James Steller Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Imagine you're the head of a noble house in Dorne (assume it’s been around for as long as the others). Your spouse was taken by a fever four years ago, leaving you with one legitimate child, two illegitimate children by your first paramour (a cousin of House Yronwood who passed away seven years ago), your second paramour, and a cousin who serves as a knight in your entourage. You are faced with a dilemma regarding your children: your illegitimate son is older than your legitimate daughter by only three days. You have never named an heir, and so a rivalry has emerged, which has grown to include some of the greatest houses in Dorne. Your daughter has been hailed as a great beauty with a kind heart. She is good friends with the daughters of Lord Dayne, Lord Toland, and Lord Fowler, frequently traveling to their respective homes. She has even befriended the daughters of Princess Ola Martell. Many say that she is a more than worthy to carry on your family name. However, there are others who urge you to legitimize your son and have him inherit. Your son favours his Yronwood side, and has spent much time with them and their old friends, the Qorgyles and Blackmonts. No great speaker, your son nevertheless spends a lot of time amongst the smallfolk, so that he is well known to them. He is also one of the most skilled swordsmen in Dorne. Neither your son nor your daughter have openly spoken of this situation, but you know that they are both very invested in your decision. Lord Yronwood has dropped hints that he considers your son the true heir to your family name, while Lord Fowler frequently compliments your daughter and emphasizes her legitimacy. In the meantime, your youngest child, a daughter, has just turned fifteen, and is considered a greater beauty than your eldest daughter. Lady Qorgyle has suggested that she marry Lady Qorgyle’s heir, after you legitimize both her and her brother. The hint cannot be more obvious. Because of her parentage, the Fowlers and Tolands have made no offers (the Fowlers hate the Yronwoods, and your spouse was related to Lord Toland, and he would not take kindly to your daughter not being the heir). Lord Dayne of Starfall also refuses to acknowledge your bastard daughter, but the Knight of High Hermitage, a young man who despises his more famous relatives, has paid you a visit to ask for her hand in marriage, regardless of legitimization. He is a noted knight, skilled at arms and quick-witted, though perhaps too prideful for his place in Dorne. And if that’s not enough, Lady Martell’s younger brother, a mature, soft-spoken man who nevertheless serves as master-at-arms in Sunspear, has offered to wed your eldest daughter, regardless of who you choose to be your heir, as he is utterly smitten by her. He is a good man, though he is two years older than you, which makes you hesitate. As you ponder your situation, you decide to confide in your cousin. You go to his chambers and, much to your shock, discover your current paramour in the arms of your second cousin. What do you do and how do you run this household? Note to the administrators: I assure you this is not a game, this is strictly a hypothetical scenario that is entirely subjective and up to each person who answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I send all of my children off to die on the other side of the world while I sit in my water garden doing nothing but complain about my joints for fifteen years. I'm kidding I love you Doran <3 This has shades of Rhaenyra vs. Aegon, and much like with them, I support the daughter. Yeah he's older by three days, but he's also a bastard. And even though Sands can get away with a lot, I wouldn't make him my heir. Even by legitimizing him some people may still turn their noses at him, I'd rather not chance it. She stays my heir, but in turn she has to get with the Martell sugar daddy. Sorry, it boils down to which side you pick: Yronwood or Martell, and I'd rather go with the lords paramount to strengthen her claim. My youngest can marry the Hermitage knight. Whatever, be happy. I would try to make my bastard son happy, though, and give him all I can within the realm of what's sensible. I'd make him castellan of my household and try to bring him closer to his sister -- that's what's key to avoiding civil war. As for my traitorous cousin and paramour.......... I'd probably just join them in bed. You made me a lord of Dorne, so I'm just playing my role man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Never stop doing these James. Also maybe give the kids names so its easier to reply. Difficult decisions especially in Dorne. I know bastards are less hated in Dorne but unless I had really good reasons I won't replace my heir. My legitimate daughter will remain my heir. She is friendly with the Princess of Dorne meaning her children will likely have good options. Also I prefer Dayne and Fowler to Yronwood. She will marry the younger brother to the Princess of Dorne, yes he is older than her, but if she wants to be the heir she must marry for duty and the good of the house. He won't last forever and when she is the Lady of the House she can remarry. I will still hopefully find a good match for my illegitimate