The Brave Wolf

Why is Jon Snow the favourite Stark (usually)?

149 posts in this topic

He's the Classic Hero. Some may find him boring because of that, but there's a reason so many protagonists occupy this archetype. A dash of underdog doesn't hurt, either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Darkstream said:

Again, positing your subjective opinion (or more aptly, your desire and wish) as fact. As far as one can make a claim on such a subjective matter, according to the text, as BRANDON GREYSTARK pointed out, Jon is not considered to be noticeably handsome.

Are you stalking me or just being weird? If not you would had read what I had wrote. In either case tho stop it, it;s getting annoying.

11 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

According to the books AGOT and ACOK  , Jon looks like Eddard . And Eddard  looked plain according to Catelyn .

Again read what I wrote;

18 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

He had the Stark look but that doesn't mean that he isn't handsome, especially since we have seen how many women has looked him twice.

We know that he looks like Arya and Arya like Lyanna hence Jon looks like Lyanna and even Kevan said that Lyanna was a wild beauty. I am not saying that he is gorgeous, I am saying  that he isn’t plain and boring looking, he can’t be like that with the scar anyway, it’s  his demeanor which makes him look like that.

8 hours ago, Take Me 2 Your Leader said:
  • He is a deserter who had to be brought back by the other boys.

The point is that he got back.

8 hours ago, Take Me 2 Your Leader said:
  • His idea of justice is fickle.  He executed Slynt but allowed Mance Rayder to walk because of personal reasons.  There was no justice in that.  Slynt's crime is very minor compared to what Mance Rayder has done.

A corrupt baby killer was killed after commited insubordination more than once and he was given multiple chances to do the right thing and he didn’t cared.

Mance on the other hand died on the fire. It’s not Jon’s fault that Mance was glamour and how you can kill someone twice?  

8 hours ago, Take Me 2 Your Leader said:
  1. Jon attacked the Boltons, unprovoked.  Sending your wildling to steal the wife of a nobleman is an act of war.  This is nothing less than treason and a violation of Night's Watch code.
Quote

 I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.

You are right, unprovoked.

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Are you stalking me or just being weird? If not you would had read what I had wrote. In either case tho stop it, it;s getting annoying.

Excuse me!! What kind of a ridiculous and absurd remark is that? I really don't appreciate you making such an unfounded and frivolous accusation towards me.

If you cannot handle the scrutiny that comes as a result of the biased and factually incorrect comments that you constantly make, then perhaps you should consider not posting them in a public forum.

And just because you cannot adequately defend your position on a particular matter, that does not give you the right to make offensive accusations in order to deflect from your ineffectual arguments. Please do try to refrain from such classless and desperate tactics. It really doesn't help your case at all.

Edited by Darkstream

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

Excuse me!! What kind of a ridiculous and absurd remark is that? I really don't appreciate you making such an unfounded and frivolous accusation towards me.

If you cannot handle the scrutiny that comes as a result of the biased and factually incorrect comments that you constantly make, then perhaps you should consider not posting them in a public forum.

And just because you cannot adequately defend your position on a particular matter, that does not give you the right to make offensive accusations in order to deflect from your ineffectual arguments. Please do try to refrain from such classless and desperate tactics. It really doesn't help your case at all.

Then maybe you should had chosen your wording better and actually read what I have written. A boring looking man whould had made many women look him like Jon has and we know that Jon looks like Lyanna who was a "wild beauty".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon's my favourite character, and I am unapologetic about the fact that I love me some underdog, badass with a special sword and a huge wolf. 

Sorry not sorry. 

Sansa is my second favourite of the Starks

Then Arya

Then Bran

Then Cat

Then Ned

Then Rickon. 

And yes, I agree with Jons Queen Consort. Jon is attractive. It is very evident by the way those around him speak to and of him.  And whilst he looks more like Ned than any of his true-born sons according to Cat, that doesn't mean he is a carbon copy of Ned. Many people upon seeing Jon for the first time comment upon him having the classic Stark look. But as we see with Brandon & Lyanna that doesn't mean he's plain. Both of them are described as attractive and sexually alluring. From the reactions of the women who interact with Jon I think it is pretty obvious that he is growing into a very good looking man.  

Ygritte comments upon his pretty face, Alys makes it clear she found him more attractive than Robb when she had been taken to Winterfell as a child. And she flirts with Jon quite a lot. Val flirts with him too, and is very open about it. Mellisandre tries to seduce him.  And I think IIRC that some men too comment on Jon's pretty looks. In a manner which suggests resentment of his good looks.

