James Arryn Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Nasty LongRider said: Well, perhaps you're safe then. Perhaps. Eto khoroshiye novosti. Der'mo! Akh prosto ubit' menya seychas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Russia is Benghazi for Democrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: Russia is Benghazi for Democrats Did not hurt the Republican did it? Trump though is working to guarantee an Independent Investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said: Did not hurt the Republican did it? Trump though is working to guarantee an Independent Investigation. Da, nevezhestvo yest' prochnost'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 39 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: Russia is Benghazi for Democrats Yes, because so many members of Obama's cabinet perjured themselves under oath and then had to resign or recuse themselves from the investigation, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Yes, because so many members of Obama's cabinet perjured themselves under oath and then had to resign or recuse themselves from the investigation, rtight? Don't forget, staff left before the election even happened due to Russian ties, the big one being Manafort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 13 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Yes, because so many members of Obama's cabinet perjured themselves under oath and then had to resign or recuse themselves from the investigation, rtight? Too bad John Kerry wasnt around to proclaim "nothing to see here" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I tend to think that is going to be the case. People forget that this has been under investigation by various parties already for many, many months, and there is not much 'there, there'...various people have done business in Russia and talked to Russians...this falls short of any 'smoking gun' that will show some type of illegal collaboration between the Russian hackers and the Trump campaign. People will believe what they believe, just like with Benghazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: Too bad John Kerry wasnt around to proclaim "nothing to see here" What was there to see exactly? Outside of an overreach by the State Department? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: I tend to think that is going to be the case. People forget that this has been under investigation by various parties already for many, many months, and there is not much 'there, there'...various people have done business in Russia and talked to Russians...this falls short of any 'smoking gun' that will show some type of illegal collaboration between the Russian hackers and the Trump campaign. People will believe what they believe, just like with Benghazi. If Trump is telling the truth, there was enough 'there' there to get approval for a tap. Benghazi was an isolated incident, and as such investigations are relatively accute. This is more like Watergate, which took a looooong time and was kinda drip drip drip drip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 16 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: I tend to think that is going to be the case. People forget that this has been under investigation by various parties already for many, many months, and there is not much 'there, there'...various people have done business in Russia and talked to Russians...this falls short of any 'smoking gun' that will show some type of collaboration between the Russian hackers and the Trump campaign. People will believe what they believe, just like with Benghazi. Investigations like this take awhile. ~4 months isn't a long time when you have to unwind a decade worth of financial/physical ties among multiple actors in multiple countries. At this point, we have no idea what is there because the FBI isn't saying and that makes sense as they build a case. Agreed with you there is no smoking gun at this point but there are enough coincidences (multiple Trump officials lying about their contacts with Russia during the campaign, lots of money flowing into the Trump organization from Russia over the last decade, 6-7 Russians/Ukrainians with ties to Trump/Russia mysteriously dying over the last 3 months) to suggest that there is something there. This isn't going away until the FBI announces a conclusion to their investigation and that they were unable to find sufficient proof to conclude collusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 http://hill.cm/ITHn2T3 BREAKING: House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes said the committee will investigate possible surveillance against President Trump following his evidence-free claim that President Obama wiretapped Trump Tower before the November election. Yeah. As much as I loved the narrative that last night's tweets were a last-ditch effort from a POTUS who know that shit is about to blow up, it seems like they're going for a coordinated attack on Obama. They went from completely baseless tweets to promise of investigation in less than 24 hours. Who knows how far they're willing to go with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, denstorebog said: http://hill.cm/ITHn2T3 Yeah. As much as I loved the narrative that last night's tweets were a last-ditch effort from a POTUS who know that shit is about to blow up, it seems like they're going for a coordinated attack on Obama. They went from completely baseless tweets to promise of investigation in less than 24 hours. Who knows how far they're willing to go with this. Far be it for me to be a Trump apologist, but we don't actually know that his tweet was baseless. There seems to be a pattern of him reacting to conservative media pieces as though they are factual information, but at this point re: the tapping that's just speculation. He might well have received real info that he was tapped, or that the Russians were tapped and he was on it or w/e. I actually think your idea about his trying to preempt that still fits; if he gets his people thinking the taps were politically motivated before w/e was caught on tape comes home to roost, he goes a long way to pulling it's teeth. The aspect that IMO isn't examined enough is actually if the