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NFL Offseason: Trail of Tears or My Cousin Kirky


Manhole Eunuchsbane

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JS4P-

Granted that vision is his weakness, and always will be. But I think offsetting that with a normalized physical talent aspect is pretty misleading. From a reductionist POV he's a freak when it comes to physical ability. Best running QB, maybe ever, with one of the game's true cannons. 

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3 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

JS4P-

Granted that vision is his weakness, and always will be. But I think offsetting that with a normalized physical talent aspect is pretty misleading. From a reductionist POV he's a freak when it comes to physical ability. Best running QB, maybe ever, with one of the game's true cannons. 

I'm not trying to say he's a bad QB because he has bad vision and isn't a physical freak.  

I think vision is far and away the most important ability to be able to play QB.  I don't care if you're a LT who can run block like a bulldozer but constantly gives up sacks.  I don't care if you're a CB that can hit like Clowney but constantly gets burned.  I don't care if you're a free safety who can catch the ball better than OBJ but can't cover.  I don't care if you're a genius X's and O's head coach but can't achieve your players' potential or hire the people to bridge that gap.

So yeah, the athleticism is a nice additional thing.  But it's missing the foundation.  You don't need the Peyton Manning, multiple piers drilled into the earth over-engineered foundation.  But you need that concrete slab so we can take the quality wood and steel and glass and make something with it. 

Now, I like him as a short term option, particularly for a team built to win via the run.  If the Cowboys had cap space and he'd take 4-5M a season, I'd love him.  Buffalo could be great behind Taylor. He could be a great backup for Mariota.  But I don't think he's capable of being a starting QB. 

39 minutes ago, sperry said:

 

The point of a protest is to draw attention. You want him to protest where he's not going to draw attention because you don't like what he's saying.

I'm actually pretty anti-politics in most situations.  I hate when the family talks about it around the house, even though I agree on about 70% of it. It's a ridiculously divisive subject that leads to more straw manning, dehumanizing, and general thick-headedness than anything else I've ever seen.  

Anyway, off to beat my little brother at tennis.

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1 hour ago, briantw said:

I'm a Browns fan.  Our team has no QB.  I don't want any part of Kaepernick, and it has nothing to do with his protest.  I couldn't care less about guys kneeling during the anthem.  He's just not a good QB, and he plays a style that has largely been exposed across the league and is no longer terribly effective.  

But I suspect that part of the reason you don't want him on the Browns is that it's a bad fit. Also, Kaep is very similar to Newton and he just took the Panthers to the Owl. 

1 hour ago, JonSnow4President said:

 

I think that's high.  I know PFF had him 26 of starters in actual grade last year (article factors in opinion, but I'm basing that off the actual grades listed), and that's with a few guys injured (although that allows a couple guys to get ahead of him).  By comparison, Bortles was 27 and within one point of Kaep. The physical skill is quality, but the vision/reads are bad. I'm of the opinion that vision/read are about 80% of quarterbacking once you get above a certain physical skill ceiling. 

 

 

I'm not here trying to argue that the Kaep of four years ago who looked like he could become an elite QB still exists, but he's also not nearly as bad as some people make him out to be. He's flawed in some ways, but he's still one of the 32 best QBs on the planet. There is no reason from a football perspective that he shouldn't be on a team and competing for a starting gig.

1 hour ago, James Arryn said:

Your prerogative, but I wonder how much you saw him play last year. In the Rams game I mentioned, for example, he was far and away the best player, without any running game to speak of (leading rusher 38 yards on 13 carries) and throwing to a receiving corps almost entirely manned by NDFA's behind a patchwork (to be kind) OL. It's really hard to describe what he had to work with, and that's a pretty typical afternoon. Despite this he ended with a QBR of ~ 91 and a 4:1 TD ratio while remaining the best rushing QB in the game. 

I like this quote I heard about Kaep:

Quote

It's hard to say that Kaepernick is bad when you look at his stats and then consider that he played behind a bottom 5 NFL O-Line and played with a bottom 5 NFL receiving core that also had the highest percentage of drops.

Also look how much better he played with that garbage than The Pain Train!

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43 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

I'm actually pretty anti-politics in most situations.  I hate when the family talks about it around the house, even though I agree on about 70% of it. It's a ridiculously divisive subject that leads to more straw manning, dehumanizing, and general thick-headedness than anything else I've ever seen.  

Anyway, off to beat my little brother at tennis.

Discussion for another day (and thread), I suppose. I hope that people that want to discuss politics will respect the wishes of the privileged. No need to discuss the issues of police brutality, mass incarceration, etc. in the public view as many people at too thick-headed to reasonably converse.

