Lame Lothar Frey

The Most Intelligent Pre-Teen?

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Posted (edited)

1.  Who in your opinion is the most intelligent pre-teen character in the story? 

2.  Please rank the list below in order of most intelligent down to the least.

3.  Pick the most interesting character to you from the list below.

  • Bran Stark
  • Willa Manderly
  • Big Walder Frey
  • Arya Stark
  • Missandei from Naath
  • Myrcella Baratheon
  • Rickon Stark
  • Edric Dayne
  • Shireen Baratheon
  • Robin Arryn

Take note that I left Sansa Stark out because she is 13 of age and up for most of the story.  And really, Sansa  does not belong on any list of intelligence anyway.  Pre-teen is an age before thirteen for the purpose of our survey. 

Edited by Lame Lothar Frey

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51 minutes ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

1.  Who in your opinion is the most intelligent pre-teen character in the story? 

2.  Please rank the list below in order of most intelligent down to the least.

3.  Pick the most interesting character to you from the list below.

  • Bran Stark
  • Willa Manderly
  • Big Walder Frey
  • Arya Stark
  • Missandei from Naath
  • Myrcella Baratheon
  • Rickon Stark
  • Edric Dayne
  • Shireen Baratheon
  • Robin Arryn

I won't make a ranking (intelligence is overrated imho), but indeed the books feature a good range of smart, brave and strong kids. Missing from your list:

- Podrick Payne

- Wex

- Satin

Although they might be older.

 

51 minutes ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

Take note that I left Sansa Stark out because she is 13 of age and up for most of the story.  And really, Sansa  does not belong on any list of intelligence anyway.  Pre-teen is an age before thirteen for the purpose of our survey. 

No, no, no. Sansa is also intelligent, but her conventional education and former passive attitude took a big hit to her, but it's mostly her parent's fault. I'm not a Sansa's fan, sometime I cannot even stand her chapters, but there has been a strong development in character and intelligence.

 

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1 hour ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

1.  Who in your opinion is the most intelligent pre-teen character in the story?  Missandei

2.  Please rank the list below in order of most intelligent down to the least.  See below

3.  Pick the most interesting character to you from the list below. Big Walder and Robin

  • Bran Stark
  • Willa Manderly
  • Big Walder Frey
  • Arya Stark
  • Missandei from Naath
  • Myrcella Baratheon
  • Rickon Stark
  • Edric Dayne
  • Shireen Baratheon
  • Robin Arryn

Take note that I left Sansa Stark out because she is 13 of age and up for most of the story.  And really, Sansa  does not belong on any list of intelligence anyway.  Pre-teen is an age before thirteen for the purpose of our survey. 

  1. Missandei
  2. Big Walder Frey
  3. Sweet Robin
  4. Shireen
  5. Bran
  6. Arya
  7. Willa Manderly

Edric Dayne, Rickon, and Myrcella are unknowns at this time. 

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Isn't Wylla Manderly older than Sansa?

My vote goes for Missandei, bc her language abilities seem to be superhuman, but

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

I won't make a ranking (intelligence is overrated imho), but indeed the books feature a good range of smart, brave and strong kids.

...this.

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3 hours ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

Jojen Reed

Are you sure Jojen is this young?  Meera is Jon's age.  That would put Jojen at what, 14-15?  

  1. Big Walder - he understands the game of succession, says the right things in front of Bran and Lewin.  
  2. Shireen - taught low class Davos how to read
  3. Missandei 
  4. Robyn - he's keen enough to know people want him dead and why but not enough to know Sansa is slowly poisoning him.
  5. Bran

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Are you sure Jojen is this young?  Meera is Jon's age.  That would put Jojen at what, 14-15?

Actually, I'm not sure, I thought he was around Arya's age, but now I'm not sure

Edited by The Hammer of Justice

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37 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Are you sure Jojen is this young?  Meera is Jon's age.  That would put Jojen at what, 14-15?  

  1. Big Walder - he understands the game of succession, says the right things in front of Bran and Lewin.  
  2. Shireen - taught low class Davos how to read
  3. Missandei 
  4. Robyn - he's keen enough to know people want him dead and why but not enough to know Sansa is slowly poisoning him.
  5. Bran

 

Just now, AlesterFlorentReborn said:

Jojen is Sansa's age.