son from among the Yronwood's, Oorgyles or Blackmonts. At the least good career. Mayhaps Master at Arms at Sunspear after the brother of the Princess of Dorne marries my heir and moves to my castle. Keeping him at Sunspear and her home suit my interests nicely. My youngest daughter will marry the Dayne of High Hermitage unless a better offer can be found which probably won't happen. Also I wouldn't be opposed to having the Princess of Dorne legitimize my bastards if it would get them better matches which it probably would. However my trueborn daughter remains the heir even if I did. Then I would try and get them both good matches with major houses: Dayne, Fowler, Yronwood etc. I'd probably join my cousin and paramour. Unless they were plotting against me, then I would have to deal with them a bit more harshly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said: Never stop doing these James. Also maybe give the kids names so its easier to reply. Thank you for your support! It's much appreciated And as for the names, allow me to edit that Your eldest daughter - Jana Your eldest son - Torak Your second daughter - Lucia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 minute ago, James Steller said: Thank you for your support! It's much appreciated And as for the names, allow me to edit that Your eldest daughter - Jana Your eldest son - Torak Your second daughter - Lucia Excellent, also is it ok to legitimize the bastards but keep your trueborn as heir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said: Excellent, also is it ok to legitimize the bastards but keep your trueborn as heir? Aegon IV would certainly say yes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 22 minutes ago, Lord Wraith said: Excellent, also is it ok to legitimize the bastards but keep your trueborn as heir? Do you want a shit fit civil war? Because this is how you get shit fit civil wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canon Claude Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I need to look at all my children's potential prospects. Jana can marry the Martell brother regardless of her being heir. Torak seemingly won't have anything as a bastard. He's also a man of the people, and I need someone who will look after the smallfolk first. Plus young Lucia has the potential to be the mother of the next Lord Qorgyle. And also, I figure I didn't really love my wife if I had a paramour at the same time (how I didn't get to marry an Yronwood over a Toland is beyond me). So I reckon that I favour the children of the woman I chose over the woman whose marriage to me was probably arranged by my parents without my opinion in the matter. I legitimize Torak and Lucia, naming Torak as my heir. In the meantime, Jana goes to Sunspear, where she'll have a great time in the very thick of the people she likes most. Her children have the potential to become Prince or Princess of Dorne if the main line dies out, which I'm sure she'd be happy about. As for my cousin? I'm afraid that I, in a fit of hot-blooded Dornish jealousy, order my cousin seized and sent to the Wall for his treachery. I have my paramour sent away with money so she isn't destitute, but I don't speak to her again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 24 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said: Do you want a shit fit civil war? Because this is how you get shit fit civil wars. Mayhaps. They would be legitimized and married into other houses. Probably best to keep them bastards and married off or at least away from my lands and castles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I legitimize Torak and Lucia, but behind Jana in succession. Having only one heir makes things a bit nervous, and people start plotting. I talk to Jana, and ask her about the marriage to Martell, and if she will consent to it, approve of it. This would let her spend some time at Sunspear, and give her powerful allies in the Martells should my son contest the succession. An older husband would allow her to gain a few heirs of her own, yet probably outlive him. Given Torak's skill with the blade, I write King's Landing and see if I can get him a place at court, and try and angle for him to enter the Kingsgard. This will improve my houses renown, remove him from the succession, and earn my house a place in the White book. I also imagine this would go down well with the singers, and earn him decent respect from the smallfolk. Lucia can marry Lady Qorgyle's heir. As for my cousin, I probably just kill him there and then. Probably my paramour too. I just wouldn't be able to trust them after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protagoras Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 First of all, I am very baffled on how many dornish lords that fail to understand succession rules. Bastards don´t inherit and even if they were legitimized, in Dorne the oldest child inherits. I am also shocked that my house is a haven of conspiracy and that other dornish houses openly meddles in my affairs. Not only that, but I cannot legitimize my children even if I wanted to. That power belongs with the king. So I don´t need not to name one heir since it only exists one candidate! But clearly, all this force my hand. After the