Towers by the sea

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

It's probably been said before, but could Mel's vision of towers by the sea be Harrenhal?

[Beren_One_Hand]

Given how much she miss interrupts her visions, it's possible she's seeing the God's Eye as a sea.

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

It's probably been said before, but could Mel's vision of towers by the sea be Harrenhal?

Why would be Harrenhal?

Let's look at what Mel saw:

Quote

Visions danced before her, gold and scarlet, flickering, forming and melting and dissolving into one another, shapes strange and terrifying and seductive. She saw the eyeless faces again, staring out at her from sockets weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows wheeled against a hard blue sky.

and her interpretation

Quote

"If it comes, that attack will be no more than a diversion. I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. That is where the heaviest blow will fall."

My guess it's Oldtown and some shit Euron will do.

[Beren_One_Hand]

@rotting sea cow

My only argument against what you're saying is that we have already seen the Iron Born as described as the "sea rising over the walls of Winterfell" in Jojen's greendream about the fall of Winterfell. Either Martin is just repurposing this symbolism to foreshadow what Euron is about to do in Oldtown or it is about something else.

[Cymorococh]

Definitely Oldtown/Hightowers for me.

But then I'm sort of obsessed with the Hightowers.

[rotting sea cow]

26 minutes ago, Beren_One_Hand said:

@rotting sea cow

My only argument against what you're saying is that we have already seen the Iron Born as described as the "sea rising over the walls of Winterfell" in Jojen's greendream about the fall of Winterfell. Either Martin is just repurposing this symbolism to foreshadow what Euron is about to do in Oldtown or it is about something else.

??? I don't see the contradiction, unless you mean it can be any other fortress further inland taken by the ironborn.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't see your comment above. So, you think it's Harrenhal and the God's Eye is "the sea".

Mmmm, I don't think it is what Mel saw, but I also think that Euron will go at some point to Harrenhal and make a hole of the metaphysical crack that currently exists there. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

I believe there is another relevant quote.  I think it is Jon who asks her if that means Eastwatch, and she thinks to herself about the # of towers and thinks it doesn't match perfectly but says yes anyway.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

1 hour ago, Beren_One_Hand said:

Given how much she miss interrupts her visions, it's possible she's seeing the God's Eye as a sea.

Yes, that is what I was getting at. And Harrenhal has some big ol' towers thur.

I mean, there's no way of being certain about it, and it may be a bit of a stretch. I thought I'd just throw it out there.

Plus, the "black and bloody tide" isn't the same merely watery tide that engulfs Winterfell in Jojen's dream. So while one meant the Ironborn, the other might not.

And that's if Jojen's dream was really about the Ironborn at all, Preston Jacobs makes a good case that (a) the dream was slightly inaccurate and (b) metaphorical prophecy tends to be non-falsifiable. Anything, squinted at hard enough, could fit a sufficiently vague prophecy.

So who knows if we'll even get a proper answer to this, or what it'll add up to. Maybe it's only there to show us that Melisandre is frontin'.

All that being said:

We will definitely be returning to Harrenhal at some point, and learning what the gravy Black Harren was up to. I think it's no coincidence that Harrenhal is next to the Isle of Faces, or that it was once held by ancestors of our favourite protagonists, or that it's action at Harrenhal that seemingly precipitated Robert's Rebellion. Harrenhal sits at the nexus of so many plot strands - prophecy, politics, how the Ironborn fit into the big picture - that I think it's impossible we won't be seeing it again in some way.

And given that Euron is quite possibly primed to do some magical bullshit - and given that theory I read, I forget where, that Euron isn't going to attack Oldtown or the Redwynes at all but rather he will be splitting his forces into half a dozen or more and sending them raiding up every river in Westeros - and given that one of those rivers leads straight to the God's Eye - I think it's not impossible that Euron could lead some terrible magical Ironborn bullshit against the cursèd castle.

[Magnar of the Dreadfort]

"If it comes, that attack will be no more than a diversion. I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. That is where the heaviest blow will fall."

Is it possible this could be (f)Aegons assault on Storms End?

"Black and Bloody" = Black and Red

These are the colours of houses Targaryen and Blackfyre.

[Curled Finger]

Spoiler

But Euron has already left Old Town or the Shields, hasn't he? 

With that in mind we need to look around the southern shores of the Reach and Dorne.   If there are no towers there we have to determine if the next closest place is West or North up the eastern coast of Westeros.   Braavos?  

These longboats are really long, capable of holding over 100 men per.  Would these even fit in a river?  I'm thinking falls and sharp turns, rocks, trees and various fresh water detritus.  Euron doesn't value his fleet the way Vic and Asha do, but I don't think he's headed out of Westeros.     

Spoiler

Last I read Aeron was a hood ornament on the Silence.   Perhaps a river is a more likely place for him to survive???

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

7 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I believe there is another relevant quote.  I think it is Jon who asks her if that means Eastwatch, and she thinks to herself about the # of towers and thinks it doesn't match perfectly but says yes anyway.

