DAARIO NAHARIS, SON OF THE RED VIPER (Restored and Completed)

[Lord Wraith]

5 hours ago, bemused said:

@St Daga

Thanks, .. But you know...

..Book Daario never says this, as far as I know....I believe it's only uttered by a certain shabby impostor in some impoverished alternate version of the tale.. 

Re: the Stormcrows (and @Lord Wraith, I'm tagging you because of your post in LB's thread).. Crows fly ahead of a storm (and so in our superstition, are said to bring the storm). With a Blackfyre Mama in mind, in The Mystery Knight, the expected battle is referred to as a storm... 

He said there was a storm coming the likes of which Westeros had not seen for a generation, ... Glendon Ball

 "A few drops of rain, and all the bold lords go squealing for shelter. What will they do when the real storm breaks, I wonder?" ... Alyn Cockshaw

 That boy is fiddling up a storm, and all of us would do well to be gone from here before it breaks." ... Maynard Plumm

.. and in an upcoming Barristan chapter (I believe the one that has only been read)...

  Hide contents

The Stormcrows ride in the forefront of the battle, crying Daario! and Stormcrows,fly! ... and IIRC, Barristan notes their loyalty to Daario and bravery..

Even if this gets changed by the time of publication, the company that was formed to support Blackfyres is the Golden Company.. but then, Oberyn's company is out there, and though I tried to see if the NW ship, the Storm Crow fit together somehow, way back when ... I didn't think of the Qorgyll - Martell connection Lord Wraith mentioned in the other thread (at least not in this regard)

On a macro level, I have a growing sense that in the coming conflict with the Others, the old and/or magical bloodlines need to come together to face it, and old rifts will need to be healed or resolved(e.g. Targaryen/Blackfyre) 

... I came to see how some of this might be happening (if I'm right) in the process of wrestling with a number of apparently unrelated questions...E.g. I think Mance is Qorgyle's bastard. The Qorgyles are closely associated with the Martells and if there have been marriage ties between them over the years, Mance's bloodline could trace right back to Nymeria (I'm reminded of Jon thinking Mance was no more royal than himself). Tracing back to Nymeria would also be true for Daario if he's Oberyn's son .... I think Satin is a Hightower bastard (I can link to these, if anyone's interested).... One Baratheon (Stormlord) is currently at the wall (and I think may end there) ... It seems Jeor's neices are gravitating to Jon while Jorah has gravitated to Dany.. and so on and so forth.. 

Yea the whole Lord Commander Oorygle seems a bit out of place when Mormont is going on about how hard it is about getting highborn men on the Wall. The former LC coming from Dorne is a bit out of place. Then of course the Storm Crow is a ship in East Watch. I am sure the former LC didn't ride the whole distance to the Wall. Oberyn struck me as a curious and adventurous man like Tyrion. Considering his many travels I would find it odd if he never travelled to the Wall at some point. Although we are never told we are the case. Still the connection with his fostering with House Qorgyle is one of those little thing Martin drops that no one thinks about unless they are looking for it.

I like the bit about the storm coming from the D&E novels. Also spot on about the loyalty of the Storm Crows to Daario. Sellswords are not usually noted for their loyalty, unless it is the Golden Company.

Mance as Qorgyle's bastard, interesting notion but I think I have heard that somewhere before. Might have been from you. I still like the descendant of Bloodraven myself.

Satin as an Hightower bastard say maybe from an out of wedlock Mad Maid is possible. I always liked the idea that he was one of Lyn Corbay's boys. Remember he was picked up in a jail near Gulltown. Also could have been a spy for Baelish would be interesting to say the least. Satin is literate to a degree and uses "my lord"  not Milord so you might be on to something.

[Frey family reunion]

21 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said:

 

Mance as Qorgyle's bastard, interesting notion but I think I have heard that somewhere before. Might have been from you. I still like the descendant of Bloodraven myself.

 

Perhaps both can be true.  It's tenuous but the current lord Qorgyle is Quentyn Qorgyle, perhaps named after a maternal grandfather, Quentyn Blackwood, the recently deceased head of House Blackwood at the time of the Hedge Knight.

[Lord Wraith]

Just now, Frey family reunion said:

Perhaps both can be true.  It's tenuous but the current lord Qorgyle is Quentyn Qorgyle, perhaps named after a maternal grandfather, Quentyn Blackwood, the recently deceased head of House Blackwood at the time of the Hedge Knight.

 you forgot to drop the mic. That would be interesting indeed.