tapping did happen. That would seem to indicate that there was a case against him, which while not conclusive or %100 certainly devoid of politics, still probably indicative that the smoke is at least pretty thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, denstorebog said: http://hill.cm/ITHn2T3 Yeah. As much as I loved the narrative that last night's tweets were a last-ditch effort from a POTUS who know that shit is about to blow up, it seems like they're going for a coordinated attack on Obama. They went from completely baseless tweets to promise of investigation in less than 24 hours. Who knows how far they're willing to go with this. Who cares? POTUS doesn't order wiretaps, the FBI does. Just another baseless Tweet that will lead to nothing other than millions of taxpayers dollars being wasted on a ghost hunt. /There's your BENGHAZI! comparison, @DunderMifflin. "Small Government" wasting our money on ridiculous witch hunts that lead nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: /There's your BENGHAZI! comparison, @DunderMifflin. "Small Government" wasting our money on ridiculous witch hunts that lead nowhere. It's what the R's in congress do! They can be counted on doing this as long as they can get away with it. Their base loves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 One sides witch hunt is the other sides truth seeking. The people who think the Obama Admin. lied about Benghazi still think it and they will always think it because the interpretation of what happened is subjective and depends on whether you give or don't give someone the benefit of the doubt that they're acting in good faith. The Russians colluding with Trump is, IMO going to turn out the same way. Those who already believe it, will keep believing it, those who think it's a smear won't change their mind as I very much doubt there is going to be any definitive proof either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Does anyone think these accusations would not of warranted an investigations? These are serious allegations made by the POTUS and regardless of circumstance is something that The Hill article had this will be part of the overall investigation that the House was going to conduct. It is not something separate and new. The matter I want to see will be something of real consequence for it is a very serious charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, James Arryn said: The aspect that IMO isn't examined enough is actually if the tapping did happen. That would seem to indicate that there was a case against him, which while not conclusive or %100 certainly devoid of politics, still probably indicative that the smoke is at least pretty thick. Yep, it would mean the FBI got a FISA warrant, which means they had to demonstrate probable cause to a judge, which means nothing good for Trump. For all those lamenting a potential Pence administration in the event of Trump being forced from office, man, do you know how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Would Pence be (perhaps immeasurably) better at shaping and advocating a coherent Republican legislative agenda due to his experience and relationships on the Hill? Sure, but the same could be said for Gerald Ford, who was House Minority Leader less than a year before succeeding to the presidency and had plenty of friends on both sides of the aisle - that's why he was appointed VP in the first place. That didn't stop the GOP from losing 49 seats in the House and 4 in the Senate (during a cycle in which Dems had to defend 20 of 34 seats) in the 1974 midterms three months after Nixon's resignation. That gave the Dems 291, or over two thirds, of seats in the House. Point is, a presidential ousting damages the entire Republican brand. It's not as if Pence is simply going to be able to start governing like he just won an election, you have to consider context. Not to mention, who knows how much political damage Pence would take in a potential Trump ouster. Ford had the luxury of clearly having nothing to do with Nixon at the time of Watergate. Pence would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: One sides witch hunt is the other sides truth seeking. The people who think the Obama Admin. lied about Benghazi still think it and they will always think it because the interpretation of what happened is subjective and depends on whether you give or don't give someone the benefit of the doubt that they're acting in good faith. The Russians colluding with Trump is, IMO going to turn out the same way. Those who already believe it, will keep believing it, those who think it's a smear won't change their mind as I very much doubt there is going to be any definitive proof either way. Sure, the Benghazi investigation was initially reasonable, but when you order investigation after investigation while turning up absolutely nothing, then it's fair to categorize that as an irresponsible waste of taxpayer money. There were like what, 3-4 Benghazi investigations? All of which turned up fuck-all? This Russian investigation may turn up nothing. If it does, I do not expect Democrats in the House and Senate to demand further investigations based on nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, dmc515 said: That gave the Dems 291, or over two thirds, of seats in the House. Point is, a presidential ousting damages the entire Republican brand. It's not as if Pence is simply going to be able to start governing like he just won an election, you have to consider context. Agreed. Moreover, Trump has built a following uniquely centered around his madness personality. "He says it like it is", and all that shit. A President Pence would either try to emulate Trump's madness style in order to keep the Trumpists happy, which would send everyone else into a frenzy given the Trump nightmare that had just been averted. Or he could go for a more civil and reassuring tone, which would please conservatives and appease Democrats, but anger Trumpists who would see it as betrayal of their ousted God Emperor. Yeah, I think I'd take President Pence and the likely damage to the Republican brand that would ensue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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