Good Guy Garlan

My kingdom for a convincing explanation for this

49 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I'm down with Varys having dragonblood but as he is supposedly against all things magical, and we have no indication of him having dragon dreams, I have to agree that it would be unlikely for him.

Only the gods know what game Littlefinger Illyrio is playing.

Funny you should say that. Narratively speaking, I think Illyrio serves a similar role in the second main conflict of ASOIAF to the role Petyr played in the first. 

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44 minutes ago, Makk said:

This doesn't worry me too much, it is just Jorah's musings. The big stickler to me about Varys and Illyrio wanting Drogo to invade after engineering Danys death, is what Tristan Rivers says...

"Which plan?" said Tristan Rivers. "The fat man's plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.

I guess it's possible that Tristan was told something false, but I can't see the point of that.

Tristan Rivers was told that the Dothraki would join the Golden Company, not fight against them. 

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Tristan Rivers was told that the Dothraki would join the Golden Company, not fight against them. 

Exactly. And that casts doubt on the idea that Varys and Illyrio intended the Dothraki to invade Westeros before Aegon.

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2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Tristan Rivers was told that the Dothraki would join the Golden Company, not fight against them. 

 

30 minutes ago, Makk said:

Exactly. And that casts doubt on the idea that Varys and Illyrio intended the Dothraki to invade Westeros before Aegon.

He also says the plan changed many times, and there is an assumption being made here that Ilyrio is telling them everything.  If I wanted people to do something dangerous, it would probably be easier to get them to do it by telling them the Dothraki would be on their side rather than against them. 

However if Aegon showed up with Dothraki that raided the country he would not be seen favorably. I'm also not sure how they would get the Dothraki to leave or control them in any way.

Similar to the idea that the Dothraki would raid and Aegon would save the day, is the idea that the Dothraki would weaken Westeros enough that the Golden company and any Targ supporters they could gather would be able to defeat what was left.

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43 minutes ago, Makk said:

Exactly. And that casts doubt on the idea that Varys and Illyrio intended the Dothraki to invade Westeros before Aegon.

Oh, sorry. I thought you suggested the opposite. 

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14 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Oh, sorry. I thought you suggested the opposite. 

No. I do like the theory other than that line though. If you took that out I think it generally makes the most sense with what we know.

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9 minutes ago, Makk said:

No. I do like the theory other than that line though. If you took that out I think it generally makes the most sense with what we know.

See, I am assumimg that Drogo was inspired by Attila the Hun, who was a pretty sophisticated actor despite his barbaric reputation. Think back on the ending of that first Daenerys chapter. That was Drogo’s manse in Pentos. And all those foreign characters, including the brother of the Archon of Tyrosh and the red priest were guests in his manse. I would not want to give that kind of a man a more recognizable rival with a bigger army and a head start. Would you? 

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When Dany received the eggs, they were petrified. Illyrio gave her some fancy rocks, along with some silks and things. Pretty, shiny things for a young girl. It's been years since a Targaryen hatched a dragon, and they had been trying with fresher eggs than Dany's. No one could have predicted the chain events which lead to Dany hatching her eggs. Illyrio's gift was intended to be one of style over substance.

If the eggs were intended to be an essentially useless gift, it would make sense for Illyrio to give them to Dany rather than Aegon, The Last Great Hope. Giving Dany the eggs ensured her loyalty, in case she survived the Dothraki Sea, but Aegon already owes his entire cause to Illyrio, and is Argon is ultimately the one getting his true support. 

Still a little plot holey, but no more than many other unexplained things. 

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