I was actually thinking Bloodraven -> Craster -> Mance. Mance managed to be found by the Night's Watch before the Others got him.

[Frey family reunion]

1 minute ago, Lord Wraith said:

 you forgot to drop the mic. That would be interesting indeed.

I was actually thinking Bloodraven -> Craster -> Mance. Mance managed to be found by the Night's Watch before the Others got him.

My thought is Mance is the bastard of Lord Commander Qorgyle, who in turn is a Blackwood descendant from the maternal side of the family, and if I had to guess Lord Qorgyle is currently Coldhands.  Giving both a familial relationship with Bloodraven.

[Lord Wraith]

9 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

My thought is Mance is the bastard of Lord Commander Qorgyle, who in turn is a Blackwood descendant from the maternal side of the family, and if I had to guess Lord Qorgyle is currently Coldhands.  Giving both a familial relationship with Bloodraven.

Ok. Nah Leaf says he died long ago. If I had to guess I'd say LC Hoare.

[Good Guy Garlan]

The Sand Snakes, Darkstar, now Daario...what the hell is wrong with Oberyn's swimmers that even his speculative children suck? It's like the apple didn't just fall far from the tree, it fell in another field altogether and was immediately eaten by worms. 

[Lord Wraith]

13 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

The Sand Snakes, Darkstar, now Daario...what the hell is wrong with Oberyn's swimmers that even his speculative children suck? It's like the apple didn't just fall far from the tree, it fell in another field altogether and was immediately eaten by worms. 

Martin's fault really in his writing of the characters. Martin seems to think we should like Darkstar and the Sand Snakes in his SSM's. Hopefully they will all be redeemed in Winds.

[bemused]

4 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Dany is a grown woman though, not a developing fetus. Pregnant women are advised to avoid hot tubs and hot baths and showers. But wait, there's more...

Aenys I was born weak, and I think part of the reason might have been that his mother wouldn't stay off her dragon during the pregnancy. Rhaenys rode more than Aegon and Visenya did.

Another factor is that Aegon, Visenya, and Rhaenys all used dragon saddles, which would have offered at least some protection from the heat. Dany has no saddle for Drogon. 

This would be the kind of thing that the Targs who came from Valyria would have passed on to their children, and it would have continued to be passed on as long as it was useful info. But once the dragons died out, and it became obvious they weren't coming back, I could see that little bit of info not being considered worth mentioning anymore.

I won't say that this is impossible ... Of course, the main point of the saddles, it seems to me, is to prevent falling off.. though protection from heat would be a nice side benefit.

I guess one is always influenced by where one starts from and for me that was considering the motivations of the GG and Hizdahr. Dany thinks she needs the marriage for peace and tells Hizzy.. "To be my king and consort, you need only bring me peace. .." and assumes that is their main concern as well. She doesn't believe she can have children but doesn't mention it.

Hizzy and the GG bring children into it from the get go..

Dany: ... I need a man with ships and swords. You offer me ancestors."
"We are an old people. Ancestors are important to us. Wed Hizdahr zo Loraq and make a son with him, a son whose father is the harpy, whose mother is the dragon. In him the prophecies shall be fulfilled, and your enemies will melt away like snow." ..<snip>..  Dany knew how it went with prophecies. They were made of words, and words were wind. There would be no son for Loraq, no heir to unite dragon and harpy. When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. Only then would her womb quicken once again … ... Dany IV

I have gold and friends and influence, and the blood of Old Ghis flows in my veins. Though I have never wed, I have two natural children, a boy and a girl, so I can give you heirs. I can reconcile the city to your rule and put an end to this nightly slaughter in the streets."...Dany IV

"The pearls symbolize fertility. The more pearls Your Worship wears, the more healthy children she will bear."
"Why would I want a hundred children?" Dany turned to the Green Grace. "If we should wed by Westerosi rites …"
"The gods of Ghis would deem it no true union." Galazza Galare's face was hidden behind a veil of green silk. Only her eyes showed, green and wise and sad. "In the eyes of the city you would be the noble Hizdahr's concubine, not his lawful wedded wife. Your children would be bastards.  
... Dany VI

They have a use for Dany until they have an heir or two or three, then they'd be perfectly happy (if not eager) to dispense with her.. I think the subject of Hizzy's tapestries shed a little light..

