Manhole Eunuchsbane

NFL Offseason: Trail of Tears or My Cousin Kirky

444 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, briantw said:

Eh...I don't expect the team to go from one win to over .500, but I am encouraged that they may have actually hired people who know what the fuck they're doing.

That sounds reasonable.

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On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 4:01 PM, briantw said:

Eh...I don't expect the team to go from one win to over .500, but I am encouraged that they may have actually hired people who know what the fuck they're doing.

This is what Detroit fans are thinking right now as well. Detroit has been better recently than Cleveland but still make a lot of dumb moves. Quinn as GM has so far been making choices that seem to be correct. He let two under achieving FA lineman leave for big pay days and in turn replaced them with two of the best FA lineman available. Detroit - Cleveland 2020 SB! Yeah not really

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1 hour ago, dbunting said:

If so it has to be the owners who inherited because any self made person wouldn't fear that blow hard.

Eh, most businesses want to avoid any negative press. I'm not going to take an owner to task for that. It's the owners and GMs that hate him that are in the wrong.

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3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, most businesses want to avoid any negative press. I'm not going to take an owner to task for that. It's the owners and GMs that hate him that are in the wrong.

And at the same time many believe any publicity is good publicity!

BTW, is Lang going to be missed in GB? It's weird to see a valued player leave GB and go to Detroit.

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4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, most businesses want to avoid any negative press. I'm not going to take an owner to task for that. It's the owners and GMs that hate him that are in the wrong.

Yeah, again I'll point out the insanity of Kaepernick's place way atop the 'most hated athlete in America' polls. Much more hated than muderers, rapists, child abusers, animal torturers, cheaters, etc. The anthem related surge itself was greater than the total of the second most hated athlete. Supposedly a majority of NFL front offices literally view him as a 'traitor', (though this is a word-of-mouth 'poll' done by reporters rather than a real one).

For the unholy crime of criticizing 'Merica and not standing for the anthem. 

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33 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Yeah, again I'll point out the insanity of Kaepernick's place way atop the 'most hated athlete in America' polls. Much more hated than muderers, rapists, child abusers, animal torturers, cheaters, etc. The anthem related surge itself was greater than the total of the second most hated athlete. Supposedly a majority of NFL front offices literally view him as a 'traitor', (though this is a word-of-mouth 'poll' done by reporters rather than a real one).

For the unholy crime of criticizing 'Merica and not standing for the anthem. 

I don't disagree that it's ridiculous he was atop that list for what he did, but this is a consequence of free speech.  You can say whatever you want, but people don't have to hire you if they disagree with your message or think you'll cause them unnecessary headaches.

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34 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Yeah, again I'll point out the insanity of Kaepernick's place way atop the 'most hated athlete in America' polls. Much more hated than muderers, rapists, child abusers, animal torturers, cheaters, etc. The anthem related surge itself was greater than the total of the second most hated athlete. Supposedly a majority of NFL front offices literally view him as a 'traitor', (though this is a word-of-mouth 'poll' done by reporters rather than a real one).

For the unholy crime of criticizing 'Merica and not standing for the anthem. 

He needs some Republican freedom.

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16 minutes ago, briantw said:

I don't disagree that it's ridiculous he was atop that list for what he did, but this is a consequence of free speech.  You can say whatever you want, but people don't have to hire you if they disagree with your message or think you'll cause them unnecessary headaches.

Of course, but those consequences also speak loudly themselves. And as for headaches, Kaepernick won the 49ers player-voted award for best teammate, so the 'distraction/division' rhetoric would seem to be a contrivance from a football POV. To be honest, I actually think the Niners front office handled this whole thing really well, even (maybe especially) Jed York. It didn't seem to be much of an issue at home at all, though it was kind of an angry road show for crowds in other stadiums.

On an aside, just read that the Niners gave up 41+ points in 5 of Kaep's last 18 starts, which is a pretty astonishing number. 

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20 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Of course, but those consequences also speak loudly themselves. And as for headaches, Kaepernick won the 49ers player-voted award for best teammate, so the 'distraction/division' rhetoric would seem to be a contrivance from a football POV. To be honest, I actually think the Niners front office handled this whole thing really well, even (maybe especially) Jed York. It didn't seem to be much of an issue at home at all, though it was kind of an angry road show for crowds in other stadiums.

