Trying to Explain the Weird Rewind at the Bridge of Dream

[Lost Melnibonean]

This topic never gets enough attention. Here's my old thread if you want to see what was said a few years ago. 

The Sorrows are filled with fog, a sorcerous fog according to Ysilla. She advised that many boats had been lost in some kind of Bermuda Triangle like phenomenon with restless spirits in the air and tormented souls below the water. Tyrion suggested one of the tormented souls was manifested in a huge stone hand reaching from the water with the tops of two fingers rising above the surface. Was this a natural object that looked like a hand or was it a submerged sculpture? And was there some hint in the object being a hand rather than a head or a sword or something else?

According to legend Garin a prince of the Rhoynish had led a huge army against the Valyrians at Chroyane but they defeated his army and captured him and hung him in a golden cage. He called on the great river to destroy them. The river rose and drowned the invaders. The legend suggested that the Valyrian corpses under the water cause the fog and that a reincarnated Garin leads the stone men as the Shrouded Lord. And Ysilla suggests that the Valyrian corpses walk among the stone men. The current Shrouded Lord was a corsair from the Basilisk Isles, whose native inhabitants have dark skin.

Here is a link to an excerpt from the WOIAF regarding The war between the Valyrians and the Rhoynar...

http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/World_of_Ice_and_Fire_Excerpt_The_Rhoynar

After the stone hand and a few more landmarks they encountered another boat called the Kingfisher. Was there a hint in that name? As they approached the bridge the first time Griff advised that the stone men were not likely to molest them, just to wail at them. Haldon noted that their boat would be hidden by the fog and Tyrion noted that many of the stone men would be blind. As they passed under the bridge that first time the stone men moaned and muttered Most took no more notice of the Shy Maid than of a drifting log.

Immediately after they passed Young Griff confronted Tyrion about Young Griff being everything. At the end of about two minutes worth of conversation, Tyrion revealed his own identity, Griffs identity, and Young Griffs presumed identity. Griff tells him to be quiet and then, shazam, theyre back at the stone hand going in for another run under the bridge.

They passed several of the landmarks Tyrion noticed the first time but they did not pass the Kingfisher. This time a few of the stone men were pointing down at them, And three jumped down to molest them. The first landed on the cabin roof, the second by the tiller. The second was near Ysilla and Duck. Duck knocked him into the water immediately. Griff attacked the other as soon as soon as he came down from the cabin. He was trapped but drew Griff, Duck, Haldon, and Yandry to drive him off the boat.

A third stone man caught them by surprise. Tyrion assumed he was a Summer Islander because of his dark skin, but a corsair from the Basilisk Isles would have had dark skin too. This stone man reached for Young Griff who had just been revealed by Tyrion to be (or presumed to be) the son of Rhaegar Targaryen. He would have taken Young Griff who appeared paralyzed by fear or shock but Tyrion drove him over the side of the boat.

So, Im guessing that Martin was telling the reader that the Shrouded Lord was the reincarnation of Garin and that Garins spirit heard Tyrion reveal that Young Griff was a Targaryen of old Valyria. Through some supernatural power Garins spirit caused the Shy Maids weird rewind so he could capture Young Griff.

Alternatively, perhaps the spirits of old Valyria under the water heard Tyrion but sensed Young Griffs true identity as a Blackfyre, caused the weird rewind, and sent the Shrouded Lord to capture him.

[Praetor Xyn]

I've heard a near identical theory where the Shrouded Lord was Gerion Lannister because he spared Tyrion. Not sure either is correct, but I do think the Shrouded Lord was responsible for the odd rewind.

Incidentally there are other instances of characters seeming to lose time, usually while the moon is out. Not sure that's connected but it might be.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Praetor Xyn said:

I've heard a near identical theory where the Shrouded Lord was Gerion Lannister because he spared Tyrion. Not sure either is correct, but I do think the Shrouded Lord was responsible for the odd rewind.

Incidentally there are other instances of characters seeming to lose time, usually while the moon is out. Not sure that's connected but it might be.

Tyrion did not lose time, he gained time. 

[The Fattest Leech]

I have no idea, so I am going to just speculate.

Memory, Sorrow, Thorn. A homage to a favorite author of his??? The Valyrian bones under the water remember (memory), as Tyrion does the dragon(s) reveal over the Sorrows waters, and then Tyrion has to always prick his finger to see if he has the curse (thorn). We did get Ser Patrek of King's Mountain.

