The Fresh PtwP

Viserys meets the dragon

37 posts in this topic

What if Viserys survived long enough to witness the dragon hatching? Would he chill out having his own dragon, or would the prospective power make him much worse?

Would Dany even give him a dragon?

Would he auto-bond with it/them like Dany does? 

Discuss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Viserys and chilling out 'does not compute'.... :wacko::wacko::wacko:

He would go completely batshit crazy by first blackmailing Danaerys into giving him a dragon (or worse, claim all 3 dragons are his).

Dany might be persuaded into giving 1 dragon to him if she hadn't become independent of him during their time with the Dothraki horde. In the beginning of the book we can see that Dany is very submissive and extremely obedient to Viserys, even afraid. During their trip to Vaes Dothrak, she sees him for what he really is. An insecure, abusive, arrogant and mentally unstable man. So I think that, would Viserys still be alive at the time of the dragons hatching, she would not allow him to have one.

It would be completely into character if Viserys would then try to steal 1 (or all 3) dragon(s) from Dany, makes you wonder how the dragons would respond. I think he would then suffer the same fate as Quentin, a human torch.

A dragon bonding with him, I would hope not. The bonding between Dany and the dragons isn't instant at birth. She had already bonded with them, she slept with them after heating the eggs on the stove, took them in a hot bath with her. There already was a connection between Dany and the Dragons when they were still eggs. The birth and the fire only strengthened that bond. Therefore, I don't think that Viserys would be able to auto-bond with a dragon.
If given time (and trust from Dany) he might be able to bond with a dragon, but he would need to seriously adjust his temper and behaviour around the dragons. I doubt the animals would accept his regular behaviour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

He would demand ownership of all three dragons. He would have turned back west with the dragons, Dany and Jorah and probably gone back to Illyrio's, since I can't see him heading east to Qarth; he'd think it a waste of time. But this is ignoring a lot of stuff, like Daenerys standing up to him and Jorah/the Dothraki not following his orders. If he went back to Pentos then he'd meet Selmy there, and possibly Aegon and JonCon. I dunno, it's a fun what-if. 

The dragons would also most likely not bond with him, since their attachment to their "mother" seems to stem from them being in the pyre together.

Edited by Renly's Banana

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said:

He would demand ownership of all three dragons. He would have turned back west with the dragons, Dany and Jorah and probably gone back to Illyrio's, since I can't see him heading east to Qarth; he'd think it a waste of time. But this is ignoring a lot of stuff, like Daenerys standing up to him and Jorah/the Dothraki not following his orders. If he went back to Pentos then he'd meet Selmy there, and possibly Aegon and JonCon. I dunno, it's a fun what-if. 

The dragons would also most likely not bond with him, since their attachment to their "mother" seems to stem from them being in the pyre together.

Pretty much so. One wonders if not Viserys could be tricked to sell or give away the dragons in return for promises for aid for his return to Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

The dragons would also most likely not bond with him, since their attachment to their "mother" seems to stem from them being in the pyre together.

A person can only bind with ONE dragon, Dany hatched three, so there are two untamed dragons. But I don't think Viserys would be a dragonrider, not all Targaryens had the dragonriding ability, Aenys I second son Viserys (coincidence?!?! hehe) could not bond with a dragon

Edited by The Hammer of Justice
OK, I am not sure if it was Viserys who could not ride a dragon, but I know there was some Targaryens who did not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to the fact that Daenerys has awaken the future Drogon, and that the baby Rhaego in the belly bound himself to the green-and-bronze egg : 

 
Quote

 

"I'm not hungry," Dany said sadly. She was suddenly very tired. "Share the food among yourselves, and send some to Ser Jorah, if you would." After a moment she added, "Please, bring me one of the dragon's eggs."
Irri fetched the egg with the deep green shell, bronze flecks shining amid its scales as she turned it in her small hands. Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside.
She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her … as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. "You are the dragon," Dany whispered to him, "the true dragon. I know it. I know it." And she smiled, and went to sleep dreaming of home.(Daenerys IV, AGOT)

 

 

 

and according to the fact that Viserys tried to steal an egg, I wouldn't be surprised that he awaked the third egg, the white and golden, and bound himself with him. The fact that he was half mad has nothing to do with the un-ability to bind and to ride one dragon. ^^

And perhaps, there is some part of Viserys's soul in the white dragon. 

 

 
Quote

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

What if Viserys survived long enough to witness the dragon hatching? Would he chill out having his own dragon, or would the prospective power make him much worse?

Would Dany even give him a dragon?

