Manhole Eunuchsbane

NFL Offseason: Trail of Tears or My Cousin Kirky

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Just now, Nictarion said:

If Andy Dalton survives playing 2 games a year against you guys with Garrett with the oline we're going to be putting out there it'll be a miracle. 

The Browns defense has a chance to see a major turn around this season between Garrett (likely the first pick) and the continued development of guys like Ogbah, Shelton, and Nassib, all of whom looked good last year.  Plus they have the 12th pick and the 33rd pick, one or both of which could be used on defensive players in a stacked defensive draft.

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3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Hmmm. Retirement on the horizon maybe?

Could be loading up for a final run over the next few seasons, but it's not like he's needed to do it this way before to be the best. Maybe just felt like switching it up for shits and giggles. If they weren't already the favorites the win the Superb Owl before today, they definitely are runaway faves now.

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Just now, Joe Pesci said:

Could be loading up for a final run over the next few seasons, but it's not like he's needed to do it this way before to be the best. Maybe just felt like switching it up for shits and giggles. If they weren't already the favorites the win the Superb Owl before today, they definitely are runaway faves now.

Yay. 

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Posted (edited)

So much going on (and I have a trial on Wednesday and another two weeks later so I am swamped- sorry for not posting).  For brevity sake I am going to limit my commentary to Pats players and deals the Pats have made.

BUT FIRST... Holy Shit!  Brock Osweiler!  You poor dumb, weak-armed, INT spewing hot mess.  Brock was just traded to the Browns not FOR a second-round draft pick in the 2018 but WITH a second round draft pick!  The Browns, who also get Houston's sixth-round pick this year, will use their $102 million in salary cap space to absorb Osweiler's $16 million salary this season. The Texans will get a fourth-round compensatory pick from the Browns, but more importantly, are off the hook for the four-year, $72 million contract they gave Osweiler last year.

That's right folks- Brock Osweiler, the man who the Broncos TRIED DESPERATELY TO KEEP -is now being traded like a NBA expiring contract!  The Browns just purchased a second-round draft pick.  Great work.  And Cleveland was not done there.  Sure, they may be a last place team, but they are throwing shade like a wildcard upstart.  The team released a statement that read:  “We’re really excited to acquire a second round draft choice in this trade,” said Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown. “Draft picks are extremely important to our approach in building a championship caliber football team. We are intent on adding competition to every position on our roster and look forward to having Brock come in and compete.”

That's right folks BROCK OSWEILER- the #1 QB free agent of 2016 is now regulated to "competing" for a job.  That waste of space.  Great statement Browns- you put Brock where he belongs- right behind intangible objects like draft picks.  

Anyhoo.... 

The deal making the most waves (even after the one that happened a few moments ago with the Saints) was the Pats signing CB Stephon Gilmore.  The Pats signed a pseudo #1 corner for a five-year, $65 million contract , $40mil guaranteed.  This is a great move for the Pats and sort of a terrible one.  Its great because if the Pats can keep Gilmore AND Malcom Butler, the Pats have one of if not THE best secondary in the NFL.  The Pats also resigned vet Safety Duron Harmon and have one of the best safeties in the NFL, Devin McCourty, locked up for some time.

The problem is Butler.  The Pats tendered Butler at 3.9 Mil and a first round draft pick as a restricted free agent.  However, Butler is pissed.  All indications are that the Pats and Butler spoke a long tome during the season and had made a lot of progress.  Then the Pats won the Superbowl and Butler played pretty well and so Butler expected a better offer come the off season.  But no offer materialized and the Pats stuck to their last offer before the Superbowl.  THEN the Pats went out and signed Gilmore for .... HUUUUUGGGEEE money.  WTF?!?!  Why not give that $$$ to Butler who, I think, is just better.  Unless, the Pats think they can match any offer for Butler or that Butler will play for $3.9 mil.  If Butler sticks around for one year OR if the Pats end up resigning him (everyone is saying that no new offers have been made since the regular season so I DOUBT that is going to happen) then, once again, wake me for the AFC Championship game (barring injuries).  The Pats will be the most relevant team on D in the AFC.  

But ... I don't see that happening.  I think Butler will command a Gilmore-esque contract and the Pats cannot match that.  The Pats sort of set the market there and if the Jets (without Revis) or Bills (now without Gilmore) could do that.  That sort of feels like a net-loss to me for the Pats; they get a slightly worse DB for too much money.  

But ... if Butler stays... like I said, barring injuries ... the Pats are in this thing the whole way.  

Another side note to this was the loss of solid CB Logan Ryan who played well this season and is now on his way to Tennessee/.  No big loss.  

The Pats also lost Bennett to the Packers.  Bennett sort of limped out of the regular season and did not have a huge impact in the playoffs (3 games, 11 catches 98 yards, 0 TDs)  Bennett lost a gear as the season rolled on and was not "Gronk light."  He was really good, but he never did anything more than threaten to be great.  I would have LOVED to see him do more, but it was not in the Cards.  So the Pats traded for Dwight Allen, TE for the Colts.  If Bennett was a poor-man's Gronkowski, than Allen is a poor-man's Bennett (which makes him a  homeless man's Gronk).  Allen seems like a great add, but I am a little skeptical.  We will see.  