• Definitely. I was a huge fan of Tad's MEMORY, SORROW, AND THORN -- in fact, I doubt I would ever have written my own series without the inspiration his provided. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/970

Or, this is another one of GRRM's personal themes he uses across several of his earlier works. He does this in House of the Worm and it was also another creepy, eery scene.

Now I want to look into it more to see if there is something I am overlooking? I agree that this is under discussed.

[hiemal]

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

So, Im guessing that Martin was telling the reader that the Shrouded Lord was the reincarnation of Garin and that Garins spirit heard Tyrion reveal that Young Griff was a Targaryen of old Valyria. Through some supernatural power Garins spirit caused the Shy Maids weird rewind so he could capture Young Griff.

Alternatively, perhaps the spirits of old Valyria under the water heard Tyrion but sensed Young Griffs true identity as a Blackfyre, caused the weird rewind, and sent the Shrouded Lord to capture him.

I agree, and I think the time rewind was through the intervention of Mother Rhoyne either on the Shrouded Lord's behalf or to learn the truth of this so-called dragon using him as her agent.

[Praetor Xyn]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Tyrion did not lose time, he gained time. 

I wasn't referring to Tyrion though. Catelyn looks at the moon and goes into a daze, then seems to come back to herself hours later and releases Jaime. There are other examples but that's the one that sticks out to me.

I brought it up as people either losing time might be related to Tyrion gaining time. I doubt it is, as I think losing time is being caused by glass candles, but it could be.

[Walda]

This chapter was a highlight of my first read of ADwD. I was so tired when I started it, words seemed to be just falling in a litter on the floor of my brain as they came to my eyes, I was nodding off and re-reading lines and thinking maybe I should just go to bed. And then this. It was riveting, even in the state I was in, a vivid scene that stuck with me, even after For the Watch.

I thought the time dilation thing was a direct lift from the Lord of the Rings, where Tolkien has (at least) two motes of First Age Middle-Earth that can be reached (by Frodo and co, at least) in Third Age Middle-Earth. The first was across the Withywindle, in the Dingle, the lands of Tom Bombadil and the barrow-wrights, and seems to end at the boundry dike shortly before the East Road, that Bombadil tells them marks the end to an old kingdom in Arnor (Cardolan?), although from later information it seems likely the boundary pre-dates the kingdom, and Arnor, and even Eriador.

The second was between the Nimrodel and the Anduin, Galadriel's Lothlorien. Time passes slower there, we are told, and powers that have vanished from the rest of middle-earth linger. It is understood that the powers of the Elven rings and the One ring have some kind of protective influence (and indeed, even the rings of the mortal men grant a kind of immortality, allowing Kings from the past to influence the present) but there is an older spell or power that kept these places above the seas when others were destroyed by Godly Wrath. Arwen's story suggests that after the Ring Bearers had left, the Straight Road to Aman was lost and the seas bent forever, and the power that had kept Lorien on first age time faded, or collapsed like an eddy in the flow, leaving Arwen an ordinary, but rather beautiful forest to die in. Both of them protect the Hobbits from Sauron's forces in their own way.

The battles of the Valyrians and the Rhoynar in Essos, and of the first men and the elemental gods of Westeros, have echos of second and first age goings-on in Middle-Earth. So I assumed the Bridge was a place where ancient sorceries still had power. It never occurred to me that there was anything or anyone on the Shy Maid that had disturbed those forces, but now you mention the Kingfisher, it does seem a bit fishy.  And logically, it would be Valyrian blood (not necessarily Targaryen blood, but very likely dragon-rider blood) or news of the same, that had Garon grab Tyrion and Griff, laughing at one, and giving the other greyscale. I'm not sure if he cared about Aegon, as he didn't touch him directly. On the other hand, Tyrion has won Aegon's trust by the time he reaches Selhorys, and proves himself a powerful rather than a good counsellor, when he advises Aegon to turn West with the Golden Company and conquer Westeros before seeking an alliance with Daenarys. And giving the already hasty Griffin a greyscale deadline (literally deadline) might have gone a long way to committing him to this unwise strategy. Maybe, the spirit of Garin was utilising his limited powers very cleverly against Aegon. Or Daenarys.