Would he auto-bond with it/them like Dany does? 

Discuss.

Yes. Either or both are possible. He could be more chill in general but worse when he's angry. 

Would Dany give him a dragon? Yes, but probably the sweet one, and Viserys would think he was the weak or wimpy one and complain about it. He'd probably try to get his dragon to fight Dany's dragon, with the result that Viserys' dragon would end up dead. Then he'd probably try to steal Dany's dragon and get roasted for his trouble.

Would he auto-bond? Depends on how close he was when they hatched or how quickly he could interact with them after the hatching. Imprinting is best done as quickly as possible, but I'm not sure how long the window of possibility is on baby dragons. For horses you've got 24-48 hours, but it's still best to get the bonding done as early as you can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those saying he wouldn't be able to bond with a dragon is that just wishful thinking? He has as much dragon blood as Dany and a lot more than say Brown Ben Plumm (who the dragons "liked") if he were alive at the time of the dragon hatching IMO he would be a heavy favorite to bond with a dragon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

For those saying he wouldn't be able to bond with a dragon is that just wishful thinking? He has as much dragon blood as Dany and a lot more than say Brown Ben Plumm (who the dragons "liked") if he were alive at the time of the dragon hatching IMO he would be a heavy favorite to bond with a dragon. 

There seems to be a lot of confusion about bonding vs imprinting vs dragonriding. 

 

7 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

According to the fact that Daenerys has awaken the future Drogon, and that the baby Rhaego in the belly bound himself to the green-and-bronze egg : 

<snip

and according to the fact that Viserys tried to steal an egg, I wouldn't be surprised that he awaked the third egg, the white and golden, and bound himself with him. The fact that he was half mad has nothing to do with the un-ability to bind and to ride one dragon. ^^

And perhaps, there is some part of Viserys's soul in the white dragon. 

<snip

I like this idea. And if the dragon eggs were "awakened" by them, then their essence could have gone into the dragons at their deaths potentially. Otherwise we would have to assume that for any essence transfer Drogon absorbed part of Drogo, Rhaegal absorbed part of MMD, and Viserion absorbed part of the horse Dany added to the pyre.

Dany names Viserion for Viserys in hopes that he would be all that her brother could not be. If Viserys had lived, Viserion is likely the dragon he would have gotten...though he'd have wanted Drogon because he was the biggest and had the Targ colors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

A person can only bind with ONE dragon, Dany hatched three, so there are two untamed dragons. But I don't think Viserys would be a dragonrider, not all Targaryens had the dragonriding ability, Aenys I second son Viserys (coincidence?!?! hehe) could not bond with a dragon

Is there anywhere in-text that confirms this? Has that been proven by anyone? Not saying you're wrong I'm just genuinely curious to know about this. Cause we know from history that most dragons preferred one rider (even though a few dragons had more than one rider in their lives and vice versa), but dragon riding is different than just bonding with the dragon and having its loyalty/respect. Didn't some Targaryen babies get more than one egg in the cradle? 

9 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

For those saying he wouldn't be able to bond with a dragon is that just wishful thinking? He has as much dragon blood as Dany and a lot more than say Brown Ben Plumm (who the dragons "liked") if he were alive at the time of the dragon hatching IMO he would be a heavy favorite to bond with a dragon. 

Having Targaryen blood is not a guarantee for bonding with a dragon. There were plenty of them that never hatched any eggs. I suppose it's always possible one of them would get attached to him purely from a genetic perspective.. but it certainly wouldn't be out of love or temperament. If they're anything like most animals, they'd pick up on him abusing the woman who hatched them, for starters.
Viserys was just a failure of a man and way too unstable to get any person, much less a dragon, to like him, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Renly's Banana

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

Is there anywhere in-text that confirms this? Has that been proven by anyone? Not saying you're wrong I'm just genuinely curious to know about this. Cause we know from history that most dragons preferred one rider (even though a few dragons had more than one rider in their lives and vice versa), but dragon riding is different than just bonding with the dragon and having its loyalty/respect. Didn't some Targaryen babies get more than one egg in the cradle? 

Having Targaryen blood is not a guarantee for bonding with a dragon. There were plenty of them that never hatched any eggs. I suppose it's always possible one of them would get attached to him purely from a genetic perspective.. but it certainly wouldn't be out of love or temperament. If they're anything like most animals, they'd pick up on him abusing the woman who hatched them, for starters.
Viserys was just a failure of a man and way too unstable to get any person, much less a dragon, to like him, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, Maegor, Aegon II, Aemond, Daemon, even Visenya and Rhaenyra weren't the most stable or sane of people yet bonded with a dragon just fine.

