The Most Intelligent Pre-Teen?

[Philokles]

1 hour ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

Why is it that Arya is never given credit for the five languages (besides westerosi: high valyrian, braavosi, pentosi, lyseni and the commerce tongue) that she speaks, while a similar feat usually grants Missandei one of the top spots in such lists? Given, also, that Arya learns the four of them in a ridiculously short amount of time.

And without an accent, so that native Braavosi unquestionably believe she is one of them.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

1. Missandei is the most intelligent and well educated.

2.Considering their intelligence:

1. Missandei 
2. Bran Stark
3. Arya Stark
4. Myrcella Baratheon
5. Shireen Baratheon
6. Edric Dayne
7. Willa Manderly
8. Big Walder Frey
9. Rickon Stark
10. Robin Arryn

3. The most interesting is Bran. He has much to see about the Others and the Stark history.

[Phedra]

It's not that simple, Bran and Missandei developed their cognitive intelligence, Shireen her emotional intelligence and Arya her kinesthetic intelligence.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

4 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

And without an accent, so that native Braavosi unquestionably believe she is one of them.

True, but nevertheless, being good at accents is a talent that's not much to do with intelligence.

The ability to learn, though, is an indication of it and it's really amazing that in Arya's case it is simply handwaved as if there was *nothing* in the books about it. While headcanons about, i.e., Shireen's or other tertiary characters' *assumed* intellectual exploits are stated as if they were textual facts.

 

(Blame the show, for Shireen, but then again, people here should know better.)

[Philokles]

1 hour ago, Phedra said:

It's not that simple, Bran and Missandei developed their cognitive intelligence, Shireen her emotional intelligence and Arya her kinesthetic intelligence.

Arya goes beyond kinesthetic intelligence. Her broad range is why I'd put her top of this list, though Bran and Missandei are preternaturally clever as well. For a similar reason, I'd class Oberyn as the most intelligent adult.

[a black swan]

2 hours ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

True, but nevertheless, being good at accents is a talent that's not much to do with intelligence.

The ability to learn, though, is an indication of it and it's really amazing that in Arya's case it is simply handwaved as if there was *nothing* in the books about it. While headcanons about, i.e., Shireen's or other tertiary characters' *assumed* intellectual exploits are stated as if they were textual facts.

 

(Blame the show, for Shireen, but then again, people here should know better.)

Very true!

If we factor in her age, the level of danger, learning about poisons and potions while blind is high risk. She was blinded early, her education advanced quickly, they would have only done so because she progressed beyond a certain line and was ready for the next phase. 

 

Quote

 

On the day she had woken blind, the waif took her by the hand and led her through the vaults and tunnels of the rock on which the House of Black and White was built, up the steep stone steps into the temple proper. "Count the steps as you climb," she had said. "Let your fingers brush the wall. There are markings there, invisible to the eye, plain to the touch."

That was her first lesson. There had been many more.

Poisons and potions were for the afternoons. 

...

Then there is the lying game that is completely mind games. She can't see the person. 

 

In the evening she played the lying game with the waif, but without eyes to see the game was very different. Sometimes all she had to go on was tone and choice of words; other times the waif allowed her to lay hands upon her face. At first the game was much, much harder, the next thing to impossible ... but just when she was near the point of screaming with frustration, it all became much easier. She learned to hear the lies, to feel them in the play of the muscles around the mouth and eyes. 

...

Many of her other duties had remained the same, but as she went about them she stumbled over furnishings, walked into walls, dropped trays, got hopelessly helplessly lost inside the temple. Once she almost fell head-long down the steps, but Syrio Forel had taught her balance in another lifetime, when she was the girl called Arya, and somehow she recovered and caught herself in time.

...

"You have five senses," the kindly man said. "Learn to use the other four, you will have fewer cuts and scrapes and scabs."

She could feel air currents on her skin now. She could find the kitchens by their smell, tell men from women by their scents. She knew Umma and the servants and the acolytes by the pattern of their footfalls, could tell one from the other before they got close enough to smell -

...