On the walls were priceless tapestries, ancient and much faded, depicting the glory of the Old Empire of Ghis. The largest of them showed the last survivors of a defeated Valyrian army passing beneath the yoke and being chained. ...The Kingbreaker

Since I think they were responsible for the poison, then it can't have been intended to kill (Btw..I utterly reject Skahaz).. if she died now Hizdahr's elevation to King might not last, as other Great Master families consider themselves equally worthy.

1 hour ago, Frey family reunion said:

Perhaps both can be true.  It's tenuous but the current lord Qorgyle is Quentyn Qorgyle, perhaps named after a maternal grandfather, Quentyn Blackwood, the recently deceased head of House Blackwood at the time of the Hedge Knight.

Tenuous, but very interesting ...

1 hour ago, Lord Wraith said:

 you forgot to drop the mic. That would be interesting indeed.

I was actually thinking Bloodraven -> Craster -> Mance. Mance managed to be found by the Night's Watch before the Others got him.

Mance was supposed to have been found with a group of raiders, so he wasn't a babe in arms when the NW took him in ...

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

I will never understand why people are so interested in this character

Whutever, to each their own

[St Daga]

16 hours ago, bemused said:

..Book Daario never says this, as far as I know....I believe it's only uttered by a certain shabby impostor in some impoverished alternate version of the tale.. 

Pretty disappointed in myself right now. I hate when I get the book and another version jumbled in my head. 

16 hours ago, bemused said:

.. and in an upcoming Barristan chapter (I believe the one that has only been read)...

  Reveal hidden contents

I have stubbornly refused to look into the tWoW chapters, but I do see the idea of crows and storms, but I still am not sold on the Dorne/Oberyn connection for this sellsword company. But maybe ...

16 hours ago, bemused said:

I think Satin is a Hightower bastard

Yes, this could very well be. I believe I have read that theory. Satin is certainly brought to our attention often in the text. The Hightower's also seem to be playing a long game in Westeros. I certainly think Satin has been planted at the wall, but I am not sure I believe by who or what his purpose is.  

17 hours ago, bemused said:

I think Mance is Qorgyle's bastard. The Qorgyles are closely associated with the Martells and if there have been marriage ties between them over the years, Mance's bloodline could trace right back to Nymeria

Hmmm! I have to say that there are things about Mance that do remind me of a Dornish house, but it is not House Martell. I see some Dayne symbolism to Mance, and some of the things he says are similar to things that Arthur Dayne may have said to Ned in a certain fever dream. I don't think Mance is Arthur, but I do wonder about Arthur's mysterious older brother, who has no name and apparently left his young son Ned to be Lord of Starfall. I admit this is crackpot at best, and I have little proof to back it up. Just a feeling, I guess.

The Qorgyle LC idea is interesting. Mance had three spots of red thread sewed on his black cloak, while House Qorgyle sigil is three black scorpions on a red field. This could indicate the Mance is a bastard of that house, based on color reversals. I can actually see this connection easier than I can fit Mance into House Dayne. House Qorgyle is sworn to House Martell, so that is a possibility that I had not considered. However, how closely House Martell and House Qorgyle are, I am not as convinced as Arianne is. Arianne has proved to me that she is not as smart  as her father or uncle. Oberyn certainly has a link to House Qorgyle, however.

How old is Mance, do you think? Do we have some idea of marriage between  houses Qorgyle and Martell or how about Qorgyle and Dayne? I admit that is not something I have looked into at all.

(also, I can't type Qorgyle for crappola, so if it's incorrect like a half million times, I would not be surprised)

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

6 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

I will never understand why people are so interested in this character

Whutever, to each their own

There's a thing going around the internet that GRRM said there is more to Daario than meets the eye. No one can find the source, but it got people thinking. That's probably what got most of us into taking another look at him. He's also a lot like Prince Daemon Targaryen, just without having been born into power.

15 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

 you forgot to drop the mic. That would be interesting indeed.

I was actually thinking Bloodraven -> Craster -> Mance. Mance managed to be found by the Night's Watch before the Others got him.

All of Craster's sons are left out in the cold...or worse. It's unlikely that Mance was one of them. 

[bemused]

@St Daga

5 hours ago, St Daga said:

Pretty disappointed in myself right now. I hate when I get the book and another version jumbled in my head. 

I gave you a wink and a grin because I've done the same myself ,now and then... GRRRRR!