I don't think dragons care about personality or temperament.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

A person can only bind with ONE dragon, Dany hatched three, so there are two untamed dragons. But I don't think Viserys would be a dragonrider, not all Targaryens had the dragonriding ability, Aenys I second son Viserys (coincidence?!?! hehe) could not bond with a dragon

Do we know he couldn't bond with a dragon? Is there any indication he tried and it didn't work. He was kept hostage by Maegor, so did he actually have the opportunity?

In regards to the OP, idk if Dany would have a choice in actually giving him a dragon. I don't think she would actually have a say. If Viserys bond with a dragon and can ride him then that's what he does. Dany couldn't actually stop him, could she? I think it would've set up the Dance of the Dragons that is allegedly being set up with Aegon.

1 hour ago, Renly's Banana said:

Is there anywhere in-text that confirms this? Has that been proven by anyone? Not saying you're wrong I'm just genuinely curious to know about this. Cause we know from history that most dragons preferred one rider (even though a few dragons had more than one rider in their lives and vice versa), but dragon riding is different than just bonding with the dragon and having its loyalty/respect. Didn't some Targaryen babies get more than one egg in the cradle? 

 

IIRC a dragon can only have one rider at a time, but can have multiple riders throughout it's life. Balerion had riders after Aegon I died. Most dragons had multiple riders because they lived longer than humans; just not more than one rider at a time. I do not think any rider had more than one dragon at a time.  Although I've always wondered what effect Dany hatching all three eggs has. We've had Targs hatch the dragons thus bond with them and we've had other Targs not hatch dragons, but bond with a "free" dragon. Think Aemond riding Vhagar. But we've never had an instance of one person hatching multiple dragons. What effect does that have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Maxxine said:

Do we know he couldn't bond with a dragon? Is there any indication he tried and it didn't work. He was kept hostage by Maegor, so did he actually have the opportunity?

In regards to the OP, idk if Dany would have a choice in actually giving him a dragon. I don't think she would actually have a say. If Viserys bond with a dragon and can ride him then that's what he does. Dany couldn't actually stop him, could she? I think it would've set up the Dance of the Dragons that is allegedly being set up with Aegon.

IIRC a dragon can only have one rider at a time, but can have multiple riders throughout it's life. Balerion had riders after Aegon I died. Most dragons had multiple riders because they lived longer than humans; just not more than one rider at a time. I do not think any rider had more than one dragon at a time.  Although I've always wondered what effect Dany hatching all three eggs has. We've had Targs hatch the dragons thus bond with them and we've had other Targs not hatch dragons, but bond with a "free" dragon. Think Aemond riding Vhagar. But we've never had an instance of one person hatching multiple dragons. What effect does that have?

Speculation, but inability to hurt their "mother"? I could see that playing a role later especially if say Aegon or Tyrion (ugh) or Euron get a dragon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

s there anywhere in-text that confirms this?

I read this somewhere, not sure if it was on TWOIAF or The Princess and the Queen

9 hours ago, Maxxine said:

Do we know he couldn't bond with a dragon?

No, I only speculated that because there is precedent for Targaryens without the dragonriding skills

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

Is there anywhere in-text that confirms this? Has that been proven by anyone? Not saying you're wrong I'm just genuinely curious to know about this. Cause we know from history that most dragons preferred one rider (even though a few dragons had more than one rider in their lives and vice versa), but dragon riding is different than just bonding with the dragon and having its loyalty/respect. Didn't some Targaryen babies get more than one egg in the cradle? 

Having Targaryen blood is not a guarantee for bonding with a dragon. There were plenty of them that never hatched any eggs. I suppose it's always possible one of them would get attached to him purely from a genetic perspective.. but it certainly wouldn't be out of love or temperament. 

No. One egg per child. There is no mention of anyone getting more eggs.

If he was one of the first people they met one of them could imprint on him. That's not necessarily the same as the bonding under discussion, but I'm not 100% sure that everyone in the thread is using the word the same way, or with the same meaning.

 

13 hours ago, Maxxine said:

<snip

IIRC a dragon can only have one rider at a time, but can have multiple riders throughout it's life. Balerion had riders after Aegon I died. Most dragons had multiple riders because they lived longer than humans; just not more than one rider at a time. I do not think any rider had more than one dragon at a time.  Although I've always wondered what effect Dany hatching all three eggs has. We've had Targs hatch the dragons thus bond with them and we've had other Targs not hatch dragons, but bond with a "free" dragon. Think Aemond riding Vhagar. But we've never had an instance of one person hatching multiple dragons. What effect does that have?