When the serving men arrived to bear the corpse away, the blind girl followed them. She let their footsteps be her guide, but when they made their descent she counted. She knew the counts of all the steps by heart. Under the temple was a maze of vaults and tunnels where even men with two good eyes were often lost, but the blind girl had learned every inch of it, and she had her stick to help her find her way should her memory falter.

 

 

She uses all her senses to navigate the streets at night:

Quote

 

As she made her way past the temples, she could hear the acolytes of the Cult of Starry Wisdom atop their scrying tower, singing to the evening stars. A wisp of scented smoke hung in the air, drawing her down the winding path to where the red priests had fired the great iron braziers outside the house of the Lord of Light. Soon she could even feel the heat in the air, as red R'hllor's worshipers lifted their voices in prayer. "For the night is dark and full of terrors, " they prayed.

Not for me. Her nights were bathed in moonlight and filled with the songs of her pack, with the taste of red meat torn off the bone, with the warm familiar smells of her grey cousins. Only during the days was she alone and blind.

 

 

I think it takes a lot of emotional intelligence to succeed at the lying game. A lot of her time is spent observing people and understanding them. 

 

 

[TheWitch]

I don't think we know enough about a number of the characters mentioned to make any real assessment of their intellect. Only POVs and characters close to POV's really offer us enough detailed insight.

However, I would say the problem with this topic is the way in which we define intelligence. It's been pointed out that there is a difference between characters fortunate to have a good education, and those who were denied one. Many of the common people and noble women of the story would be more formidable intellectually if they received the education given to high-born men. However, even those characters who are educated can lack perception and the ability to think and act independently. Do we attribute resourcefulness to their ranking? Do we consider wit?

It's really down to how you understand the word 'intelligent'.

[Luddagain]

Probably a good idea to read what GRRM writes re intelligence assuming this means book learning and memory sort of intelligence.

Missandei is a whiz as is Arya. Give them both 3 points.

Arya is also very good at maths and numbers - another two points

Maester Luwin tells us Bran has a very good head and he shows great wisdom in and is perceptive about people.

Myrcella is very good at cyvasse which is GRRM code for saying very smart.

However since we never see them together all we can really say is that these four kids are noted for having brains.

As for Little Walder - he has rat cunning - not sure if it translates to intelligence. it may do.

[Victor Newman]

11 hours ago, Steelshanks Walton said:

Missandei - The girl survived Kraznys and knew enough to feed the man bullshit that he wanted to hear.  She's very perceptive of people to the point of reading their emotions.

For the same reasons, she gets my vote as the smartest.  She was taken from her home and enslaved.  Yet her resourcefulness and intelligence made her valuable to Kraznys.  How many lucrative business deals  Kraznys Mo Naklos closed profitably because of Missandei.    She is superior to everyone on this list.

1. Missandei
2. Myrcella
3. Big Walder Frey
4. Jojen Reed
5. Aegon (Egg)

Most Interesting - Missandei

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

Smartest

1- Missandei

2- Arya

3- Shireen/Bran

 

Most Interesting

1- Arya

2- Rickon

3- Edric Dayne

[Beautiful Bloody Sword]

I was wondering why so many people have such high esteem for the intellect of Big Walder? 

Personally, I think he's a little grasping weasel, a brown noser, and an Eddie Haskell. I don't see much of a high intelligence quotient in him, more of a low cunning and decietfulness. I mean, he's not an idiot or anything, and he knows about the Frey succession order and can outwit a rather dull cousin of the same name, but that's not really impressive to me.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 10/3/2017 at 0:51 PM, Lame Lothar Frey said:

• Willa Manderly

Wylla is not a pre teen. She was born in 284-285, She is around Dany's age.

On 10/3/2017 at 1:52 PM, rotting sea cow said:

- Wex

- Satin

Satin is 18.  Podrick Payne, Wex and Jojen are in Sansa's age.

