CERSEI'S Trial: The Mountain VS !!!!!!!! - realistic way forward?

[Bonkers]

So I broke my ankle (9 screws, and 1 plate later) and spent a week in hospital before surgery drugged up and in a hospital bed, when I had a thought.  Strap yourself in, but it made sense at the time when I was doped out of my brain lol.

In WoW we have an sample chapter from Arianne at Storm's End, where they discuss Mace Tyrell's army coming down on them, and how the Queen will be responding to them etc. This implies that both Marg and Cersei's trial have passed, as in aDwD epilogue Mace would not leave KL until Marg's trial was over.   With the reference to the Queen, we must assume it is Cersei back in charge (otherwise it would be the King or another regent they would mention).  This leads me to assume that the trial for Cersei went well for her. 

I believe that her trail will be an absolute Non-event as far as Ser Robert's challenger is concerned.  There will be no Clegane-bowl, no Viper vs Mountain fight, just a slaughter.  Let's see,

1. Sandor is on the QI and far away from KL, there is no reasonable explanation as to why the HS will send away outside of KL to find a champion of the Faith when he has an army of Faith Militant there at his disposal.  Besides, Sandor is on an island of passive worship, and his character arc has found him hidden away with non-warring folk whom despise violence. Why would the HS even ask them for help in the first place?  (I absolutely believe that Ned's Hand Tourney set us up for an amazing Clegane-bowl at a later point, but this trial will serve another character's story arc)

2. There is no other character that we are aware of - that would fight for the Faith - that would give the Mountain any form of competitive fight.  Cersei's Trail will be anti-climactic as far as a 'show' I believe.

Who will fight?  It seems obvious to me, that the only character we have that would fit is Lancel Lannister. 

His story has served it's purpose.  His fall into the depths of religious zealot, rational ignorance makes him the perfect fit.  He gets to come full circle in his arc.  His talk with Jamie in the Darry Sept shows us he has nothing to live for anymore.  He doesn't care about anything, and has become so pious and blinded by the Faith that he forsakes everything just to repent for his past, trusting that the Gods have ultimate power (remember Varys' riddle?  Power lies only where people are manipulated into thinking it resides).  He confessed his crimes with Cersei to the previous High Septon, and so he will most likely tell the High Sparrow as a reason as to why he should be the one to face the Mountain.

Imagine this, the HS needs someone to represent the Faith, and he has Lancel put his hand up. 

Spoiler

He no longer has anyone to tell him not to do it as he is alone - all family dead or gone or against him

 Lancel believes the Faith will protect him because he KNOWS Cersei is guilty.  Lancel fully trusts that the Gods will save him and kill The Mountain because he knows for a fact she is guilty.  His blind irrational belief that the God's are in absolute control makes him not fear his demise in the trial.  The HS believes he is the perfect representative of the faith as he knows her crimes are real, and he himself has repented for his part in them.  Then the Mountain comes out, smashes the absolute be-gee-ses out of him in a heartbeat, and the Faith are shook up to the core.  Their belief in the Gods is shaken, as Lancel was pious, truthful, godly etc, and he was killed.  Everyone who has absolute faith in the Seven are rattled.  The Gods no longer seem to hold so much 'power' as they did. 

I think this would provide an excellent end to Lancel's arc, and also sew disharmony amoungst the Faith, ready for a shake up.  Cersei gets her power back, and no one can stand against her.  Except those who hold power of a different seed.

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

As we saw in a Hedge Knight, it seems that if an accuser is a knight, and trial by combat is declared, the accuser must fight.  Aerion clearly did not want to fight Dunk, that's why he demanded trial by 7, but he still had to be 1 of the 7.  Given that, it seems the Kettleblack that accused Cersei, must fight.

[Bonkers]

8 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

As we saw in a Hedge Knight, it seems that if an accuser is a knight, and trial by combat is declared, the accuser must fight.  Aerion clearly did not want to fight Dunk, that's why he demanded trial by 7, but he still had to be 1 of the 7.  Given that, it seems the Kettleblack that accused Cersei, must fight.

Ah, I see.....but Lancel accused her first to the previous High Septon.... (plus wasn't he knighted after the Backwater battle?) ... interesting.  That may in fact add to my thought! 

[aryagonnakill#2]

2 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Ah, I see.....but Lancel accused her first to the previous High Septon....

But that's why Cersei had him killed, which is what Kettleblack is accusing her of.  I'm not saying Lancel won't fight also, he could add his testimony to Kettleblacks, I believe there will be multiple fights to reflect the multiple charges.  The faith is accusing her of incest on rumor alone, no specific accuser so that should simply be the faith.  That could be Lancel as a member of the faith militant or it could be the leader of that group the guy who escorted Cersei from Baelors temple.  I agree there will be no serious contest, no Clegane bowl, and no serious reveal of who Robert Strong is.  My only difference of opinion is that there will be extra fights.