frustration of having to stand all idiots around me, I come to the conclusion that a demonstration of power is necessary. My daughter Jana is my heir and I make that perfectly clear both in words and in action (she is a part of my council, will deal with people in my name when I am absent etc). And I also forces all soldiers and commanders of my forces to swear a personal oath of personal allegiance to my daughter and a oath of loyalty to the rules and traditions of my house, all necessary due to the troubling times and intrigue by dornish competitors. If they refuse then they are fired. After all, you cannot be in the service of the house if you do not respect and follow the tradition of the house, regardless on how said traditions are seen by you and by Westeros as a whole. And this house do not accept any Jaime/Jon Snow-characters who want to "interpret" the rules. The rules stand, exactly as written. And I will tell Lord Yronwood to mind his own business. Because of all this, I will make no move to legitimize my bastards. My daughter has done nothing to deserve such a move and Lord Toland did the original marriage with his daughter to me with the intention that said offspring would inherit and if that cannot be held as true then people will shun to marry our house in the future. I do need more heirs, but due to all this it is more risky with more heirs. And since I have cousins I should be fine on the succession fron if an accident happen. My son Torak should be given a piece of land of his own as well as a place in the house. Steward maybe. He will not however be given any authority over the armed forces of the house. Alternately, maybe I can talk with the Martells to take him on as a bodyguard considering his reputation. And yes, petitioning the kingsguard (if Torak wants to, that is) as said above is an excellent idea. The general gist should be that I want him happy, but not give him the means to create a civil war. His happyness is not more important than the house itself. As for the Martell marriage, I let my daughter decide that one and point out the pros and the cons. But if she agree, I will obviously demand a matrilineal marriage and that he forsakes his Martell name for mine, but since this is Dorne I see that as expected. And again, the oaths from the soldiers are to my daughter - not him. And when we are on the subject - I introduce my bastard daughter to the Knight of High Hermitage. Lucia is just 15 and I am not willing to make any decisions about her future yet, but if they like each other, then why not. But I am not in a hurry and have time to wait for better offers. As for my paramour and cousin, I just sighs at this point. Surrounded by traitors...I get myself a new paramour and make a note on that my cousin is not going to advance anymore than the entourage knight that he already is, since he isn´t trustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Wow. The Tolands, Daynes, and Fowlers all sound like utter snobs if they'll turn their noses up at a fifteen year old girl just because of her parentage. I thought the Dornish were better than that. Well, I won't disinherit Jana just because she's a girl or because she's three days younger than my other child, but I also won't anything to do with those families if I can help it. I'll have the Martell marry Jana as well, before the Daynes or Tolands get any ideas about linking with my house. I'll keep them at arm's length as long as I'm alive. I give Torak a choice. Appealing to the Princess to have him or his sister legitimized might not pan out, especially because of their Yronwood connections, but they will always be my children. If Torak wants to stay, I will appoint him master-at-arms with a portion of land that I'll have ratified by the Martells so that Jana can't just oust him after I'm dead. If he'd rather make his own fortune in the world, I'll provide him with money, supplies, food, even ship fare if necessary. Lucia can live in High Hermitage. I want her provided for, and a knightly house with such a famous name is better than what many other illegitimate children can hope for, even in Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: I thought the Dornish were better than that. No doubt that's what the non-book readers thought when they saw the fifth season Dorne subplot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renly's Banana Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, James Steller said: No doubt that's what the non-book readers thought when they saw the fifth season Dorne subplot. Easy now. You want a good plot, but you need the bad writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said: Easy now. You want a good plot, but you need the bad writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 13 hours ago, Protagoras said: First of all, I am very baffled on how many dornish lords that fail to understand succession rules. Bastards don´t inherit and even if they were legitimized, in Dorne the oldest child inherits. I am also shocked that my house is a haven of conspiracy and that other dornish houses openly meddles in my affairs. I was wondering this as well. Why I only wanted to legitimized the bastards to get better marriages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.