 

My top 5;

1. Arya; 

2. Bran

3. Myrcella 

4. Shireen

5. Big Walder Frey

 

Most interesting;

1. Arya

2. Bran

3. Shireen

4. Ned Dayne

5. Sweet Robin.

 

I am not sure is Missandei is the one who she claims to be so I don't count her.

[Targaryen Restoration]

13 hours ago, Take Me 2 Your Leader said:

For the same reasons, she gets my vote as the smartest.  She was taken from her home and enslaved.  Yet her resourcefulness and intelligence made her valuable to Kraznys.  How many lucrative business deals  Kraznys Mo Naklos closed profitably because of Missandei.    She is superior to everyone on this list.

1. Missandei
2. Myrcella
3. Big Walder Frey
4. Jojen Reed
5. Aegon (Egg)

Most Interesting - Missandei

1.  Missandei is the smartest. 

2.  Missandei, Egg, Myrcella, Big Walder, Shireen, Bran, Robin Arryn, and Arya.

3.  Big Walder is the one that interests me. He should become the Lord of the Crossing.

[Phedra]

18 hours ago, Horse of Kent said:

Arya goes beyond kinesthetic intelligence. Her broad range is why I'd put her top of this list, though Bran and Missandei are preternaturally clever as well. For a similar reason, I'd class Oberyn as the most intelligent adult.

I agree about Oberyn, but Arya lacks emotion, the right kind at least. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

30 minutes ago, Phedra said:

I agree about Oberyn, but Arya lacks emotion, the right kind at least. 

Firstly welcome! Secondly; What? Arya lacks emotion? And who is to say what is the right kind of emotion or what isn't?

[a black swan]

1 hour ago, Phedra said:

I agree about Oberyn, but Arya lacks emotion, the right kind at least. 

What do you even mean? 

[rotting sea cow]

On 3/11/2017 at 3:06 PM, ShadowCat Rivers said:

 

1. Why is it that Arya is never given credit for the five languages (besides westerosi: high valyrian, braavosi, pentosi, lyseni and the commerce tongue) that she speaks, while a similar feat usually grants Missandei one of the top spots in such lists? Given, also, that Arya learns the four of them in a ridiculously short amount of time.

If I understand it correctly, this is one of the consequences of killing the infamous five-year-gap. Bran and Arya are now wonder kids who completed their training in mere months instead of years. But the consequences of the gap on the story as a whole were probably much worse. 

[ShadowCat Rivers]

1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

If I understand it correctly, this is one of the consequences of killing the infamous five-year-gap. Bran and Arya are now wonder kids who completed their training in mere months instead of years. But the consequences of the gap on the story as a whole were probably much worse. 

I agree that, to some extent, the younger characters' story arcs suffer from the elimination of the 5 year gap. However, to the topic at hand, it is not important whether Arya learns what she learns in perhaps too short of a time, but the fact that she, indeed, has learnt it. Which is treated as non-existent by many, when it shouldn't because like it or not it's in the text.

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, ShadowCat Rivers said:

I agree that, to some extent, the younger characters' story arcs suffer from the elimination of the 5 year gap. However, to the topic at hand, it is not important whether Arya learns what she learns in perhaps too short of a time, but the fact that she, indeed, has learnt it. Which is treated as non-existent by many, when it shouldn't because like it or not it's in the text.

Oh, yeah. Arya is surely the most intelligent of the Starks, far above Robb or Jon. I really enjoy her chapters, contrary to those of her sister. After Davos, she is my favorite PoV. Third is Dany.

[Phedra]

On 12.03.2017 at 7:53 PM, DutchArya said:

What do you even mean? 

 

On 12.03.2017 at 6:59 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Firstly welcome! Secondly; What? Arya lacks emotion? And who is to say what is the right kind of emotion or what isn't?

Thank you! I know it's quite judgemental, but I don't associate emotional intelligence with dark grey characters and generally with people who lack empathy. And Arya seems to go into that sort of direction.