also have had ulterior motives to preach a religion He knew to be false.

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6 hours ago, lokisnow said:

fans theorized that this was the key to all things and everything in the series, despite, you know, never really being present in the series.

Well, I am probably chiefly guilty of this, because the idea of the IF just intrigues me, so I tend to drag things into it/it into other things.

7 hours ago, lokisnow said:

we did this to ourselves y'all the inverse fire will be a big puddle of nothing.

Well, I don't think it's nothing, but I don't think it will be something major.  Somewhere in between, where it is simply a part of what we learn about the Inchoroi/Consult.  I think the the Inverse Fire parts of The False Sun are the "spoilers" we were warned about, since really nothing of the rest of the story is at all spoilerish.

6 hours ago, Triskan said:

But we're also shown Nonmen society which suggests they've been quite afraid of damnation for a long time, so why is the IF necessary?  Do we have any textual evidence on whether the Nonman fear of damnation precedes the arkfall?

There certainly was a break, post Womb-Plauge, not just because all the women died, but because they went from lifespans that nearly outstripped their memory to ones that far outrunning it.  I attempted to discuss this, but like usual I think I was just rambling around some quotes.

Anecodtal evidence would seem, to me, to point to the fact that they did worry about it.  A great deal.  The wright-in-the-mountain tells Cleric:

Quote

"Damnation-shun, Cousin-sin. How-How? How-How could-could we-we forget-get?"

I don't really think this was something that was caused by the Inverse Fire.  Also:

Quote

Oinaral shrugged. “We have spurned your infernal Gods … and we have sinned.”

“Pfah!” the youth spat. “What do we care for Gods?”

“But the Hells—we do care for them. The paths to Oblivion are few—as tight as the arrow’s notch, Emilidis would say. Tell me, Son of Harweel, who is to decide when these wretches should hazard damnation?”

Again, I have my doubts that such thoughts are Inverse Fire created.

Quote

“Silence … Why?”

Oinaral’s face tightened.

“Oblivion,” he said. “It is where we would hide, if we could.”

Oinaral doesn't seem to have ever seen the Inverse Fire, so his feelings on this are probably not driven by it.  Rather, I think he speaks of the "old way" of thinking, how the way out of damnation is through oblivion.

So, to return to the question:

7 hours ago, Triskan said:

But we're also shown Nonmen society which suggests they've been quite afraid of damnation for a long time, so why is the IF necessary?

Well, the Inverse Fire probably predates Arkfall by a very long time, if not predating the Inchoroi themselves (which is a whole different can of worms).  As such, I don't know that they Inverse Fire is a necessity, but rather a mixture of a fact and a tool.  The Inverse Fire is proof that damnation is real, that it is imminent, and that it is horrific.

I believe it was @profgrape who had the idea that the IF might even be, for Nonmen, a method of remembering.  Expanding on that, if the soul is a ledger, then perhaps the IF shows you the toll of that litany in plain sight.  In this way, it can keep you focused, a paining reminder of what awaits you.  Like the Wright says, "how could they have forgotten?" the Inverse Fire is a view into their own souls, one not so easily forgotten.

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1 hour ago, .H. said:

I believe it was @profgrape who had the idea that the IF might even be, for Nonmen, a method of remembering.  Expanding on that, if the soul is a ledger, then perhaps the IF shows you the toll of that litany in plain sight.  In this way, it can keep you focused, a paining reminder of what awaits you.  Like the Wright says, "how could they have forgotten?" the Inverse Fire is a view into their own souls, one not so easily forgotten.

Yes, the idea is that the Erratics allied with Golgatterath won't be nearly as compromised as we expect them to be.  As @.H. writes, by exposing the Erratics to the horrors of damnation, the Inverse Fire acts as a sort of grounding therapy.

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12 hours ago, Kalbear said:

He literally asked for feedback. Which we gave. 

But really, here's the deal - as one of the people who gets to read it early in order to hopefully drum up good feedback, what some asshats on the internet think just isn't that big a deal. Especially given that we are at best an extremely vocal small minority, and in theory there are a lot more fans out there that care a lot more deeply about it. 

I mean, sure, I prefer him staying silent to outright lying about what he's read and misleading otherwise, but if (and I say that with a big if - I don't think he quit because of us) he decided to stop doing things because he got negative feedback the main person that he's hurting is Bakker, who needs as much help as he can get.

He asked for feedback after he was criticized for his teasers. 

@Darth Richard, MG is Bakkerfans not Madness. I'm not even sure Madness has read TUC, he might've  I don't know. Anyway, I was just saying that the reason MG hasn't gave anymore teasers is because of the criticism he got about it. I assume. He's been pretty silent lately even at SA. 

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@ ANATURINBOR - RESPONDED!

@ LOKISNOW - YES!  THERE WILL BE ARCS BUT I DON’T YET KNOW WHEN

@ DR2 - I HAVEN’T GOT TO THE BLACK SEMEN PART IN BOTW YET—NOT LOOKING FORWARD TO MEETING GANONDORF I GUESS

@ MSJ - MSJ CARES! <3  I’VE GOT THIS HORRIBLE

D I V O R C E

THING GOING ON SO I AM AS INCONSISTENT AS I AM

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