Praetor Xyn

Unknown / Double Identities

119 posts in this topic

Alleras - Sarella Sand

Sandor Clegane - The gravedigger

the mad mouse - ??

The Harpy - The Green Grace

Mel  - Melony Seastar

The Night King - Stark?

Varys - Rugen the jailer - Viserys Brightflame(only the dragon shall know the secrets of the red keep)

Aegon - Blackfyre

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2017 at 2:51 PM, Praetor Xyn said:

I know this has probably been discussed before, but I thought it would be fun to create a list of  characters who might not be who they appear along with people's theories on who they might be. I don't mind justifications being given, but I don't want this thread to be a back and forth debate about who someone is.

To sort things a bit, we can categorize these into unknown identities, where we know no public identity for them, and double identities, people we have a name and identity for that may have a true name and other identity we do not know.

The ones I can think of are below. Note that I'm using multiple question marks to indicate I have no idea, and undecided to indicate I haven't decided between multiple theories.

Unknown Identities:

  • The Hooded Man - Undecided
  • The Corsair King - ???
  • The Shrouded Lord - Gerion Lannister
  • Quaithe - Undecided
  • Coldhands - ???

Double Identities:

  • Septon Lemore - Ashara Dayne
  • Daario Naharis - Many believe he's Euron Greyjoy
  • Lem Lemoncloak - Ser Richard Lonmouth
  • Haldon Halfmaester - Wales Flowers
  • The Alchemist / "Pate" - Jaqen H'Ghar

Hooded Man- Theon Durden or Harwin

Corsair King- Gerion Lannister 

Shrouded Lord- ???

Quaithe- ???

Coldhands- Unknown Raven's teeth captain

Septa Lemore- Tyene's mom

Daario- Daario

Lem- Lonmouth, a nobody, or a bastard of House Dalt...which is the same as a nobody.

Haldon- Haldon 

Alchemist- The Jaq attack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/7/2017 at 10:36 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Alleras - Sarella Sand

Sandor Clegane - The gravedigger

the mad mouse - ??

The Harpy - The Green Grace

Mel  - Melony Seastar

The Night King - Stark?

Varys - Rugen the jailer - Viserys Brightflame(only the dragon shall know the secrets of the red keep)

Aegon - Blackfyre

 

 

Yes

Yes

Agreed

Or Melony's mother

Agreed

It is known

Maybe

On 3/8/2017 at 1:35 AM, The Fresh PtwP said:

<snip

Septa Lemore- Tyene's mom

<snip

This has been disproven. Arianne went with Tyene once to visit her mother in the Reach. They couldn't have done that if she'd been off in Essos educating Aegon on the Faith of the Seven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elder Brother - ?????  Could be a known historical figure.

Sailor's Wife - Tysha.  I don't think she is, but many readers do.

 

Septa Lemore - Ashara Dayne.  Tyrion clearly thinks she is someone he knows of, and I don't think the lack of eye color or her age is enough to eliminate Ashara.

Hooded Man - ????  I am pretty sure it is someone we have met.

Lem Lemoncleak - Richard Lonmouth.   makes sense to me

Daario Naharis and Ser Shadrick "Mad Mouse" - Nobody in particular.  They are who they appear to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Yes

Yes

Agreed

Or Melony's mother

Agreed

It is known

Maybe

This has been disproven. Arianne went with Tyene once to visit her mother in the Reach. They couldn't have done that if she'd been off in Essos educating Aegon on the Faith of the Seven.

Ahh yes, well I don't know then. Thinking about it more though, Tyrion pretty much deduces that she isn't who she claims to be...and for her background to not be revealed it would have to IMO be pretty important. She's a head scratcher for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2017 at 5:51 PM, Praetor Xyn said:
  • The Corsair King - ???
  • The Shrouded Lord - Gerion Lannister
  • Quaithe - Undecided

Every time I see somebody bring up this "Gerion Lannister is the Shrouded Lord" thing, my eyes roll so hard that they fall off my damn skull.
I know it's fun to theorize about wild stuff and the long wait 'till the next book isn't helping but jesus christ people. There's like negative 0000000.1% proof for this one. Not everyone that disappears from our story is some hidden powerful figure waiting to come back. The Shrouded Lord is literally just a myth, like the lion of the night or any other god/devil in our story.
And even if he WAS someone we knew.. what purpose would he serve to Tyrion's story? He's not gonna sail back down the Rhoyne any time soon. 

Same thing with the Corsair King. He's just a background figure we hear about to flesh out this new area of the world. There is no set Corsair King, in fact there have been a lot of them. They're just some pirate whose goal seems to be raiding random ports throughout the world.