I will revise my list accordingly.

  1. Big Walder
  2. Missandei
  3. Shireen
  4. Jojen
  5. Robyn Arryn

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11 hours ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

1.  Who in your opinion is the most intelligent pre-teen character in the story? 

2.  Please rank the list below in order of most intelligent down to the least.

3.  Pick the most interesting character to you from the list below.

  • Bran Stark
  • Willa Manderly
  • Big Walder Frey
  • Arya Stark
  • Missandei from Naath
  • Myrcella Baratheon
  • Rickon Stark
  • Edric Dayne
  • Shireen Baratheon
  • Robin Arryn

Take note that I left Sansa Stark out because she is 13 of age and up for most of the story.  And really, Sansa  does not belong on any list of intelligence anyway.  Pre-teen is an age before thirteen for the purpose of our survey. 

Wylla Manderly is 15, so is way too old.  Podrick is 12 and Tommen is 9, so they both belong on the list

6 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Are you sure Jojen is this young?  Meera is Jon's age.  That would put Jojen at what, 14-15?

Jojen is described as being 13.

 

My list of preteens from most to least smart

Missandei

Arya Stark

Bran Stark

Podrick Payne

Robert Arryn

Tommen Baratheon

The rest of them we haven't seen enough to really evaluate.

6 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Shireen - taught low class Davos how to read

That was show only.  In the book,he learns from the maester.

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Don't you mean Robert Arryn? I think Robin is his show name, though Sweetrobin is his nickname in the books.

Missandei, followed by Arya, though I like Arya far more, and Missandei would likely be dead if she went through Arby's life since the end of AGOT.

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12 hours ago, Lame Lothar Frey said:

1.  Who in your opinion is the most intelligent pre-teen character in the story? 

2.  Please rank the list below in order of most intelligent down to the least.

3.  Pick the most interesting character to you from the list below.

  • Bran Stark
  • Willa Manderly
  • Big Walder Frey
  • Arya Stark
  • Missandei from Naath
  • Myrcella Baratheon
  • Rickon Stark
  • Edric Dayne
  • Shireen Baratheon
  • Robin Arryn

Take note that I left Sansa Stark out because she is 13 of age and up for most of the story.  And really, Sansa  does not belong on any list of intelligence anyway.  Pre-teen is an age before thirteen for the purpose of our survey. 

Concerning intelligence: Missandei, big walder, Arya and bran

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missandei is very smart as ser barriston points out. Arya is very cunning and resourceful but not sure if that means "intelligence" but I will count it as intelligence. Those two are extremly smart in my opinion and top the list. Personally I find that if you look at specific characters (especially younger ones) the girls are smarter on average then the men are.

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First, thanks for the age limitations that preclude a pro-/anti-Sansa fight! As one of the worse offenders, I appreciate this.

I'd say

1. Missandei    2. Arya   3. Shireen   4. Bran

The differing ages make it hard to judge a character's smarts; under the age of 12, every year makes a big difference. I think little Rickon (just 3 as the books start, and never featured much) is at a disadvantage, as is Robert Arryn ("Sweet" Robin - give me a break!!), who has the disadvantages of being sickly and spoiled rotten, a selfish little monster at this stage of his life. Maybe he'll outgrow it. But he hasn't revealed anything intelligent, just the destructive whims of an overindulged toddler.

The other characters have such limited page time that it's hard to judge, and no POVs.

As far as my "most interesting" from this list, I'd say

1. Arya   2. Shireen   3 Bran   4. Missandei (she's a kind of shadow of Daenerys)  

I'd like to learn a lot more about Willa and Edric, and find out how Rickon has been doing.

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I think there is a difference between having access to a good education and actually being intelligent. For instance, nothing Shereen has done nothing that indicates that she's actually independently intelligent;she has just had an education a lot of people have had access to. Not saying she isn't, we just don't know. Arya and Bran are definitely the most intelligent to me. They are able to perceive things that others around their age and even adults are not able to. And, particularly in Arya's case, they are able to realize their mistakes and take steps to correct them. I don't want to make this post about Sansa, but I think she should be included in this discussion. She's 11 at the beginning of the books. And she spends a decent amount of time being a pre-teen to make her an acceptable character to discuss in this thread. I only really want to add her because she's the perfect example of good education vs. actual intelligence. Though she's had the same education as Bran and Arya she doesn't display the same amount of intuitiveness and perception that they do. I would also add Missandei to the list of intelligent pre-teens. Other than that there's not many pre-teens who have been featured enough to actually judge their intelligence. Maybe Wex, but I don't know how much of his story is actually true. Podrick hasn't displayed anything that would be considered intelligent; loyalty and bravery sure.