Maybe the most underrated signing was the Pats getting Panthers DE Kony Ealy and a third-round pick from the Panthers in a trade for a second-round pick (Pats lose a whole eight slots). Ealy had a monster Super bowl but has otherwise been only decent.  He's young, talented and has some signs of "very goodness." The Pats, as I have read, have a knack for getting these kind of guys to produce huge.  This may be a deal that everyone looks up at in week 8 and think, "Wait, hod did the Pats turn THAT guy into another monster?!"  

Again, this deal resulted in other losses; the Pats did not resign Chris Long nor Jabaal Sheard (Sheard signed with the Colts).  Neither was a huge loss.  Meanwhile the Pats did resign Allen Branch who had a tremendous season.  

If Butler is the big question mark, the second-biggest question mark is Dont'a Hightower, the Pats D Captain who has been the true power behind this D and had the signature play in Superbowl LI (strip-sack of Matt Ryan).  He is absolutely essential to this D (to the extent any Patriot not named "Tom Brady" could possibly the essential to this team).  All signs point to very positive developments in the contract negotiations but, until such time he is signed, I am on edge here.  

Which leads to the Pats "All In" moment; trading for Brandin Cooks.  Wow.  Just wow.  The Pats have a limited history of trading for offensive weapons and their moves are very very very strong.  Cooks is a classic Pats prototypical WR in the same vein as Dion Branch, Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Julian Edleman and Danny Amendola (the last of which is now assuredly gone). The Pats traded their #32 & 3rd #103 pick to the Saints for wide receiver Brandin Cooks & their 4th #118 pick.  Fucking amazing deal for the Pats.  If Cooks had a great season in 2016 : 78 catches 1173 yards and 8 TDs - better season than all Pats WRs and Gronk.  Monster threat on the Pats and he's SUPER cheap ($2.6 mil  Sorry, apparently he's cheaper than I thought- $1.8 Mil.  Fuck the Pats are insanely good at this ); if he works out they can resign him; if they can't they get him for one huge 2017 season (possibly Brady's last- SEE BELOW).  Amazing deal, great for the Pats.  

 

Which leads to MAYBE the biggest deal the Pats have not made, namely, trading Jimmy Garoppolo.  Earlier in the week the Pats stated that they wanted 2 first rounders for Jimmy G (translation: "We are not trading Jimmy G").  The Pats, supposedly, were offered the Browns #12 pick overall and said no.  Fuck.  I think they should have taken that.  Which leads to this: the Pats may, honestly, believe that Jimmy G is the future of the Pats, and that Tom Brady is deep into the back 9 of his Pats career (Cousins could be traded which leads me to my "Brady-in-a-Washington-DC-Helmet" theory in tact).  That means Jimmy G will ride the pine in 2017 and then want to get paid.  If the Pats franchise him he would be paid $16 mil to sit behind Brady.  Yeah... that will go great.  

Regardless, the Pats may earnestly believe Jimmy G is the future or are confident that they can unload him for something better than the Browns #12.  That is a wait and see, but I think the Pats may be real Jimmy G believers.  

 

Its had to really evaluate free agent signings (like the draft) as they happen but right now its pretty exciting beinga  Pats fan again and things look pretty solid.  I would feel best if the Pats:

1) Resigned Butler; 

2) Resigned Hightower 

3) Traded Jimmy G for a 1st round pick... I ... I think... 

Overall probably a great day for Pats fans.  

Edited by Rockroi
Cooks: Cheaper than I thought

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11 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

Regardless, the Pats may earnestly believe Jimmy G is the future or are confident that they can unload him for something better than the Browns #12.  That is a wait and see, but I think the Pats may be real Jimmy G believers.  

I've heard reports that the Browns haven't even spoken to the Pats about him, so at this point I don't really know what to believe.  I'm a bit unconvinced that the Browns offered #12 for him, though.  That seems like quite the overpay for a guy who hasn't proven anything in the NFL yet.  I think #33 is a more realistic valuation for him.

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1 hour ago, Rockroi said:

BUT FIST...

Easily the greatest series of Gay Midget Clown Porn ever produced by man. 

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Posted (edited)

Right with you on what I want the Pats to do with free agency, Rock. I was very relieved to hear that Butler was not part of the Cooks deal. I know one must be unsentimental in football, but that interception remains my favorite football play ever. Forms a powerful appreciation and an emotional bond. And he's really just all they've ever wanted their players to be. Same with Hightower -- his shoestring tackle on Marshawn Lynch and the strip-sack, of course... Maybe he's approaching Bruschi in my mental rankings.

Word is that during the joint practices the Pats and Saints had a couple of years ago, people (including Butler) raved about Cooks, talked about how no one could cover him. This is how they ended up with Welker and Chris Hogan. I hope it works out. I thought Cooks was complaining about lack of touches in New Orleans? He's not going to get 80 catches in this offense, but he might get 1200 yards...