Maybe it is because I am writing this post when I really should be exercising my limited powers on one about the Trident between the Ruby Ford and the Saltpans, but there seems to be a lot of parallels between Garin and Stoneheart, as far as mists and unseasonal floods are concerned, and also between the Trident and the Rhoynar. The mouth of the Trident is lousy with Targaryen sorceries, thanks to Visenya and Dragonstone, but there are clearly older powers, Gods of Storm, and river, and mist, and mud (I'm thinking of the storms of the bay, and the unseasonal floods, and on the North bank of the Greenfork, the Neck, that seems to be still full of mist and mud magics) and the Old Gods (there is still a detectable wiernet through the riverlands eg. the young and thriving weirwood at the whispers, the stump that Jaime dreamt on before rescuing Brienne from Harrenhal, and possibly the one he had his hand cut off on near Maidenpool, the Gods Eye, the cave of the BwB near Stoney Sept, and on the north bank of the Green Fork, the Neck is full of mud and mist and river with eeire effects, and crannogmen who still remember how these ancient powers work, that are strongly accused by the Freys of sorcery. 

As to the 'oh no, not magic, not space-time dilation' protest [ETA: by @Yeade, in the older thread], too late. From Chapter one, when Jon heard Ghost call to him, from the prologue, where Will had sensed in the bad weather, the cold wind, the trees that rustled like living things (GRRM, or at least, Will, seeming to think that trees are not living things), the gaze of something cold and implacable that loved him not. What is warging but a kind of magic that allows one to enter the conciousness of another? And there are strong hints that the Others that slayed Will and Waymar are the same ones that existed in the time of the Long Night, eight thousand years ago, before we learn anything about Targaryens and their not unmagical Dragons.

Turning Tyrion's encounter with Garin into a dream is a clever step - it leaves room for the skeptical to consider more explicable mechanisms for the return to the bridge, without confirming Garin's existence in the present, or invalidating the belief that he might.

A couple of Trident-Rhoynar parrallels: Mother Rhoyne runs where she will. And we know (from Septon Meribald) that the Inn at the Crossroads, the Inn of the Clanking Dragon, a black dragon turned red by the river, was once on the bank of the Trident, until the river turned away.

The other: At sunset at Nysar, when the Old Man of the River blesses Ysilla and Yandry, impresses Duck and Young Griff, and bellows in a way that reminds Tyrion of a War Horn (winded for himself and/or Young Griff?). Lemore was on deck, but might have missed seeing it, while Old Griff was not present (still asleep below?) and Haldon Half-maester was below ('with turtles crawling out of his arse' according to Tyrion).

Also, by the by, note that Lemore, Duck, and Tyrion have all put their heads under the waters of the Rhoyne that fine morning. And that Lemore notes, on Tyrion returning to the boat,

Quote

“You have a gift for making men smile,” Septa Lemore told Tyrion as he was drying off his toes. “You should thank the Father Above. He gives gifts to all his children.” (ADwD, Ch.14 Tyrion IV)

Anyway, it reminded me that Princess Arianne's greenblood friend Garin had explained the Old Man of the River to us earlier:

Quote

“The Old Man of the River is a lesser god,” said Garin. “He was born from Mother River too, and fought the Crab King to win dominion over all who dwell beneath the flowing waters.”(AFfC, Ch.21 The Queenmaker)

And it seems to me that the Celtigars, sworn to Dragonstone, claiming Crackclaw point, might have their claws cracked by a river deity from the Trident. (I've put this part very poorly, partly because I only just noticed the Dornish v Dragonstone references in the Brienne chapters of AFfC  today, and have been considering what they mean as I write up this post. Also I'm feeling a bit guilty about spending my precious Westeros time writing up this post, when the investigation of Brienne's travels along the Trident is part of an overdue reply to a poster in the other thread, that common courtesy demands I answer as promptly as I am able, rather than buying into this bright shiny thing with vague notions and suspicions of old spells and powers stirring now the Others and the dragons have awaken. So maybe the parallels between the Trident and the Rhoyne are only the attacks of my own guilty conscience.

[Seams]

I still think the "weird rewind" is not so much a time loop as an oxbow in the river that has closed in. I don't mean to detract from the symbolic importance, or to contradict any of the points about the Shrouded Lord - just to point out that GRRM might not have suddenly dropped a new element of magic into the plot.

GRRM has reminded us that rivers change shape: the inn at the crossroads used to be right on the riverbank, but is now 70 feet away from the water's edge.