On an aside, just read that the Niners gave up 41+ points in 5 of Kaep's last 18 starts, which is a pretty astonishing number. 

When I said headaches, I meant more from a PR and fan perspective than a team chemistry issue.

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The fact of the matter is that Kaepernick's actions didn't sit well with the NFL's largest consumer base, white republican males. That was always a problem.

 

Of course these people are hypocrites, and they'd tolerate a flag-disrespecting brown guy if he was winning games for their football team, but Kaepernick is a middle of the road backup QB. There are plenty of those, thus he's in trouble.

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15 minutes ago, sperry said:

The fact of the matter is that Kaepernick's actions didn't sit well with the NFL's largest consumer base, white republican males. That was always a problem.

Of course these people are hypocrites, and they'd tolerate a flag-disrespecting brown guy if he was winning games for their football team, but Kaepernick is a middle of the road backup QB. There are plenty of those, thus he's in trouble.

Your ability to protest successfully in a situation like this is directly tied to how good you are at your job.  If Aaron Rodgers took a knee during the anthem, he'd still have thirty teams willing to offer him a free agent contract.  Unfortunately for Kaepernick, he's a replacement-level back-up QB, and so he may not be signed.  

Is it hypocritical?  Sure.  But Kaepernick opted to take a stand and now he, like many before him, is dealing with the consequences.

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Kaep is no where near a replacement level backup. Most of the top QB scouts have him in that 16-24 range among starters and his stats last year weren't bad, especially when you consider how bad that team was. 

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Kaep is no where near a replacement level backup. Most of the top QB scouts have him in that 16-24 range among starters and his stats last year weren't bad, especially when you consider how bad that team was. 

I'm a Browns fan.  Our team has no QB.  I don't want any part of Kaepernick, and it has nothing to do with his protest.  I couldn't care less about guys kneeling during the anthem.  He's just not a good QB, and he plays a style that has largely been exposed across the league and is no longer terribly effective.  

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21 minutes ago, briantw said:

I'm a Browns fan.  Our team has no QB.  I don't want any part of Kaepernick, and it has nothing to do with his protest.  I couldn't care less about guys kneeling during the anthem.  He's just not a good QB, and he plays a style that has largely been exposed across the league and is no longer terribly effective.  

As a Browns fan, you should totally love Kapernick. He almost single-handedly returned the top pick to you guys at the end of the season. Fuck I hated him at that moment. 

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Just now, James Arryn said:

As a Browns fan, you should totally love Kapernick. He almost single-handedly returned the top pick to you guys at the end of the season. Fuck I hated him at that moment. 

I love him for that, but I don't want him as my team's QB.

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30 minutes ago, sperry said:

The fact of the matter is that Kaepernick's actions didn't sit well with the NFL's largest consumer base, white republican males. That was always a problem.

 

Of course these people are hypocrites, and they'd tolerate a flag-disrespecting brown guy if he was winning games for their football team, but Kaepernick is a middle of the road backup QB. There are plenty of those, thus he's in trouble.

As a white republican male (albeit young and not middle aged/old), my complaint was more time/place/manner rather than content (aka, the I'd be fired for doing that at my job complaint).  Compare that to Doug Baldwin's actions off the field, or the Cowboys' players trying to bring together police and their communities.  Or hell, pull an Elway and right a letter.  IDC if he has a separate press conference away from the football organization, like Sherman's multiple media interviews outside.  I disagree with Kaep, but my bones were always with the time/place of his protest.

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Kaep is no where near a replacement level backup. Most of the top QB scouts have him in that 16-24 range among starters and his stats last year weren't bad, especially when you consider how bad that team was. 

I think that's high.  I know PFF had him 26 of starters in actual grade last year (article factors in opinion, but I'm basing that off the actual grades listed), and that's with a few guys injured (although that allows a couple guys to get ahead of him).  By comparison, Bortles was 27 and within one point of Kaep. The physical skill is quality, but the vision/reads are bad. I'm of the opinion that vision/read are about 80% of quarterbacking once you get above a certain physical skill ceiling. 