5 hours ago, St Daga said:

I have stubbornly refused to look into the tWoW chapters, but I do see the idea of crows and storms, but I still am not sold on the Dorne/Oberyn connection for this sellsword company. But maybe ...

When I first wondered about the Stormcrows, I came away feeling there wasn't enough there to make a really firm connection .. a possibility, but nothing solid. So, I went back to obsessing about the Starks and the north.

 Some time later on a re-read (thinking I really should pay more attention to Dany's storyline), I became more convinced.

I realised that Daario's fury wasn't making sense to me..Why should he be more upset over Quentyn than over Hizdahr, and why should he still want to go after the other prisoners, after the marriage? (More or less the same questions @Lady Blizzardborn  raised upthread).

When I read ... "Martell was dancing in a viper's nest and he did not even see the snakes." and realised that GRRM made an equation in Barristan's conversation with Quentyn & co, that is: Quentyn = Oberyn and Quentyn = Daario (therefore, Daario = Oberyn) ..and that the equation, or a similar one, was repeated in his confrontation with Hizdahr : Quentyn = Daario  and Quentyn = all Dornish (= poisoners), therefore Daario = Dornish (Barristan erases poisoner from the equation) ... and (cherry on top) Hizzy claims, the Dornish worship snakes - Wrong.. but the Dornish worship the Red Viper (a snake who was a poisoner) ... I just laughed out loud.

That made me curious as to symbolism might be present, and whether Oberyn was ever referred to as "the snake" .. and I found the steady drip, drip, drip of .. "a snake", "the snake",  .. mostly coming from Tyrion (who is no doubt about to meet Daario).. and "all Dornish are snakes" coming from Cersei, which resonates with Hizzy's..  "..They're all poisoners, these Dornish. Reznak says they worship snakes."

Going back to Daario's unabated fury, I'm even now realising that when Arch and Gerris tell Barristan about the Tattered Prince's agreement with Quentyn in The Queen's Hand, and Barristan can easily guess the price ...  

"Pentos," said Ser Barristan. "He promised him Pentos. Say it. No words of yours can help or harm Prince Quentyn now."

"Aye," said Ser Archibald unhappily. "It was Pentos. They made marks on a paper, the two of them."

... there's a very good chance that Daario could have figured it out, too. Why would Tatters invest so many of his own men in Quentyn's cause? .. Tatters' story is widely known. Of course he wants Pentos. .. For Daario, paying this price would be yet another delay, another distraction from his purpose and Dany's ultimate goal. More frustration for Daario.. If he truly wants to kill the prisoners, it could be to prevent Tatters' offer from reaching Dany.

I think he figures he can pry Dany away from Hizzy, eventually..and Quentyn ? If I'm right, they're cousins, and their fathers were very close .. if Doran's purpose is to wed Dany to Dorne, Daario, as Oberyn's son, could still stand in for Quentyn. After all, as Barristan points out in The Discarded Knight..
 Like all good queens she put her people first—else she would never have wed Hizdahr zo Loraq—but the girl in her still yearned for poetry, passion, and laughter. She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud. .. 

Well, but if the fire is equal to the mud (still binding her to House Martell), why not let her have the fire? Doran has already shown that he's willing to make substitute arrangements. Why should Daario alienate Doran by killing Quentyn?

5 hours ago, St Daga said:

How old is Mance, do you think? Do we have some idea of marriage between  houses Qorgyle and Martell or how about Qorgyle and Dayne? I admit that is not something I have looked into at all.

I don't think we know about marriages that I can recall, and my World book is still not unpacked after my move, but because we see a Qorgyle with Oberyn, it's more likely Arianne is correct (generally speaking).. Anyway, here's my Mance/Qorgyle thoughts, if you like..

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/120082-mance-may-be-qorgyles-son/

 

[Lord Wraith]

7 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

There's a thing going around the internet that GRRM said there is more to Daario than meets the eye. No one can find the source, but it got people thinking. That's probably what got most of us into taking another look at him. He's also a lot like Prince Daemon Targaryen, just without having been born into power.

All of Craster's sons are left out in the cold...or worse. It's unlikely that Mance was one of them. 

Yes Craster leaves his son out but its not impossible that one was found by the Wildlings and saved. THen captured by the Rangers.

It could simply be that Mance is Bloodraven's son but somethings make me think there is a connection between Bloodraven and Craster.