The people on the Shy Maid are distracted after passing the stone men the first time. They may not notice that the boat has drifted into a branch of the main river. That branch is not really a branch but a loop that takes them back around and puts the boat back into the river below the ruins again. In another thread, someone pointed out that the river was at a high stage while the Shy Maid is under way, so an old oxbow might be flooded and temporarily reconnected to the new riverbed.

A river that changes shape and loops back on itself in places is an interesting metaphor for time.

7 hours ago, Walda said:

Also, by the by, note that Lemore, Duck, and Tyrion have all put their heads under the waters of the Rhoyne that fine morning. And that Lemore notes, on Tyrion returning to the boat,

Anyway, it reminded me that Princess Arianne's greenblood friend Garin had explained the Old Man of the River to us earlier:

“The Old Man of the River is a lesser god,” said Garin. “He was born from Mother River too, and fought the Crab King to win dominion over all who dwell beneath the flowing waters.”(AFfC, Ch.21 The Queenmaker)

And it seems to me that the Celtigars, sworn to Dragonstone, claiming Crackclaw point, might have their claws cracked by a river deity from the Trident.

I absolutely agree that the author intends us to draw parallels between the Trident and the Rhoyne. Flowing water is a central symbol in the books. (Including because of the flowing water in the walls of Winterfell and the wolf / flow duality.)

I would say that the Old Man of the River and the Crab King conflict could refer to Tyrion and Ser Alliser Thorne. When Tyrion participates in the crab feast with the officers of the Night's Watch, he calls dibs on Thorne's crab when the master at arms doesn't eat his portion of the special seafood delivered from Eastwatch. Alliser takes offense at Tyrion's whole flippant, fool-like tone at the meal and challenges Tyrion to a duel which Tyrion jokingly accepts but only if he can use his crab fork as his steel weapon.

[The Fattest Leech]

@Walda @Seams after my first post here I started looking in to this a tiny bit more and came to a few similar thoughts as you two, only your ideas are much more developed than mine got 

Also, a Shy Maid is passing the fingers on a river if time where stone men try to destroy her and then there is a fear of becoming a stone permanently. Hmmm, where have I heard this before?

[chrisdaw]

Bloodraven did it to try and kill Aegon because he is still fighting the Blackfyre rebellion. As he killed Serra by skinchanging grey plagued rats. Or he did it to purposely bring Garin's Curse, greyscale, to Westeros. Or both. In the end his meddling in time will cause the outbreak of greyscale on Westeros and mass death.

[Seams]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

@Walda @Seams after my first post here I started looking in to this a tiny bit more and came to a few similar thoughts as you two, only your ideas are much more developed than mine got 

Also, a Shy Maid is passing the fingers on a river if time where stone men try to destroy her and then there is a fear of becoming a stone permanently. Hmmm, where have I heard this before. 

You know, I bet we are supposed to compare the Winterfell crypt to a river, too, now that you bring up "becoming stone." All those Stark kings and lords "turned" to stone after they died, but the crypt seems to be built in the tunnels carved by geothermal, underground rivers that form pools and that provide the heating system within the walls of the castle.

[The Fattest Leech]

4 minutes ago, Seams said:

You know, I bet we are supposed to compare the Winterfell crypt to a river, too, now that you bring up "becoming stone." All those Stark kings and lords "turned" to stone after they died, but the crypt seems to be built in the tunnels carved by geothermal, underground rivers that form pools and that provide the heating system within the walls of the castle.

I only have a quick second because I have to head out to work for a few hours, but, the crypts are strange because the set up flows in the opposite direction of how we readers think, or expect, it should go. First you have to descend on twisting stone stairs which bring you to the older parts of the crypts first. It seems to make sense when you are just casually reading for the first time, but it has tripped readers up enough that there have been several topics started on this forum asking about the logic of this arrangement.

[Lord Varys]

I think this whole Shrouded Lord business is just going to be a mystery until such time as we get those Unfinished Tales Ran was talking about recently, containing the various versions of the Shrouded Lord chapter - a version where Tyrion met the man literally, possibly after getting lost in the Rhoyne in the wake of his heroics; another where the whole confrontation was supposed to happen entirely in a dream sequence - traces of that concept remain in the book where Tyrion briefly remembers having dreamed about the Shrouded while he was passed out.

