1000th Lord Commander Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Given that the Kingsgard are the seven most noble knights in the realm, they seem to have a significant lack of squires around. The only ones we hear about are Ser Barristan's in Mereen, and Jamie's hostages while he rides around the riverlands. But there are no mentions of squires to any of the others, although you would imagine that many would push for thier sons to serve as squires for the best knights in the realm. Deliberate omission or casual error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Well I don't really think the Kingsguard would need squires. I mean that's like a full time job. You're basically a bodyguard 24/7, why would you need some kid tagging along to fasten your cape while you stand and guard a door? Squires are more of a war-time, thing. Or taken as fosters to train and raise in your house and with your family. Seeing as the Kingsguard have neither castles nor families, and don't really see much war-time action now a days, they wouldn't need a squire. Though I'm sure whenever a battle breaks out and some Kingsguard is needed in the field, a hundred squires would immediately jump at the chance to go with them, like you saw with Jaime in the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindsayLohan Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 In Jaime's argument with Cersei about Tommen's training, Cersei was objecting to Tommen spending time in the training yard, especially with Loras. Jaime made it plain that Tommen should be a squire for someone, and that Ser Loras was as fine a knight as Tommen could ever learn from. Cersei, being full retard, insisted she find someone else, and essentially ended Tommen's knightly training there and then. At this point, Tommen has yet to resume. Based on Joffrey's lack of skill with sword and lance, it's likely that she interfered with or stopped his training, too. It doesn't even make any sense: She hates Robert (who is the Warrior incarnate), but loves Jaime (who is renowned for his knightly skill). Being surrounded by superior warriors, one would think she understands the need for such training. In any event, Jaime makes it clear that there is nothing wrong or unusual about a Kingsguard having a squire. He currently has two. Also, at the current moment, Ser Barristan is Dany's only Kingsguard, and he has three squires (Tumco Lho, Larraq, and the Red Lamb). It appears to be pretty common, especially in times of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Given how being a squire is essentially a training with a mentor for a future as a knight it can be considered odd that the Kingsguard don't have squires, or at least that there are not one or two around at all times. The only reason I can think of it is that GRRM overlooked it, the same way that Winterfell isn't shown to be a hub of activity despite being the center of the North in the start of the series. But I also think that this is something which GRRM is getting around to so that Jamie and Barristan both have a few squires seems to be a step in the right direction, and perhaps we'll have some explination of this in later texts or that GRRM will make it more common in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Winchester Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 A member of the kingsguard's entire job is to guard the king. They don't have wives or children because those would split his loyalties, and also because having a wife and children demands a fair amount of your time. They are supposed to be single minded in their determination to safeguard the king, and occasionally the royal family. It would actually seem weirder to me if they all had squires, since a squire requires time and attention to train them. They can simply use other servants to help them with the things that a knight would normally need a squire for such as donning armor and maintaining equipment. Barriston having squires now makes more sense. His job is to protect the queen, but he's old and needs a succession plan. His squires are part and parcel of that. Teaching them to fight like a knight, but also loyalty and devotion to Dany. Jamie off in the riverlands is taking on rather different duties than a member of the kingsguard usually would. As someone said, more of a wartime duty. The other possibility is that all of my assumptions are wrong, and other members of the kingsguard do in fact have squires, they are just either not seen on page, or inconsequential enough to the story that they aren't directly noticed by POV characters. I mean if someone else is looking at Tyrion with Pod trailing around after him, saying exactly nothing all the time, they aren't likely paying much attention to Pod. I suppose the problem with this theory is that we have Ser Mandon Moore specifically mention on the battlefield, trying to kill Tyrion and being killed by Pod in turn. If Mandon had a squire, that would be a good time to mention it. Also Arys Oakheart seem likely to have mentioned his squire in his chapters had he had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Winchester Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 4 hours ago, Renly's Banana said: Well I don't really think the Kingsguard would need squires. I mean that's like a full time job. You're basically a bodyguard 24/7, why would you need some kid tagging along to fasten your cape while you stand and guard a door? Because you don´t want to guard your King while short of a breastplate stretcher? Because, since the number of actual Kingsguard members is capped at 7, you don´t want half of your Kingsguard on off shifts doing menial but essential jobs like polishing their breastplates or sewing their white cloaks if squires can do that job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 All knights need squires whether they are members of the Kings Guard or not. Most of the time they don't get mentioned because there's no reason to overload the narrative, its as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, Black Crow said: All knights need squires whether they are members of the Kings Guard or not. No, not strictly. Duncan showed up at Ashford Tourney without a squire and called himself a knight. Standfast had 3 knights - ser Eustace, ser Bennis and Duncan. Of which 3 only Duncan had a squire. Obviously Standfast had no squire at all before Duncan