[bemused]

A while ago, I said.. (Edit:adding tag for @Lady Blizzardborn)

Quote

On a macro level, I have a growing sense that in the coming conflict with the Others, the old and/or magical bloodlines need to come together to face it, and old rifts will need to be healed or resolved(e.g. Targaryen/Blackfyre) 

With this in mind, on the Martell side, Daario's bloodline would trace all the way back to Nymeria, and a union with Dany would also bring together bloodlines of both sides of the Rhoynish / Valerian conflict.

I hadn't tried to make much of the shabbiness of Daario's clothes when Dany first meets him , simply because nothing came to mind - beyond the fact that Daario was as unafraid of getting dirty, as of getting bloody. But the description can also be symbolic after all...

His garb, rich as it was, had seen hard wear; salt stains patterned his boots, the enamel of his nails was chipped, his lace was soiled by sweat, and she could see where the end of his cloak was fraying. ... ASoS Dany IV

Rich garb stands for nobility .. but it had seen hard wear. (think of the hardships of Nymeria's voyage) Lace soiled by sweat- the sojourns in hot climates... salt stained boots- the sea voyage again..

There is another reading (leading to the same conclusion) to be made up to this point... When Tyrion meets Oberyn he thinks .. Only a few streaks of silver marred the lustrous black hair that receded from his brow in a widow's peak as sharply pointed as his nose. A salty Dornishman for certain .. ASoS, Tyrion V

And from the WoIaF...  the salty Dornishmen of the coasts, dark-haired and lithe and oliveskinned, have the queerest customs and the most Rhoynish blood. (When Princess Nymeria came ashore in Dorne, most of her Rhoynar preferred to remain close to the sea that had been their home for so long, even after Nymeria burned their ships.)

Thus the salt stained boots.. lace - hot climate - Dorne (as well as present surroundings)..hard wear- life as a sellsword ain't easy ... That leaves us with the chipped nail enamel and the frayed edge of his cloak.. which in all cases could say that his disguise is getting harder to maintain,or could predict that it will be chipped away at, begin to unravel.

On a side note , this brings up the harmonies with Garin again, Garin of the orphans of the Greenblood, named for Garin the Great, he's loose-limbed ... Salty Dornishmen are lithe ... Daario is lithe. ..And there's another almost similarity shared by Oberyn, Daario and Garin. Though described differently, they all have distinctive noses.. Oberyn - sharply pointed, Daario - great curving nose, Garin - long-nosed .

[Lady Blizzardborn]

13 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Yes Craster leaves his son out but its not impossible that one was found by the Wildlings and saved. THen captured by the Rangers.

It could simply be that Mance is Bloodraven's son but somethings make me think there is a connection between Bloodraven and Craster.

Do we have any age ideas on Craster? It's said his father was a member of the Watch. 

I've never considered a connection between him and Bloodraven because I haven't seen any symbolism connecting them. If you've got quotes that I've missed could you send them to me in a PM?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

14 hours ago, bemused said:

A while ago, I said.. (Edit:adding tag for @Lady Blizzardborn)

With this in mind, on the Martell side, Daario's bloodline would trace all the way back to Nymeria, and a union with Dany would also bring together bloodlines of both sides of the Rhoynish / Valerian conflict.

I hadn't tried to make much of the shabbiness of Daario's clothes when Dany first meets him , simply because nothing came to mind - beyond the fact that Daario was as unafraid of getting dirty, as of getting bloody. But the description can also be symbolic after all...

His garb, rich as it was, had seen hard wear; salt stains patterned his boots, the enamel of his nails was chipped, his lace was soiled by sweat, and she could see where the end of his cloak was fraying. ... ASoS Dany IV

Rich garb stands for nobility .. but it had seen hard wear. (think of the hardships of Nymeria's voyage) Lace soiled by sweat- the sojourns in hot climates... salt stained boots- the sea voyage again..

There is another reading (leading to the same conclusion) to be made up to this point... When Tyrion meets Oberyn he thinks .. Only a few streaks of silver marred the lustrous black hair that receded from his brow in a widow's peak as sharply pointed as his nose. A salty Dornishman for certain .. ASoS, Tyrion V

And from the WoIaF...  the salty Dornishmen of the coasts, dark-haired and lithe and oliveskinned, have the queerest customs and the most Rhoynish blood. (When Princess Nymeria came ashore in Dorne, most of her Rhoynar preferred to remain close to the sea that had been their home for so long, even after Nymeria burned their ships.)