And there are other hints that George reworked that particular section of ADwD quite extensively - Tyrion 6, the chapter in which Tyrion awakens, contains the cyvasse game and conversation between him and Aegon which originally took place in a completely different chapter, presumably only after they had teamed up with the Golden Company. Aegon indicates that he and Tyrion had spoken about his true identity at one point in the past when this whole Pisswater prince thing comes up when this is in fact completely impossible due to the fact that Tyrion last spoke to Aegon when he revealed that he knew who he was.

That leads me to the assumption that the Shrouded Lord chapter - regardless which version - actually contained another conversation about Aegon's identity and stuff - material that got lost and was only imperfectly reworked into the chapter that is now Tyrion 6. Connington 1 originally was Tyrion 7, it seems, with the brothel visit and Tyrion's abduction taking place in a later chapter, only after the decision to go west instead of east was made.

[ravenous reader]

14 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I have no idea, so I am going to just speculate.

...

Or, this is another one of GRRM's personal themes he uses across several of his earlier works. He does this in House of the Worm and it was also another creepy, eery scene.

Now I want to look into it more to see if there is something I am overlooking? I agree that this is under discussed.

Hi Leech -- could you please explain what he does in 'House of the Worm'?  

Although I haven't read it, I did a quick search and came across some very interesting text about obsidian, in addition to dozens of mentions of 'wormholes' and how 'time is arbitrary with the worm-children'...to once again confirm for me that --contrary to the groans of the 'time-travel,' 'time-dilation' or 'time-projection' (whatever you want to call it) detractors -- that GRRM is very interested in slipping in references to, and even dabbling in exploring, time travel in his work.  It also strikes me that the references to 'wormways' under Castle Black and the weirwoods as 'grave worms' might be subtle allusions to time travel -- the weirwood is the ultimate time-travel machine or wormhole.

Another name for a wormhole is an Einstein-Rosen bridge (it's both a 'bridge' and a 'tunnel' of sorts).  'Einstein' in German can be translated as 'one stone', so he's a 'stone man' who plays games with time and space!  Additionally, 'einstein' can also be a verb 'einstein(en)' meaning to enclose or surround with stone -- sounds like the process of greyscale to me...

Passing under the bridge of stonemen activated some kind of wormhole, hence the 'time rewind' phenomena in which Tyrion appeared to 'gain time'.

This is a cool article in which Stephen Hawking talks about time travel and wormholes.

In it, Hawking uses the analogy of time as a river which Bloodraven also uses:

Quote

Time flows like a river and it seems as if each of us is carried relentlessly along by time's current. But time is like a river in another way. It flows at different speeds in different places and that is the key to travelling into the future. This idea was first proposed by Albert Einstein over 100 years ago. He realised that there should be places where time slows down, and others where time speeds up. He was absolutely right. 

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw."

"A man must know how to look before he can hope to see," said Lord Brynden. "Those were shadows of days past that you saw, Bran. You were looking through the eyes of the heart tree in your godswood. Time is different for a tree than for a man. Sun and soil and water, these are the things a weirwood understands, not days and years and centuries. For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak. And the weirwood … a thousand human years are a moment to a weirwood, and through such gates you and I may gaze into the past."

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion V

No one said a word. The Shy Maid moved with the current. Her sail had not been raised since she first entered the Sorrows. She had no way to move but with the river. Duck stood squinting, clutching his pole with both hands. After a time even Yandry stopped pushing. Every eye was on the distant light. As they grew closer, it turned into two lights. Then three.

"The Bridge of Dream," said Tyrion.

"Inconceivable," said Haldon Halfmaester. "We've left the bridge behind. Rivers only run one way."

"Mother Rhoyne runs how she will," murmured Yandry.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

6 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Hi Leech -- could you please explain what he does in 'House of the Worm'?  

Although I haven't read it, I did a quick search and came across some very interesting text about obsidian, in addition to dozens of mentions of 'wormholes' and how 'time is arbitrary with the worm-children'...to once again confirm for me that --contrary to the groans of the 'time-travel,' 'time-dilation' or 'time-projection' (whatever you want to call it) detractors -- that GRRM is very interested in slipping in references to, and even dabbling in exploring, time travel in his work.  It also strikes me that the references to 'wormways' under Castle Black and the weirwoods as 'grave worms' might be subtle allusions to time travel -- the weirwood is the ultimate time-travel machine or wormhole.