He is Lyanna's son, and she was indeed a wild beauty, and he is also the son of Rhaegar Targaryen, a man whose good looks went beyond just being a bit fit.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Take Me 2 Your Leader said:

There are numerous good reasons to dislike Jon.  I don't like him. 

  1. He is a deserter who had to be brought back by the other boys.
  2. His idea of justice is fickle.  He executed Slynt but allowed Mance Rayder to walk because of personal reasons.  There was no justice in that.  Slynt's crime is very minor compared to what Mance Rayder has done.
  3. Jon attacked the Boltons, unprovoked.  Sending your wildling to steal the wife of a nobleman is an act of war.  This is nothing less than treason and a violation of Night's Watch code.

1.His father was just killed. Plus it wasn't hard for his friends to bring him back. and this shows he isn't perfect and human.

2.slynt was a complete a**. He locked jon in an ice cell and only did it because jon was a threat to his power (he didn't truly care jon had slept with a wildling). Jon gave him three chances to obey an order and each time slynt not only refused but insulted his commander. He was well within his rights. Mance rayder was trying to lead his people to safety. Yes he attacked the wall and such but considering the fact they are running from the others it is understandable and justified. But I will say it was a little bit of him being biased.

 

3.He didn't order the attack on the boltons. He would likely have done nothing if it came to him having to use the nights watch to do it. And cosidering it was obvious that arya didn't marry him by choice (he didn't know it wasn't arya) I think it should be overlooked. And he learns how evil ramsey his I don't think he should be blamed. On the other hand when ramsey wrote the letter threatening the nights watch he started the dispute. My complaint about how jon handeled the situation is he could have easily told his men he had to leave because his being there threatened the nights watch or something along those lines. but instead of only asking the wildlings and such he asked for the nights watch men to help if they chose. And he announced it to everyone at the same time in a call to arms type of thing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Then maybe you should had chosen your wording better and actually read what I have written. A boring looking man whould had made many women look him like Jon has and we know that Jon looks like Lyanna who was a "wild beauty".

I have read what you wrote and the wording in my response is perfectly acceptable. Your response is the one which is offensive and out of line.

Now take a look at the response that @The Weirwoods Eyes gave. She posted an intelligent, mature, and convincing argument to counter the assertion that I made. Reading her comment's on the matter, I have to admit that I may be wrong, and perhaps Jon is more attractive than I had originally thought.

Your responses continually avoid addressing any points brought up by me or other posters that challenge you, and more often than not, contradict what is stated in the text. Perhaps you are the one that should read what is being said to you, and try to word your responses in a more applicable, and less offensive manner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon deserved the execution that he got.  He has trouble keeping to the rules. 

7 hours ago, snow is the man said:

1.His father was just killed. Plus it wasn't hard for his friends to bring him back. and this shows he isn't perfect and human.

He's not simply an imperfect human.  He's extremely flawed.  He has trouble sticking to the rules when it conflicts with the interest of his Stark family. 

2.slynt was a complete a**. He locked jon in an ice cell and only did it because jon was a threat to his power (he didn't truly care jon had slept with a wildling). Jon gave him three chances to obey an order and each time slynt not only refused but insulted his commander. He was well within his rights. Mance rayder was trying to lead his people to safety. Yes he attacked the wall and such but considering the fact they are running from the others it is understandable and justified. But I will say it was a little bit of him being biased.

Slynt was a jerk and yes he initially refused to follow an order.  Killing Slynt by itself is not the tragedy that makes Jon's brand of justice terribly "unjust" and inconsistent.  It's that he let Mance Rayder off the hook so he can use the man to help out Arya.  Mance's crimes against the Watch and against Westeros are a thousand times worse than Slynt's.  Jon's ethics and his judgment are faulty.  He doesn't deserve to be in a position of leadership.  He let the bigger criminal go in order to serve his personal interest. 