Thus the salt stained boots.. lace - hot climate - Dorne (as well as present surroundings)..hard wear- life as a sellsword ain't easy ... That leaves us with the chipped nail enamel and the frayed edge of his cloak.. which in all cases could say that his disguise is getting harder to maintain,or could predict that it will be chipped away at, begin to unravel.

On a side note , this brings up the harmonies with Garin again, Garin of the orphans of the Greenblood, named for Garin the Great, he's loose-limbed ... Salty Dornishmen are lithe ... Daario is lithe. ..And there's another almost similarity shared by Oberyn, Daario and Garin. Though described differently, they all have distinctive noses.. Oberyn - sharply pointed, Daario - great curving nose, Garin - long-nosed .

Awesome point about bringing Nymeria in and thus rectifying (in a sense) the Valyrian/Rhoynar enmity.

This is actually the second time Dany meets Daario. In their first meeting he is immaculate. He comes back having roughed up his clothes in whatever scuffling occurred that enabled him to overpower Prendhal and Sallor. The chipped polish on his nails indicates this. The frayed cloak is the except here, as he was not wearing a cloak when he was first presented to Daenerys. That could be part of his disguise to go out from Yunkai undetected and get back in undetected, and echoes the disguised heritage we're looking at rather well: the expensive clothes hidden by the frayed cloak mirrors the noble heritage hidden by the sellsword life.

[The Fattest Leech]

15 hours ago, bemused said:

A while ago, I said.. (Edit:adding tag for @Lady Blizzardborn)

With this in mind, on the Martell side, Daario's bloodline would trace all the way back to Nymeria, and a union with Dany would also bring together bloodlines of both sides of the Rhoynish / Valerian conflict.

I hadn't tried to make much of the shabbiness of Daario's clothes when Dany first meets him , simply because nothing came to mind - beyond the fact that Daario was as unafraid of getting dirty, as of getting bloody. But the description can also be symbolic after all...

His garb, rich as it was, had seen hard wear; salt stains patterned his boots, the enamel of his nails was chipped, his lace was soiled by sweat, and she could see where the end of his cloak was fraying. ... ASoS Dany IV

Rich garb stands for nobility .. but it had seen hard wear. (think of the hardships of Nymeria's voyage) Lace soiled by sweat- the sojourns in hot climates... salt stained boots- the sea voyage again..

There is another reading (leading to the same conclusion) to be made up to this point... When Tyrion meets Oberyn he thinks .. Only a few streaks of silver marred the lustrous black hair that receded from his brow in a widow's peak as sharply pointed as his nose. A salty Dornishman for certain .. ASoS, Tyrion V

And from the WoIaF...  the salty Dornishmen of the coasts, dark-haired and lithe and oliveskinned, have the queerest customs and the most Rhoynish blood. (When Princess Nymeria came ashore in Dorne, most of her Rhoynar preferred to remain close to the sea that had been their home for so long, even after Nymeria burned their ships.)

Thus the salt stained boots.. lace - hot climate - Dorne (as well as present surroundings)..hard wear- life as a sellsword ain't easy ... That leaves us with the chipped nail enamel and the frayed edge of his cloak.. which in all cases could say that his disguise is getting harder to maintain,or could predict that it will be chipped away at, begin to unravel.

On a side note , this brings up the harmonies with Garin again, Garin of the orphans of the Greenblood, named for Garin the Great, he's loose-limbed ... Salty Dornishmen are lithe ... Daario is lithe. ..And there's another almost similarity shared by Oberyn, Daario and Garin. Though described differently, they all have distinctive noses.. Oberyn - sharply pointed, Daario - great curving nose, Garin - long-nosed .

On my phone so pardon the jibberish. 

If this is so, then We see this parallel nicely with what we see happening in the north now via Jon and his snow bear 

[bemused]

4 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Awesome point about bringing Nymeria in and thus rectifying (in a sense) the Valyrian/Rhoynar enmity.

This is actually the second time Dany meets Daario. In their first meeting he is immaculate. He comes back having roughed up his clothes in whatever scuffling occurred that enabled him to overpower Prendhal and Sallor. The chipped polish on his nails indicates this. The frayed cloak is the except here, as he was not wearing a cloak when he was first presented to Daenerys. That could be part of his disguise to go out from Yunkai undetected and get back in undetected, and echoes the disguised heritage we're looking at rather well: the expensive clothes hidden by the frayed cloak mirrors the noble heritage hidden by the sellsword life.