As for Quaithe, she does appear to be a more prominent character, but in the end, I don't think she'll turn out to be anyone from Westeros' past. Quaithe is just Quaithe, a sorceress that took notice of Dany and is taking an interest in her. It's possible that she's been working with Marwyn. In fact she may have been the one to first alert him about Dany through the glass candles, but that's really it. 
Her being Ashara Dayne or Shiera Seastar or whoever else would just be lame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

Every time I see somebody bring up this "Gerion Lannister is the Shrouded Lord" thing, my eyes roll so hard that they fall off my damn skull.
I know it's fun to theorize about wild stuff and the long wait 'till the next book isn't helping but jesus christ people. There's like negative 0000000.1% proof for this one. Not everyone that disappears from our story is some hidden powerful figure waiting to come back. The Shrouded Lord is literally just a myth, like the lion of the night or any other god/devil in our story.
And even if he WAS someone we knew.. what purpose would he serve to Tyrion's story? He's not gonna sail back down the Rhoyne any time soon. 

Same thing with the Corsair King. He's just a background figure we hear about to flesh out this new area of the world. There is no set Corsair King, in fact there have been a lot of them. They're just some pirate whose goal seems to be raiding random ports throughout the world.

As for Quaithe, she does appear to be a more prominent character, but in the end, I don't think she'll turn out to be anyone from Westeros' past. Quaithe is just Quaithe, a sorceress that took notice of Dany and is taking an interest in her. It's possible that she's been working with Marwyn. In fact she may have been the one to first alert him about Dany through the glass candles, but that's really it. 
Her being Ashara Dayne or Shiera Seastar or whoever else would just be lame.

I agree with most of what you have to say about Quaithe, except I think she's working with Euron. Euron is the most threatening figure Moqorro sees coming to Dany, but he is the only one Quaithe doesn't warn Dany about. Also, Euron has picked up Pyat Pree and the other wizards. For him to have done that he would have had to be in the Qarth/Slaver's Bay area around the time Dany was there. So it is definitely possible that Euron and Quaithe have met.

Is it possible that Marwin and Quaithe have met, but time spent in Asshai is the only known similarity between these two characters. As far as who told Marwin about Dany, it was Sam. Marwin may have seen something through the glass candles, but it wasn't until he talked to Sam that he felt the need to head to Dany immediately. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

<snip

As for Quaithe, she does appear to be a more prominent character, but in the end, I don't think she'll turn out to be anyone from Westeros' past. Quaithe is just Quaithe, a sorceress that took notice of Dany and is taking an interest in her. It's possible that she's been working with Marwyn. In fact she may have been the one to first alert him about Dany through the glass candles, but that's really it. 
Her being Ashara Dayne or Shiera Seastar or whoever else would just be lame.

No faith in the author's ability to make it work and not be lame?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bent branch said:

I agree with most of what you have to say about Quaithe, except I think she's working with Euron. Euron is the most threatening figure Moqorro sees coming to Dany, but he is the only one Quaithe doesn't warn Dany about. Also, Euron has picked up Pyat Pree and the other wizards. For him to have done that he would have had to be in the Qarth/Slaver's Bay area around the time Dany was there. So it is definitely possible that Euron and Quaithe have met.

Is it possible that Marwin and Quaithe have met, but time spent in Asshai is the only known similarity between these two characters. As far as who told Marwin about Dany, it was Sam. Marwin may have seen something through the glass candles, but it wasn't until he talked to Sam that he felt the need to head to Dany immediately. 

Well, Quaithe does warn her about not trusting the "kraken." The more obvious choice is Victarion, but it may also be a plural and hint at Euron. 

Her working with Euron is not a bad theory though. It would explain a lot of things, like how Euron threw all of his resources towards getting Dany so fast into the game and ahead of everyone else. He was actively working towards becoming king of the Iron Islands -- the first step to marrying her -- back when most of Westeros just thought she was a made-up story. He would have had to hire a faceless man right around the time she was leaving Qarth; we know Balon died somewhat early into the third book, around the time when Dany was haggling for Unsullied in Astapor. So how and why was he so sure about this girl before everyone else? Quaithe telling him about it while she was leaving Qarth would tie it all together. Also the Pyat Pree connection. It would mean Euron trusts her and knows her well enough to launch this whole scheme into action. 

2 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

No faith in the author's ability to make it work and not be lame?

None at all. 
There's already enough people coming back from the past. We don't need Ashara Dayne melodrama or whatever it is Shiera would bring to the table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-03-07 at 9:33 AM, bent branch said:

Hooded Man = Harwin. I have gone through thinking he was many different people. However, a re-read made me think their speech patterns were similar and someone (I wish I could remember who, I like to give credit when I can) was persist in giving a good argument and convinced me.

Septa Lemore = Ashara Dayne. I am convinced on this one. It is the only answer that makes sense to me.

Daario Naharis = descendent of Daemon Blackfyre's second daughter.

Haldon Halfmaester = the maester of the Dun Fort at the time of the Defiance at Duskendale. I really have no evidence for this except there was a different maester in the Dun Fort at the time of the Defiance and could potentially be the only person left alive who could say what happened from the POV of those inside the Dun Fort.

How did Ashara change her eye colour?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Sailor's wife is obviously Gerion's wife - he is the sailor which means Lanna is the probable heir to Casterly rock.

Gerion will return with Brightroar in time to fight the others - he may give the sword to Tyrion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Sigella said:

How did Ashara change her eye colour?