Given her batting average, she may do better when she agrees to a less than perfect match. We all remember the gray girl on the dying horse, fleeing a marriage.

Could be Eastwatch. Could be Oldtown. Could be Harrenhal. Could be Starfall. 

[Renly's Banana]

I assumed at first that it was Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, but with Euron's.. uh.. more recent events, I'm guessing it's got to do with him and Oldtown. Specifically Euron vs. the Hightowers. 

God damn am I excited for Sam's stuff in the next book! Who woulda thought I'd ever be looking forward to his chapters.

[The Bastards Giant Friend]

Given Mel's track record, could she have this all reversed?

Pyke is a series of towers already crumbling by the sea. If Jon (the black/dark/crow) met Dany (the red/fire/bloody by a stretch) they could be the lustful bodies rolling in a tide mixing their colors and sweeping over their adversaries. Euron may already have one hollow socket, if he loses the other eye that socket will likely weep blood.

 

[Nevets]

7 hours ago, Magnar of the Dreadfort said:

"If it comes, that attack will be no more than a diversion. I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide. That is where the heaviest blow will fall."

Is it possible this could be (f)Aegons assault on Storms End?

"Black and Bloody" = Black and Red

These are the colours of houses Targaryen and Blackfyre.

They are also the colors of Euron's personal coat of arms - a red eye with a black pupil and crown.  It could be Euron's attack on Oldtown.  Mel obviously thinks it is an existential threat, which I doubt would apply to Aegon and Storms End.

[aryagonnakill#2]

6 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

  Hide contents

But Euron has already left Old Town or the Shields, hasn't he? 

With that in mind we need to look around the southern shores of the Reach and Dorne.   If there are no towers there we have to determine if the next closest place is West or North up the eastern coast of Westeros.   Braavos?  

These longboats are really long, capable of holding over 100 men per.  Would these even fit in a river?  I'm thinking falls and sharp turns, rocks, trees and various fresh water detritus.  Euron doesn't value his fleet the way Vic and Asha do, but I don't think he's headed out of Westeros.     

  Hide contents

Last I read Aeron was a hood ornament on the Silence.   Perhaps a river is a more likely place for him to survive???

 

Spoiler

He's currently just off the Arbor heading out against the Redwyn fleet, while the Hightower fleet has left Oldtown to try and attack them from the other side like Stannis did with Vic.  How they intend to time that properly is completely beyond me.

 

[Good Guy Garlan]

Gonna shamelessly plug my old thread about this. 

[Lord Wraith]

15 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Why would be Harrenhal?

Let's look at what Mel saw:

and her interpretation

My guess it's Oldtown and some shit Euron will do.

This would be my guess as well.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

But isn't the salient feature of Oldtown its large tower - that's tower, singular. Mel sees towers, plural, and she doesn't mention one being much bigger than the others.

Pyke works: the black and bloody tide could be Euron himself sweeping away the Ironborn. But now we're back to prophecy as metaphor.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

17 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

We will definitely be returning to Harrenhal at some point, and learning what the gravy Black Harren was up to. I think it's no coincidence that Harrenhal is next to the Isle of Faces, or that it was once held by ancestors of our favourite protagonists, or that it's action at Harrenhal that seemingly precipitated Robert's Rebellion. Harrenhal sits at the nexus of so many plot strands - prophecy, politics, how the Ironborn fit into the big picture - that I think it's impossible we won't be seeing it again in some way.

I have to completely agree with you on this. Harrenhall, the Isle of Faces, The God's Eye, that region is a nexus. Remember, the same day that Harrenhall was completed, Aegon the Conquerer landed in Westeros.
Roberts Rebellion has (some of) its roots in the Tourney of Harrenhall, but we also need to remember that Howland Reed (still one of the more puzzling characters in the entire series, we have heard quite a lot about him, but never met de man), spent quite some time on the Isle of Faces, when returning, he was bullied by squires.
TKOTLT was created from that, (most likely) causing Rhaegar to crown Lyanna as QOLAB. There is way too much going on there.

[JoeMama]

7 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

But isn't the salient feature of Oldtown its large tower - that's tower, singular. Mel sees towers, plural, and she doesn't mention one being much bigger than the others.

Pyke works: the black and bloody tide could be Euron himself sweeping away the Ironborn. But now we're back to prophecy as metaphor.

I suspect Melisandre's vision of towers, plural, is half symbolic and half literal. Her vision may represent 1) the literal Hightower in Oldtown and 2) the symbolic tower which is the family sigil of House Hightower.  GRRM often gives us examples where people are being symbolically represented through their house sigils. I also believe Leyton Hightower is currently residing in the Hightower working on spells (one of the Samwell chapters in AFFC). If Leyton Hightower is in the actual Hightower when it's attacked by the Ironborn, that would provide the fall of two "towers" in one fell swoop. It's a lot of speculation but I think it's a possibility.