[Lord Wraith]

1 hour ago, Bonkers said:

So I broke my ankle (9 screws, and 1 plate later) and spent a week in hospital before surgery drugged up and in a hospital bed, when I had a thought.  Strap yourself in, but it made sense at the time when I was doped out of my brain lol.

In WoW we have an sample chapter from Arianne at Storm's End, where they discuss Mace Tyrell's army coming down on them, and how the Queen will be responding to them etc. This implies that both Marg and Cersei's trial have passed, as in aDwD epilogue Mace would not leave KL until Marg's trial was over.   With the reference to the Queen, we must assume it is Cersei back in charge (otherwise it would be the King or another regent they would mention).  This leads me to assume that the trial for Cersei went well for her. 

I believe that her trail will be an absolute Non-event as far as Ser Robert's challenger is concerned.  There will be no Clegane-bowl, no Viper vs Mountain fight, just a slaughter.  Let's see,

1. Sandor is on the QI and far away from KL, there is no reasonable explanation as to why the HS will send away outside of KL to find a champion of the Faith when he has an army of Faith Militant there at his disposal.  Besides, Sandor is on an island of passive worship, and his character arc has found him hidden away with non-warring folk whom despise violence. Why would the HS even ask them for help in the first place?  (I absolutely believe that Ned's Hand Tourney set us up for an amazing Clegane-bowl at a later point, but this trial will serve another character's story arc)

2. There is no other character that we are aware of - that would fight for the Faith - that would give the Mountain any form of competitive fight.  Cersei's Trail will be anti-climactic as far as a 'show' I believe.

Who will fight?  It seems obvious to me, that the only character we have that would fit is Lancel Lannister. 

His story has served it's purpose.  His fall into the depths of religious zealot, rational ignorance makes him the perfect fit.  He gets to come full circle in his arc.  His talk with Jamie in the Darry Sept shows us he has nothing to live for anymore.  He doesn't care about anything, and has become so pious and blinded by the Faith that he forsakes everything just to repent for his past, trusting that the Gods have ultimate power (remember Varys' riddle?  Power lies only where people are manipulated into thinking it resides).  He confessed his crimes with Cersei to the previous High Septon, and so he will most likely tell the High Sparrow as a reason as to why he should be the one to face the Mountain.

Imagine this, the HS needs someone to represent the Faith, and he has Lancel put his hand up. 

  Reveal hidden contents

He no longer has anyone to tell him not to do it as he is alone - all family dead or gone or against him

 Lancel believes the Faith will protect him because he KNOWS Cersei is guilty.  Lancel fully trusts that the Gods will save him and kill The Mountain because he knows for a fact she is guilty.  His blind irrational belief that the God's are in absolute control makes him not fear his demise in the trial.  The HS believes he is the perfect representative of the faith as he knows her crimes are real, and he himself has repented for his part in them.  Then the Mountain comes out, smashes the absolute be-gee-ses out of him in a heartbeat, and the Faith are shook up to the core.  Their belief in the Gods is shaken, as Lancel was pious, truthful, godly etc, and he was killed.  Everyone who has absolute faith in the Seven are rattled.  The Gods no longer seem to hold so much 'power' as they did. 

I think this would provide an excellent end to Lancel's arc, and also sew disharmony amoungst the Faith, ready for a shake up.  Cersei gets her power back, and no one can stand against her.  Except those who hold power of a different seed.

 

Oh I agree that Lancel will be the Faith representative for Cersei's trail. He will of could lose of couse but I still think Cleganebowl has a chance of happening later certainly not a Cersei's trial. 

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

I also think it will be a trial of 7, but I agree that getting killed by the Mountain would make a great end to Lancel's arc and so I won't be surprised if he is one of the 7 fighting against Cersei. 

[AlesterFlorentReborn]

1 hour ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I also think it will be a trial of 7, but I agree that getting killed by the Mountain would make a great end to Lancel's arc and so I won't be surprised if he is one of the 7 fighting against Cersei. 

Thought so too, there seemed to be foreshadowing, it is written that the HS does everything in sevens. But I dunno, I think that cersei's trial will be early in twow and a trial by seven will need a proper setup - let alone the fact that cersei wont be able to find six more fighters

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

30 minutes ago, AlesterFlorentReborn said:

Thought so too, there seemed to be foreshadowing, it is written that the HS does everything in sevens. But I dunno, I think that cersei's trial will be early in twow and a trial by seven will need a proper setup - let alone the fact that cersei wont be able to find six more fighters

Well one theory is that since a member of the kingsguard must be used to defend a queen in a trial, she will only be allowed members of the kingsguard, making it Meryn Trant, the UnGregor, and (poisoned) Boros Blount vs 7 unlucky dudes

[myhalfgroat]

yeah, trial by 7 seems likely. though I disagree about the faith getting all shook up and the gods losing power in their eyes. we can look at plenty of real world examples to see that religious fervor is pretty adaptable at justifying things.