...

...Ok, I'll stop now and see myself out.

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45 minutes ago, Week said:

Discussion for another day (and thread), I suppose. I hope that people that want to discuss politics will respect the wishes of the privileged. No need to discuss the issues of police brutality, mass incarceration, etc. in the public view as many people at too thick-headed to reasonably converse.

...

...Ok, I'll stop now and see myself out.

Point proven.  

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2 hours ago, JonSnow4President said:

Point proven.  

If you say so.

Personally, I'm very excited at the possibility of Beast Mode going to the Raiders (while they are still in Oakland too). That team should be an offensive juggernaut next year.

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1 hour ago, Week said:

If you say so.

Personally, I'm very excited at the possibility of Beast Mode going to the Raiders (while they are still in Oakland too). That team should be an offensive juggernaut next year.

I'm not sure on him.  A year off can be both bad and good, depending on how he kept in shape.  He also had a pretty bad last year in Seattle (at least perception wise). I can't remember when he got hurt or if he tried to play through it, just that he wasn't a good fantasy asset.  His line certainly didn't make it easier, which would be a huge plus in Seattle.  If he had anything left in the tank, could be a big year, and it sounds like he really wanted to play for them and only them.  Not sure if it will work out from a money standpoint though. 

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On 3/22/2017 at 4:42 PM, briantw said:

I personally am uninterested in any QB whose best skill is their rushing.

under Harbaugh he was a totally different QB. i think thats Jims best quality as a coach. With Luck at Stanford it was hard to know how great a coach he was, but he has truly shown to be a great coach. I would love Kapernick as my qb if Harbaugh coached the team.

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16 minutes ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

under Harbaugh he was a totally different QB. i think thats Jims best quality as a coach. With Luck at Stanford it was hard to know how great a coach he was, but he has truly shown to be a great coach. I would love Kapernick as my qb if Harbaugh coached the team.

I'd almost like a high school 5 star prospect if Harbaugh coached the team. I haven't been an NFL fan for long, but to me that is the second dumbest head coach termination ever.

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2 hours ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

under Harbaugh he was a totally different QB. i think thats Jims best quality as a coach. With Luck at Stanford it was hard to know how great a coach he was, but he has truly shown to be a great coach. I would love Kapernick as my qb if Harbaugh coached the team.

Yeah, I think people have kind of revised history to where he was an Alex Smith type whose D and running game hid for a while, but the second half season/playoffs of the Super Bowl run he was the guy carrying the team. Anyone remember when he out duelled Brady? Lead the NFL in ay/a, was PFF's best graded/most accurate deep passer and top 5 intermediate, etc. There's more 'there' there than I think commonly perceived. Now his limitations are always going to make him less effective in some types of offence, so I get that, but otherwise he's a guy worth exploring. He's been working with drech the last couple years.

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1 minute ago, James Arryn said:

Yeah, I think people have kind of revised history to where he was an Alex Smith type whose D and running game hid for a while, but the second half season/playoffs of the Super Bowl run he was the guy carrying the team. Anyone remember when he out duelled Brady? Lead the NFL in ay/a, was PFF's best graded/most accurate deep passer and top 5 intermediate, etc. There's more 'there' there than I think commonly percueved. Now his limitations are always going to make him less effective in some types of offence, so I get that, but otherwise he's a guy worth exploring. He's been working with drech the last couple years.

yea, smith was viewed as a huge bust before Harbaugh. smith has a lot of weaknesses, but with Jim he was pro bowl material. Hes doing decent in KC now, but is really viewed as a qb who wont lose you the game, and not one who can win you the game.

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9 minutes ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

yea, smith was viewed as a huge bust before Harbaugh. smith has a lot of weaknesses, but with Jim he was pro bowl material. Hes doing decent in KC now, but is really viewed as a qb who wont lose you the game, and not one who can win you the game.

Yeah, though in fairness he's stepped up on several occasions when his team needed him to switch to gunslinger. 

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18 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Yeah, I think people have kind of revised history to where he was an Alex Smith type whose D and running game hid for a while, but the second half season/playoffs of the Super Bowl run he was the guy carrying the team. Anyone remember when he out duelled Brady? Lead the NFL in ay/a, was PFF's best graded/most accurate deep passer and top 5 intermediate, etc. There's more 'there' there than I think commonly perceived. Now his limitations are always going to make him less effective in some types of offence, so I get that, but otherwise he's a guy worth exploring. He's been working with drech the last couple years.

Beat Rodgers a couple of times in close games as well. I think he set the QB rushing record against the Pack in that playoff game a few years back.

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