3.He didn't order the attack on the boltons. He would likely have done nothing if it came to him having to use the nights watch to do it. And cosidering it was obvious that arya didn't marry him by choice (he didn't know it wasn't arya) I think it should be overlooked. And he learns how evil ramsey his I don't think he should be blamed. On the other hand when ramsey wrote the letter threatening the nights watch he started the dispute. My complaint about how jon handeled the situation is he could have easily told his men he had to leave because his being there threatened the nights watch or something along those lines. but instead of only asking the wildlings and such he asked for the nights watch men to help if they chose. And he announced it to everyone at the same time in a call to arms type of thing

Whether Ramsay is evil or not doesn't matter.  He is still under the protection of the Night's Watch and Jon had no right to interfere with his marriage.  Jon had no right to send the wildlings to help his sister out of an unwanted marriage.  That was treason.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 08/03/2017 at 2:18 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

A crime he says he didn't commit. He may or may not actually be innocent. And sleeping with a nobleman's daughter could have gotten him killed. He got off easy with joining the Night's Watch. Real singers in the medieval world did not have that option.

He chose to take the vow. He could just as easily have chosen not to do so and faced the punishment. 

He clearly was not beyond the reach of said vow. I don't recall anything in the text that said the NW deserter's life is forfeit...unless he leaves the country. 

"All he did" was ditch his responsibilities, steal money that wasn't his, and desert Sam at a time when he most needed help. If all he wanted was to make a better life for himself he could have not taken the money, helped Sam deal with everything until ship-out time, and just not gotten on the boat when Sam and Gilly left Braavos. He also could have been smart enough to ditch the blacks so nobody would know he was ever in the NW.

We have no reason to disbelieve him, he seemed genuine in that statement. And joining the crazy border patrol cult in the worst place of Westeros is not "coming off lightly" Exile to Essos would have been "coming off lightly".

His punishment would have been death, likely, people will do all sorts of things in the face of death.

It's a Westerosi vow. The laws of Westeros have no meaning in Essos.

He was acting rashly and could have gone over the whole thing more thoroughly and rationally, yes, but that still doesn't give Arya the right to play Judge, Jury and Executioner and enforce her idea of how people should live on others.

Imho he had no responsibilities towards the Night's Watch. Nobody who is forced/pressured to go to the Wall has it. The whole organization is simply ridiculous.

If he had one flaw then it was that he failed to recognize the consequences of his actions, but he was young. Given time he might have grown out of that. Now he'll never have the chance. Thanks, Arya!

On 12/03/2017 at 3:07 AM, Take Me 2 Your Leader said:

There are numerous good reasons to dislike Jon.  I don't like him. 

  1. He is a deserter who had to be brought back by the other boys.
  2. His idea of justice is fickle.  He executed Slynt but allowed Mance Rayder to walk because of personal reasons.  There was no justice in that.  Slynt's crime is very minor compared to what Mance Rayder has done.
  3. Jon attacked the Boltons, unprovoked.  Sending your wildling to steal the wife of a nobleman is an act of war.  This is nothing less than treason and a violation of Night's Watch code.

PFFFT.

1. The only bad thing he did in that situation was going back to the "boys" and leaving Yigritte to die. 

2.Janos Slynt was guilty of many crimes and untrustworthy. Mance Rayder is an important ally in the wars to come. The survival of humanity is more important than some meaningless words he recited to a tree.

3. Jon wanted to save his sister from a insane torture rapist. The Night's Watch "code" is nothing but a joke that stopped being funny long before the Targaryens showed up.

 

Edited by Orphalesion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Darkstream said:

snip

I am kind to those who are kind to me and rude to those who are rude. If you don’t like my opinion then don’t quote me on the first place. Which because you bored me I would asked you to do; Never refer to me in any way, no by my name, not by any kind of pronouns, no quoting nothing. If you do it after I have clearly stated that I don’t like it, is offensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I am kind to those who are kind to me and rude to those who are rude. If you don’t like my opinion then don’t quote me on the first place. Which because you bored me I would asked you to do; Never refer to me in any way, no by my name, not by any kind of pronouns, no quoting nothing. If you do it after I have clearly stated that I don’t like it, is offensive.

I'm sorry, but you don't have the right to tell me what I'm allowed to respond to on a public forum. Like I said, if you cannot handle the scrutiny that comes with posting inaccurate and bias comments, then you shouldn't post them on a public discussion board.

I never said anything rude or inappropriate to you. If you find the truth, and getting called out on your bs offensive, that is your issue, not mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

We have no reason to disbelieve him, he seemed genuine in that statement. And joining the crazy border patrol cult in the worst place of Westeros is not "coming off lightly" Exile to Essos would have been "coming off lightly".

His punishment would have been death, likely, people will do all sorts of things in the face of death.

It's a Westerosi vow. The laws of Westeros have no meaning in Essos.