We don't know Lemore's eye color.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, bent branch said:

We don't know Lemore's eye color.

Don't we? Aren't they brown? 

 

edit: Tyrion surely would have noticed  "haunting violet" and he didn't so I think she hasn't.

 

IMO Lemore is more likely to be Lyanna or Melisandres long lost daughter Melony...

Edited by Sigella

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Sigella said:

Don't we? Aren't they brown? 

 

edit: Tyrion surely would have noticed  "haunting violet" and he didn't so I think she hasn't.

 

IMO Lemore is more likely to be Lyanna or Melisandres long lost daughter Melony...

By that logic Tyrion should have noticed the resemblance to Jon and Arya (mostly Jon since he didn't interact with Arya much, if at all) and commented on it. Since he didn't Lyanna is out. There's also that whole she died in her brother's arms thing to contend with. Conclusion:  Lemore = Lyanna is much, much, much less likely than Lemore = Ashara.

As for Melony, we don't know whether Melony is Melisandre's daughter, Melisandre herself, or really what her connection to Melisandre is at all (although Melony is probably Melisandre herself). Furthermore, how would Melony instruct someone in the Faith of the Seven since Melony was sold to a Red Temple and would therefore be a Priestess of R'hllor? Conclusion: Lemore = Melony is not at all likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Red Man Racey said:

By that logic Tyrion should have noticed the resemblance to Jon and Arya (mostly Jon since he didn't interact with Arya much, if at all) and commented on it. Since he didn't Lyanna is out. There's also that whole she died in her brother's arms thing to contend with. Conclusion:  Lemore = Lyanna is much, much, much less likely than Lemore = Ashara.

As for Melony, we don't know whether Melony is Melisandre's daughter, Melisandre herself, or really what her connection to Melisandre is at all (although Melony is probably Melisandre herself). Furthermore, how would Melony instruct someone in the Faith of the Seven since Melony was sold to a Red Temple and would therefore be a Priestess of R'hllor? Conclusion: Lemore = Melony is not at all likely.

Faking your death is way easier than changing your eye-colour/ finding someone to glamour it.

 

We dont know what happened to Melony and we dont know who she is in relation to Melisandre - and not knowing provides a better chance than a character who has to be changed with magic to work.

That said, I'm well aware that this is a story where magic and glamours do occur, but still: so far as we know there are only 3  possible ways:

Melisandres glamour-tricks,

the Faceless Men's faces and

Bran + Varamyr skin changing humans

I'd pretty much rule out the FM and skinchanging  so that leaves us with glamour, which needs some form of jewellery or other clothing but Lemore doesn't wear anything in her morning bath routine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  1. Howland Reed = Ser Shadrech
  2. Mance Rayder Junior = Jon Snow
  3. Brandon Stark + Catelyn Tully = Secret Lovechild = Robb Stark
  4. Petyr Baelish Junior = Robert Arryn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/03/2017 at 7:51 PM, Praetor Xyn said:

Daario Naharis - Many believe he's Euron Greyjoy

seriously?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 07/03/2017 at 9:02 AM, Orphalesion said:
On 06/03/2017 at 7:51 PM, Praetor Xyn said:

Unknown Identities:

  • The Hooded Man - Mance Rayder
  • The Corsair King - Dude from Essos because not everyone has to be sometone else in disguise.
  • The Shrouded Lord - Some Dude from Essos, because this isn't "Days of Our Lives"
  • Quaithe - Some Gal from Asshai, because not everthing has to be interconnected.
  • Coldhands - ???

Double Identities:

  • Septon Lemore - Septa Lemore, see above
  • Daario Naharis - Daario Naharis, because this isn't "the Bold and the Beautiful"
  • Lem Lemoncloak - Who cares? Probably nobody connected to any mystery of meaningful double identities.
  • Haldon Halfmaester - Haldon Halfmaester
  • The Alchemist / "Pate" - Jaqen H'Ghar (yeah pretty much)

Fixed

Thank god! someone is sane on these forums

I will just add one more thing:

On 06/03/2017 at 7:51 PM, Praetor Xyn said:

Coldhands - No one important, just a random ranger raised by bloodraven to help him bring Bran, probably someone who served him in the Night's Watch

 

Edited by The Hammer of Justice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

 

I will just add one more thing:

 

Good point about Coldhands, I forgot that one of the Children of the FOrest tells us that he has been dead a long time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Sigella said:

Don't we? Aren't they brown? 

 

edit: Tyrion surely would have noticed  "haunting violet" and he didn't so I think she hasn't.

 

IMO Lemore is more likely to be Lyanna or Melisandres long lost daughter Melony...

We don't know. GRRM revealed only as much about Lemore's appearance as he wants the reader to know at this point. If GRRM didn't want Tyrion to notice Lemore's eyes he would have exposed Lemore's breasts for Tyrion to stare at. Oh, wait, he did.

When the reveal on Lemore's identity is made, GRRM wants the reader to go "Wow! What?" not "Who?". Ashara is the only missing female in the book that could elicit that response in the average reader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.