Right, second meeting, but she's only just met him was my meaning... and it's only 2 hours later. At their first meeting she had the three captains to pay attention to and Daario wasn't doing the talking. I take away that she now has a chance to get a closer look, and the shabbiness becomes evident.

For me, " hard wear" is something that happens over time, not just in a recent scuffle.(No rips or tears, or blood)...and his clothes "had seen hard wear" says it was in the past so I don't know if a 2 hr. difference does it. 

The chipped enamel could definitely have happened in a scuffle, and maybe the sweat stained lace, although the lace was the colour of butter, so it could take repeatedly getting sweaty for noticeable stains to develop.

As I said upthread, I'm doubtful that there was much of a scuffle, or Daario would have expected the Yunkai'i sentries to be more troublesome on his return. I think he probably simply surprised them and not necessarily together.

But anyway, symbolism doesn't have to reflect what's going on in the present. Hey, we could both be right.

13 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

On my phone so pardon the jibberish. 

If this is so, then We see this parallel nicely with what we see happening in the north now via Jon and his snow bear 

That's part of why I like it..

[Lady Blizzardborn]

45 minutes ago, bemused said:

Right, second meeting, but she's only just met him was my meaning... and it's only 2 hours later. At their first meeting she had the three captains to pay attention to and Daario wasn't doing the talking. I take away that she now has a chance to get a closer look, and the shabbiness becomes evident.

For me, " hard wear" is something that happens over time, not just in a recent scuffle.(No rips or tears, or blood)...and his clothes "had seen hard wear" says it was in the past so I don't know if a 2 hr. difference does it. 

The chipped enamel could definitely have happened in a scuffle, and maybe the sweat stained lace, although the lace was the colour of butter, so it could take repeatedly getting sweaty for noticeable stains to develop.

As I said upthread, I'm doubtful that there was much of a scuffle, or Daario would have expected the Yunkai'i sentries to be more troublesome on his return. I think he probably simply surprised them and not necessarily together.

But anyway, symbolism doesn't have to reflect what's going on in the present. Hey, we could both be right.

That's part of why I like it..

I meant scuffle with the two captains he killed. No way they both went down without a fight. Considering how much attention Dany does pay to him and his appearance--including his clothes--when they first meet, either he changed clothes (and there's no evidence of that) or he's been getting quite dirty in the last two hours when he returns. I just don't think it likely that she didn't notice the shabbiness of his clothes the first time. Either they were fine or they were shabby. Not likely they were both.

Actually changing some of his clothes is possible. He might not want to get blood and guts all over everything he was wearing for that first meeting.

[bemused]

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I meant scuffle with the two captains he killed. No way they both went down without a fight. Considering how much attention Dany does pay to him and his appearance--including his clothes--when they first meet, either he changed clothes (and there's no evidence of that) or he's been getting quite dirty in the last two hours when he returns. I just don't think it likely that she didn't notice the shabbiness of his clothes the first time. Either they were fine or they were shabby. Not likely they were both.

Actually changing some of his clothes is possible. He might not want to get blood and guts all over everything he was wearing for that first meeting.

I don't think we can agree on this point  ... Daario is quick, by his own claim and Barristan's thoughts (Yes, that was by comparison to himself, but then, he was pretty quick in the basilisk episode.)..Daario will later recommend a surprise attack to Dany..

Why would he take on the two of them together, if he didn't have to? Unless they were inseparable in the interim, they could have been dealt with singly. We don't even know how they were killed, for that matter. We only know their heads were taken to Dany to prove they were dead. ..He could have snuck up behind them and snapped their necks, commando-style .. or any number of  other ways. (Hell, maybe botanist Daario could have poisoned them..)

Dany actually says nothing about being dirty ... something can be clean and still have sweat stains. I don't think he changed his clothes..I think that's something she would have remarked.

Either way, why should he have salt stained boots? I think (in light of the other Oberyn clues) that they refer to the salty Dornish and ancestral ties to Nymeria.

(Just a personal experience note: I had a friend who dealt in vintage fabrics and clothing. Some items could look pristine from 10,or even 5 ft. away, but up close, you could see the wear and tear along the seams and finished edges, and some sweat stains would not come out, no matter how often they'd been cleaned.)