He was acting rashly and could have gone over the whole thing more thoroughly and rationally, yes, but that still doesn't give Arya the right to play Judge, Jury and Executioner and enforce her idea of how people should live on others.

Imho he had no responsibilities towards the Night's Watch. Nobody who is forced/pressured to go to the Wall has it. The whole organization is simply ridiculous.

If he had one flaw then it was that he failed to recognize the consequences of his actions, but he was young. Given time he might have grown out of that. Now he'll never have the chance. Thanks, Arya!

For being such a small background character, you seem to have a lot of interest in defending Dareon's actions of all people. Is he your favorite character or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like people here dislike Jon for two main reasons:

1.  He's too much of a good guy hero narrative #soboring #cliche

2.  He acts like a normal human with emotions and making decisions for himself and family when they are against his vows.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, Winter prince said:

It seems like people here dislike Jon for two main reasons:

1.  He's too much of a good guy hero narrative #soboring #cliche

2.  He acts like a normal human with emotions and making decisions for himself and family when they are against his vows.

 

Jon would be fine farming and tending sheep.  However, it is obvious that he is not fit for command nor is he fit to rule.  He put the interest of Robb ahead of his duties at the wall.  He's a raw recruit you say and didn't know any better.  The greatest sin came later when he became lord commander.  He put the interest of Arya ahead of defending the realm of man.  For a lord commander to commit the violations that he did is an extreme violation of Nightwatch rules.  It was the worst crime ever committed by a lord commander and is on the same level as what the Night King did.  I would say worse than the Night King.  At least the NK didn't send out his war party to attack the noble houses in the north.  

Edited by Widowmaker 811

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Darkstream said:

I'm sorry, but you don't have the right to tell me what I'm allowed to respond to on a public forum. Like I said, if you cannot handle the scrutiny that comes with posting inaccurate and bias comments, then you shouldn't post them on a public discussion board.

I never said anything rude or inappropriate to you. If you find the truth, and getting called out on your bs offensive, that is your issue, not mine.

Ok I will tell it kindly one more time. Stop referring to me in every possible way because it is offensive since the only time you do it is in order to attack me. So I would kindly ask you to stop doing it in every possible way, quoting, referring by name or by pronouns and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

26 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Ok I will tell it kindly one more time. Stop referring to me in every possible way because it is offensive since the only time you do it is in order to attack me. So I would kindly ask you to stop doing it in every possible way, quoting, referring by name or by pronouns and so on.

 

Wow, you really do have trouble comprehending what people say to you. I'll try again.

I'm sorry, but you don't have the right to tell me what I'm allowed to respond to on a public forum. Like I said, if you cannot handle the scrutiny that comes with posting inaccurate and bias comments, then you shouldn't post them on a public discussion board.

I never said anything rude or inappropriate to you. If you find the truth, and getting called out on your bs offensive, that is your issue, not mine.

 

Edited by Darkstream

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Jon would be fine farming and tending sheep.  However, it is obvious that he is not fit for command nor is he fit to rule.  He put the interest of Robb ahead of his duties at the wall.  He's a raw recruit you say and didn't know any better.  The greatest sin came later when he became lord commander.  He put the interest of Arya ahead of defending the realm of man.  For a lord commander to commit the violations that he did is an extreme violation of Nightwatch rules.  It was the worst crime ever committed by a lord commander and is on the same level as what the Night King did.  I would say worse than the Night King.  At least the NK didn't send out his war party to attack the noble houses in the north.  

You're right it would have been much simpler if he took over the North by marrying Val and joining Stannis.  Then he wouldn't have to worry about violating the Night's Watch vows because he would be above them.

Commanding is difficult and poor decisions are made.  That doesn't make him a bad character 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Winter prince said:

You're right it would have been much simpler if he took over the North by marrying Val and joining Stannis.  Then he wouldn't have to worry about violating the Night's Watch vows because he would be above them.

Commanding is difficult and poor decisions are made.  That doesn't make him a bad character 

It doesn't necessarily make him an evil character but it does make him unfit to rule over other men.  He would be fine tending animals and living a simple life in the forest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

It doesn't necessarily make him an evil character but it does make him unfit to rule over other men.  He would be fine tending animals and living a simple life in the forest.

I could see unfit to rule.  He's not my vote to sit the Iron Throne by any means. He rose too high too fast, and didn't have the best counsel. 

But settling The Gift with wildlings was a great choice, and not commanding the night's watch to go to war with him was a better one.  He made himself an oathbreaker but not everyone below him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.