Quote

Kaepernick has performed at a slightly better level than last year, still not instilling confidence that he’s back on track to be a long-term starter in the league. He ranks 33rd in adjusted completion percentage at 68.1 percent and his 92.6 passer rating from a clean pocket ranks 29th in the league.

With that said, a low end starter who is fairly young with upside should at least have teams excited as a premium backup.  Unless he has a completely unrealistic expectation of what he deserves to be paid, he should be signed with a team already.  

Looking at teams that need starters and that he graded higher than, I'm also not sure where he fits in the market.  I think Denver/Houston going for him as the starter would be a mistake as I don't think he's capable of winning a Super Bowl in his current state, and those teams should be in "all-in" mode. The Jets, Giants, Jags, and Rams are the only other teams with lower graded starting QBs.  The Jets are in full rebuild, and I don't think really need a QB besides depth until they find their long-term prayer.  The Giants have Eli.  This may be a result of my Cowboys fandom, but I think Eli is circling the toilet at an alarming rate. I'd be behind going with the younger guy and trying to get the long-term answer as well, but I highly doubt the Giants are cutting their 2x SB champ QB despite his inability (in my eyes) to help his team win. The Jags could also make sense, but they'd take a 6M cap hit cutting Bortles and be paying Kaep more, and they know they're not competing this year.

 

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3 minutes ago, JonSnow4President said:

As a white republican male (albeit young and not middle aged/old), my complaint was more time/place/manner rather than content (aka, the I'd be fired for doing that at my job complaint).  Compare that to Doug Baldwin's actions off the field, or the Cowboys' players trying to bring together police and their communities.  Or hell, pull an Elway and right a letter.  IDC if he has a separate press conference away from the football organization, like Sherman's multiple media interviews outside.  I disagree with Kaep, but my bones were always with the time/place of his protest.

I think that's high.  I know PFF had him 26 of starters in actual grade last year (article factors in opinion, but I'm basing that off the actual grades listed), and that's with a few guys injured (although that allows a couple guys to get ahead of him).  By comparison, Bortles was 27 and within one point of Kaep. The physical skill is quality, but the vision/reads are bad. I'm of the opinion that vision/read are about 80% of quarterbacking once you get above a certain physical skill ceiling. 

With that said, a low end starter who is fairly young with upside should at least have teams excited as a premium backup.  Unless he has a completely unrealistic expectation of what he deserves to be paid, he should be signed with a team already.  

Looking at teams that need starters and that he graded higher than, I'm also not sure where he fits in the market.  I think Denver/Houston going for him as the starter would be a mistake as I don't think he's capable of winning a Super Bowl in his current state, and those teams should be in "all-in" mode. The Jets, Giants, Jags, and Rams are the only other teams with lower graded starting QBs.  The Jets are in full rebuild, and I don't think really need a QB besides depth until they find their long-term prayer.  The Giants have Eli.  This may be a result of my Cowboys fandom, but I think Eli is circling the toilet at an alarming rate. I'd be behind going with the younger guy and trying to get the long-term answer as well, but I highly doubt the Giants are cutting their 2x SB champ QB despite his inability (in my eyes) to help his team win. The Jags could also make sense, but they'd take a 6M cap hit cutting Bortles and be paying Kaep more, and they know they're not competing this year.

 

 

The point of a protest is to draw attention. You want him to protest where he's not going to draw attention because you don't like what he's saying.

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3 minutes ago, briantw said:

I love him for that, but I don't want him as my team's QB.

Your prerogative, but I wonder how much you saw him play last year. In the Rams game I mentioned, for example, he was far and away the best player, without any running game to speak of (leading rusher 38 yards on 13 carries) and throwing to a receiving corps almost entirely manned by NDFA's behind a patchwork (to be kind) OL. It's really hard to describe what he had to work with, and that's a pretty typical afternoon. Despite this he ended with a QBR of ~ 91 and a 4:1 TD ratio while remaining the best rushing QB in the game. 

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