and Aegon signed up. But a knight who has to do squire´s job for himself is not a knight 24/7 the way a knight who does have a squire is. You don´t want to fill the limited number of 7 Kingsguard with low level hedge knights like ser Bennis, or semiretired people like ser Eustace. Well, maybe a few eldest Brethren stop needing to actually use and maintain their arms in their dotage, like ser Harlan Grandison - but ser Barristan is not yet at that point. If anything, with less stamina in old age, Barristan has more need of squires. Would the 7 Kingsguard need 7 individually assigned squires, though? Or can a bunch of several knights living together share services of a squire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 They need all the squires, grooms and other servants which Jamie does. Its just that because they're not "important" they don't get mentioned, in real life as in fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of the Dreadfort Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I can't imagine the Kingsguard with the 24/7 job of protecting the king having much time or need for squires in Kings Landing with servants in the palace being able to do the same jobs. Having a squire could take focus away from the job at hand. But they could have a temporary squire during times of war to take care of the tasks which servants would have at the Palace and maybe they would have a temporary squire if they where competing in a tourney. But i wouldnt expect it to be a full time position with the Kingsguards job requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneyTargaryen Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Maybe the only KG who get squires are the Lord Commanders? I personally think this might be a bit of an intended omission, actually. Because we're shown two LC's [specifically] that have squires. If other KG members have them, they aren't mentioned. There's another LC [directly involved in a wartime situation], that may have had a squire. And that information might be very important to a certain mystery, as well as being several mysteries itself, lol. But I think Gerold Hightower had a squire, maybe two. "They" could have been to assist him in crossing the country, or maybe depening on their identity - gave him information on his location or safe passage. Especially since he was traveling that far distance on his own, with no sort of military force or back up during the height of RR, I don't think it's unreasonable to think he would have taken a squire on that journey.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joy Hill Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 In AGOT, during the Hand's tourney, we see through Ned that Jaime is "jesting with his squire" (before he's unhorsed by the Hound). So maybe the squires exist, but GRRM hasn't thought much about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Well I certainly think a certain KG likely had a squire and that that squire was Gerold Dayne. But that's just my crazy crack pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 13 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said: Given that the Kingsgard are the seven most noble knights in the realm, they seem to have a significant lack of squires around. The only ones we hear about are Ser Barristan's in Mereen, and Jamie's hostages while he rides around the riverlands. But there are no mentions of squires to any of the others, although you would imagine that many would push for thier sons to serve as squires for the best knights in the realm. Deliberate omission or casual error? No, they're not. They once were, but it was more about fighting ability than character. This current crop are not even the best fighters, let alone noble men. But you're right that they should probably have squires. Either is possible. In favor of deliberate omission is the fact that it would make at least seven more people to write about, someone tagging along after Jaime and being either killed or captured with him in the Whispering Wood, someone possibly going with Barristan to Essos, a tag-along for the Hound (and really who but Arya could deal with him?), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of the Dreadfort Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Joy Hill said: In AGOT, during the Hand's tourney, we see through Ned that Jaime is "jesting with his squire" (before he's unhorsed by the Hound). So maybe the squires exist, but GRRM hasn't thought much about them. Example of temporary squire for the occasion perhaps? Just going off topic surprised GRRM didn't give any description of the squire for the purpose of world building , even if the character as nothing to do with the plot going forward we could have had "Jesting with his squire who was wearing the sigil of house ..... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 There is also negative evidence in the absence of any text in which a member of the Kings Guard grumbles at not having a squire when he needs one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Thinking logically, I would imagine that they should have squires, Despite the fact that they have duties guarding the king. Sqiures attend to a series of tasks which a knight needs to trust are done, without directly overseeing them himself, such as taking care of arms/armour. A proper squire would see to this without the knight having to leave the throne room. I imagine that the master at arms of the Red Keep would see to most of thier martial training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daena the Defiant Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 12 hours ago, Black Crow said: They need all the squires, grooms and other servants which Jamie does. Its just that because they're not "important" they don't get mentioned, in real life as in fiction. Exactly. Just like Cersei's retinue of ladies is conveniently overlooked, even though attaching your eligible daughters to the wife of the liege was every bit as important to the feudal framework as attaching your sons as squires to notable knights was. They are there, silent, peeking through the narrative only when they are required for the plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 I would imagine the Red Keep's staff sees to any squiring needs they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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