You're correct about that. IIRC the kid who jumped on Syrax to try and save the dragons being attacked in the pit was bonded to another dragon and rode him. I've never been sure whether Syrax bucked him because he wasn't her person or because she sensed his bond with the other dragon and wasn't going to be accused of poaching a human from one of her relatives (assuming all Targ dragons were related, cause they probably were).

That's the imprinting, but also since Dany has been the one interacting with them the most we can add some form of bonding as well. We really don't know what effect this is going to have. Dany could be the first person in history to be able to ride multiple dragons. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/11/2017 at 1:40 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said:

 

 

You're correct about that. IIRC the kid who jumped on Syrax to try and save the dragons being attacked in the pit was bonded to another dragon and rode him. I've never been sure whether Syrax bucked him because he wasn't her person or because she sensed his bond with the other dragon and wasn't going to be accused of poaching a human from one of her relatives (assuming all Targ dragons were related, cause they probably were).

That's the imprinting, but also since Dany has been the one interacting with them the most we can add some form of bonding as well. We really don't know what effect this is going to have. Dany could be the first person in history to be able to ride multiple dragons. 

Yes. I forgot about this. I believe it was Prince Joffrey who to Syrax (Rhaenyra's dragon?) to go save his own. I've always wondered how/why he was able to do that. We don't have another instance like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

Yes. I forgot about this. I believe it was Prince Joffrey who to Syrax (Rhaenyra's dragon?) to go save his own. I've always wondered how/why he was able to do that. We don't have another instance like it.

He wasn't able for very long though. You're right that Syrax was Rhaenyra's dragon which might have been why Joffrey was able to mount her at first. She probably sensed Rhaenyra's blood in Joffrey, but then when she sensed his bond with Tyraxes, or sensed that he wasn't Rhaenyra (hey, this rider is too light!) then she bucked him off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there may well be something to Dany imprinting all her dragons, but only bonding with Drogon.   I'm not sure who chose whom in that dynamic, but the bond is there. Still I think the relationship between Dany and the dragons goes deeper than imprint.   Didn't Rhaegal and Viserion allow themselves to be collared?  That act was submission by both dragons.   

 It's dangerous to proceed under the assumption that anyone who has interacted with an egg could leave an imprint on it.   Didn't Illyrio, Jiqui and Jorah all handle the eggs as well as Viserys?  In this context I'm thinking of Grey Ghost and Cannibal.  All those years on Dragonstone yet wild as the day they were hatched.   Riders were finally found leading me to believe there is some sort of connection, be it psychic, physical, sensational or spiritual between dragons and riders.  Yes, I've seen the PJ videos and I'm not convinced DNA can call across species to each other.  I suppose there could be an astrological or numeric thing at play here but I wonder if it isn't something far more base, like smell?  

Punk Ass Viserys Targaryen with a dragon.  I'm so glad that didn't actually happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be a dream come true   for Viserys. The filthy barbarian and his spawn dead , three live dragons ,and Dany now a widow  Viserys would invade Westeros ,Defeat the Usurper and his dogs ,then return the rule the Targaryens to Westeros . The reality Viserys would live long enough to see the dragons hatch ,Viserys not being a stable person or very patient person. The dragons seemed to have bonded with Dany I could see Viserys trying to kill Dany to possess them ,which would lead to his death . It was going to take time to be able to use the dragons as weapons I could see him trying to use them as weapons ,again leading to his death , but basically Viserys is a coward at heart end the end he would have them killed .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, Viserys were already pretty damaged at the start of the first book. He has lacked everything and been treated with disrespect and now he suddenly hold some power. I think he would demand all three dragons, but "generously" allow Daenerys to keep one while using the last one as a bargain tool in order to either sell it for money or getting a third rider. But he is not going to be more patient. I think he will unwisely set of for Westeros directly.

Would Daenerys let him? Well, no but I think she will give him one, partly out of pity and partly out support from the years he supported them both. But I doubt Viserys will accept an arrangement with Daenerys running the show. He will leave her group in Qarth, taking a ship back to Westeros and, assuming he survives, spend time (some years) training his dragon until he goes full berserk on Westeros. 

As for if he bonds, well Aemond was able to bind to Vhagar spontaniously. So Viserys might have a long shot on it. Still a better plan than the one he had so he will see himself as the true dragon with nothing to lose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now