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  • Missandei from Naath
  • Big Walder Frey
  • Shireen Baratheon

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I think that the proposals made are good ones. What makes Missandei differ from the others is that she is highly intelligent, but never has to prove intelligent behaviour under stress. Arya, Big Walder Frey and Bran have to make the right decision very often with their life at stake. And amongst these three until she is in Braavos (and even there to be kept by the Faceless Men) Arya is practically on her own and only survives because she takes the right decisions. Her intelligence here shows by learning quickly and following all good advice (e.g. from Syrio Forel) she has received from grown ups she has been with.

So, in fact the question might be split into two: Theoretical intelligence (here Missandei would probably top) or practical intelligence (here I would put Arya first).

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Posted (edited)

A few remarks:

  1. Shireen never taught Davos to read. Maester Pylos did.
  2. Sweetrobin knows what he knows about people waiting for him to die, because his mother told him so. It's not a deduction he made by himself.
  3. Succession is, by a very fair assumption, all that Frey children have been hearing about since the day they were born. And watching their mouth would be a *must*, taking into account what Merret narrates in his epilogue. So, not a sign of great intelligence, really. (PS: Sansa learns the same lessons very quickly once she has to, but she's still not held in high regard concerning her intelligence by many people...)
  4. Why is it that Arya is never given credit for the five languages (besides westerosi: high valyrian, braavosi, pentosi, lyseni and the commerce tongue) that she speaks, while a similar feat usually grants Missandei one of the top spots in such lists? Given, also, that Arya learns the four of them in a ridiculously short amount of time.
Edited by ShadowCat Rivers

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Posted (edited)

  1. Missandei - The girl survived Kraznys and knew enough to feed the man bullshit that he wanted to hear.  She's very perceptive of people to the point of reading their emotions.
  2. Big Walder - He's a plotter and a schemer of a high order.  He's small in size and puts him in a difficult position against Little Walder but his smarts will give him the edge in politics. 
  3. Sweetrobin Arryn - Credit mother's milk.  He understands politics very well.
  4. Arya - She's resourceful but her decisions do make me question her intelligence.  She shows poor judgment.
  5. Jojen - Mature and serious boy but not boring like another serious boy (Jon). 

Podrick, Shireen, Bran, are average.

On 3/10/2017 at 5:51 AM, Lame Lothar Frey said:

1.  Who in your opinion is the most intelligent pre-teen character in the story? 

2.  Please rank the list below in order of most intelligent down to the least.

3.  Pick the most interesting character to you from the list below.

  • Bran Stark
  • Willa Manderly
  • Big Walder Frey
  • Arya Stark
  • Missandei from Naath
  • Myrcella Baratheon
  • Rickon Stark
  • Edric Dayne
  • Shireen Baratheon
  • Robin Arryn

Take note that I left Sansa Stark out because she is 13 of age and up for most of the story.  And really, Sansa  does not belong on any list of intelligence anyway.  Pre-teen is an age before thirteen for the purpose of our survey. 

1.  Missandei

3.  I'm most interested in Big Walder.  He deserves to inherit House Frey.  His Blackwood genes might give him some warging abilities too.  Missandei is another fascinating prepubescent due to her unusual ability to grasp languages and read people's feelings.  We can't leave out Bran.  Treeboy  is not on my favorite list but his story arc can get interesting.

Edited by Steelshanks Walton

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From the list I choose Arya, Bran and Missandei.

 

On 3/10/2017 at 3:22 PM, rotting sea cow said:

No, no, no. Sansa is also intelligent, but her conventional education and former passive attitude took a big hit to her, but it's mostly her parent's fault.

Some people think naive = stupid. but it's not.

I think her biggest flaw was her childish fantasies and dreams and as you mentioned that was mostly her parent's (and Septa's) fault.

In my opinion she is quite smart and perceptive.

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