[AlesterFlorentReborn]

28 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Well one theory is that since a member of the kingsguard must be used to defend a queen in a trial, she will only be allowed members of the kingsguard, making it Meryn Trant, the UnGregor, and (poisoned) Boros Blount vs 7 unlucky dudes

According to the hedge knight I believe that if cersei will be defended only by 3 men she will be disqualified. Though in the hedge knight not all of the kg fought for Aerion so I dont know, but im still of the opinion that Cersei cant find 7 men. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

3 hours ago, AlesterFlorentReborn said:

According to the hedge knight I believe that if cersei will be defended only by 3 men she will be disqualified. Though in the hedge knight not all of the kg fought for Aerion so I dont know, but im still of the opinion that Cersei cant find 7 men. 

That's definitely true in the Hedge Knight, but how could the High Septon say you need 7 men and can only use the Kingsguard when there are not 7 Kingsguard.  He would have to delay the trial, and we can be reasonably sure that didn't happen.

[devilish]

Unless Loras Tyrell appears

[zandru]

12 hours ago, Bonkers said:

So I broke my ankle (9 screws, and 1 plate later) and spent a week in hospital before surgery

Clearly, you aren't writing from the United States ... this would have been an out-patient procedure here, or overnight stay at best, with a minimum of $1,500 deductible, regardless of how severe the break was... I hope you're doing better now!

You make an excellent case for Lancel going up against FrankenGregor. I don't see a "trial by 7"; if Cersei knew she didn't need / couldn't find 7 men to fight for her, why would she (as the accused) demand this? Unless she wanted to use the entire Kingsguard and "clean house", culling them all excepting "Robert Strong." But that would have taken out Brother Jaime, too. Given also that the only time we saw a trial of 7 was back in the Duncan the Tall days, it's probably become old fashioned and out of style.

Yes, death by Gregor would be a fitting end to Lancel's sad arc. One hopes it would be quick.

[zandru]

2 hours ago, devilish said:

Unless Loras Tyrell appears

That would be cool! I wonder if Loras really was as badly burned and injured as had been reported, or if that was just a cover story? If so, Loras could be helping Family Tully to rally troops and ships against the rule of Queen Mother Cersei, while making her think he was permanently out of action.

[devilish]

1 hour ago, zandru said:

That would be cool! I wonder if Loras really was as badly burned and injured as had been reported, or if that was just a cover story? If so, Loras could be helping Family Tully to rally troops and ships against the rule of Queen Mother Cersei, while making her think he was permanently out of action.

A badly burnt but still fully functional Loras would be bad ass. His skills with the sword are at par with Jamie's + his cockiness would vanish replaced by hate towards a queen who sent him to his death based on lies. Its fitting for a round 2 between the two especially since he'll be badly burnt just like the Hound who saved his life first time round

[Sator]

I actually don't believe the Trail by Combat will ever happen -- or, at least, it won't be concluded.

I suspect Aegon's invasion conveniently distracts from the trial, enabling Cersei to become freed.

[PCK]

The aftermath is probably just as important as the trial itself.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Sorry about your ankle, but I think the meds actually helped you see this clearly. Sometimes we all get so caught up looking so closely at things that we miss ye olde forest for staring at ye olde trees.

A little bonus here...Lancel might think Cersei was behind his father's death and see himself as duty-bound to avenge daddy.

The crisis of Faith would be an amazing component with R'hllorists running around and the Others coming. Fire and Ice, you know.

I disagree with those who think it will be a trial of seven. I do think we'll see one, but I think it will be either for Sansa (on the phony regicide charge) or Tyrion if his first is ruled a mistrial because both champions died, and because King Aegon has a soft spot for the Imp. Also Dany could order a new trial for Tyrion. But really I think Sansa is the best bet for a ToS.

[snow is the man]

I think lancel would be the best choice since he would obviously blame cersei as most will. Him dying by the mountain will likely be us seeing how jaime not only leaves his sister like he is already but turning against her. As far as loras that would be awesome. If he managed to come back as good as he was but hideously disfigured would be great and I hope they do that either way.

[snow is the man]

6 hours ago, Sator said:

I actually don't believe the Trail by Combat will ever happen -- or, at least, it won't be concluded.

I suspect Aegon's invasion conveniently distracts from the trial, enabling Cersei to become freed.

Her trial is only three days (I think) from the time we see kevan die. I don't think aegon's invasion will make that much of a difference in a week.