Another name for a wormhole is an Einstein-Rosen bridge (it's both a 'bridge' and a 'tunnel' of sorts).  'Einstein' in German can be translated as 'one stone', so he's a 'stone man' who plays games with time and space!  Additionally, 'einstein' can also be a verb 'einstein(en)' meaning to enclose or surround with stone -- sounds like the process of greyscale to me...

Passing under the bridge of stonemen activated some kind of wormhole, hence the 'time rewind' phenomena in which Tyrion appeared to 'gain time'.

This is a cool article in which Stephen Hawking talks about time travel and wormholes.

In it, Hawking uses the analogy of time as a river which Bloodraven also uses:

 

 

 

Or perhaps, instead of time travel, perhaps he's moving toward different dimensions of time and space, with doors that lead to different worlds like the heart of winter and wherever thE Dragon was that Daenerys dreamed about. 

[ravenous reader]

9 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Or perhaps, instead of time travel, perhaps he's moving toward different dimensions of time and space, with doors that lead to different worlds like the heart of winter and wherever thE Dragon was that Daenerys dreamed about. 

Another quote from Hawking:

Quote

Nothing is flat or solid. If you look closely enough at anything you'll find holes and wrinkles in it. It's a basic physical principle, and it even applies to time. Even something as smooth as a pool ball has tiny crevices, wrinkles and voids. Now it's easy to show that this is true in the first three dimensions. But trust me, it's also true of the fourth dimension. There are tiny crevices, wrinkles and voids in time. Down at the smallest of scales, smaller even than molecules, smaller than atoms, we get to a place called the quantum foam. This is where wormholes exist. Tiny tunnels or shortcuts through space and time constantly form, disappear, and reform within this quantum world. And they actually link two separate places and two different times.

Unfortunately, these real-life time tunnels are just a billion-trillion-trillionths of a centimetre across. Way too small for a human to pass through - but here's where the notion of wormhole time machines is leading. Some scientists think it may be possible to capture a wormhole and enlarge it many trillions of times to make it big enough for a human or even a spaceship to enter.

Similarly, GRRM also believes in the 'one-but-overwrinkling' principle.

ETA:  As @Pain killer Jane has highlighted, that famous quote about 'the land is one -- one but overwrinkled' may be an allusion to Madeleine L'Engle's 'A Wrinkle in Time,' in which there is also notable tinkering with alternate dimensions of time and space.

[The Fattest Leech]

@ravenous reader I am at work sneaking again, but the very short version is the main character is -get this- descending down, down, down into the wormways of old and the main character starts to get confused in time and place and wonders if he has been here before. I don't know if the book is readily available anywhere, but here is a link to a you tube video that has someone (Preston Jacobs) reading it. There is no commentary and no theory on anything, just the story, so don't worry PJ haters  The video/story is about 2 full hours long 

I just want it add that in this story there is no actual time travel. The main character just gets the sensation. George does have three actual time travel stories, but the TT aspect is set up clearly from the beginning, or very close to it. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

40 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Another quote from Hawking:

Similarly, GRRM also believes in the 'one-but-overwrinkling' principle.

ETA:  As @Pain killer Jane has highlighted, that famous quote about 'the land is one -- one but overwrinkled' may be an allusion to Madeleine L'Engle's 'A Wrinkle in Time,' in which there is also notable tinkering with alternate dimensions of time and space.

Oh, man! I remember loving A Wrinkle in Time, but it's been so long, I can't recall a thing about it. 

[Pain killer Jane]

6 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Another quote from Hawking:

Similarly, GRRM also believes in the 'one-but-overwrinkling' principle.

ETA:  As @Pain killer Jane has highlighted, that famous quote about 'the land is one -- one but overwrinkled' may be an allusion to Madeleine L'Engle's 'A Wrinkle in Time,' in which there is also notable tinkering with alternate dimensions of time and space.

I do agree with this, I also think that GRRM in terms of his current individuals playing out his mythology/history, he is trying to show the Holographic Principle as an aspect of this 'one but overwrinkling' principle. 

[Renly's Banana]

Honestly the whole Gerion Lannister/Shrouded Lord thing has always been a bit too tinfoil-y for my taste. And with little to no proof. When I first read through this part I just assumed their boat had gotten turned around because of the fog and currents. But I dig the idea of it being a sort of Bermuda Triangle deal, too. That whole part of Essos seems to be largely unknown and forgotten now; who knows what kind of old Rhoynar magic is still lingering there.

But I'll take any of those explanations over the "Shrouded Lord" any day.