It sure does seem like Belichick is loading up for this year, isn't he? I support it. When has he ever had this much salary cap to work with? The whole league is throwing money around but they still seem to have made good deals... on paper. Assuming they can coax more out of guys than their previous team did (hi Rex, did you think Belichick was done fucking with you?). This is unorthodox behavior for Belichick, but the other times he's broken the pattern it's worked out. He splurged in 2007 and yes had an epic loss in the Super Bowl, but you can't deny it was one of the most talented and intimidating teams in a generation. And the last time he threw around draft picks like this, trading up to get two first round picks, he got Hightower and Chandler Jones. It's usually a good sign when Belichick is that confident in a player.

They are stacked for this year, but there is good core talent there. Both lines are young, except for Alan Branch and Nate Solder. Gilmore is young, and imagine if they can get Butler for an extension. Then, if they trade Garoppolo, they can restock quite a few positions this year and next.

I'm glad they didn't have to get into the offensive line market. Not like they ever have, but I think of my team needing to court the likes of Matt Kalil and I shiver.

I'm glad for Martellus Bennett. I sincerely wish him success. He seems interesting and original and creative. The more I hear from him, the more I like, usually the opposite of how it goes with NFL players.

Wish I could say I was surprised by Jerry Jones reneging the offer to release Romo. It's smart business to try and get something for him, but that's a shitty thing to do to the guy who literally broke his back over and over returning your franchise to relevance. He probably just shouldn't have made the offer at all. I wonder if his son convinced him to pull back.

Edited by DanteGabriel

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

Changed

This shit is why I'm glad Rotoworld has a 10 minute edit limit for anyone but moderators. Typos are a sense of joy in the world.

Edited by JonSnow4President

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1 hour ago, JonSnow4President said:

This shit is why I'm glad Rotoworld has a 10 minute edit limit for anyone but moderators. Typos are a sense of joy in the world.

Edited 1 hour ago by JonSnow4President

Well played at the end there... 

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52 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

Well played at the end there... 

You mean the edit?  I did that within 15 seconds, and was purely additive, not corrective. 

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11 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Wish I could say I was surprised by Jerry Jones reneging the offer to release Romo. It's smart business to try and get something for him, but that's a shitty thing to do to the guy who literally broke his back over and over returning your franchise to relevance. He probably just shouldn't have made the offer at all. I wonder if his son convinced him to pull back.

I'm a bit surprised as well. Though a few weeks back Bill Parcells was on ESPN radio and he said that if it was decision he would not release Romo if there was a chance he could get something in a trade. Stephen Jones very well may have convinced Jerry to try and get compensation. Another voice is Will McClay who runs their scouting department and has been said to have risen in status in the organization. There's also been a TON of misinformation being spread by Dallas and the likely suitors. Denver and Houston have both leaked they would not trade for him and today Denver has said there is no guarantee they would sign Romo even if he was released. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/11/no-guarantee-broncos-will-pursue-tony-romo-if-released/

Romo's agent has gotten into the act as well with word that FOX Sports is offering Romo a contract to join as an analyst. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2697371-tony-romo-reportedly-receiving-interest-as-analyst-for-fox-sports

I'm kind of leaning now towards compensation. It's apparent they will not be big spenders in free agency. They've lost a bunch of players but will be getting a bunch of compensatory picks next season. The biggest contract they've signed is bringing back Terrence Williams to a VERY reasonable 4 year, $17 million dollar contract. They also signed CB Nolan Carroll and DT Stephen Paea to fairly cheap contracts. They are setting up to be able to draft player available and that's worked well the past few seasons. They've gotten A LOT better in the draft.

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Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I was very relieved to hear that Butler was not part of the Cooks deal. I know one must be unsentimental in football, but that interception remains my favorite football play ever. Forms a powerful appreciation and an emotional bond.

For starters I was thrilled Butler was not part of that trade; Butler is a really good DB and you need those more than you do WRs in this offense.  Brady does just fine passing to RBs and TEs.  But the emotional endorphin we get recalling the Butler INT sort of  blind us in a way; we LIKE Malcom Butler and he makes us feel good.  And, well, that's no reason to sign him to big money.  This is why we repeat the mantra "In Bill We Trust."  Darth Hoodie knows all.  

I think we have to be pragmatic here and not "pleasegodjustresigntheguywhoblewupRicardoLocketteandgivehimwhateverhewants."  But I would feel better if they just resigned him.   The way I look at it, Butler is probably worth about $13 mil a year and the Pats can afford that.  Then again, they got the tender out there so maybe they keep him for $3.9.  

12 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

And he's really just all they've ever wanted their players to be. Same with Hightower -- his shoestring tackle on Marshawn Lynch and the strip-sack, of course... Maybe he's approaching Bruschi in my mental rankings.

And isn't interesting that HERE I think you could make the case that Hightower is actually MORE valuable than Bruschi.  There is no doubt that Bruschi played in a different era where the running game was more pronounced and his lack of versatility in the passing game would not be abused (like it is with High).  But Teddy was not a true defensive star until 2002 (when he was named Captain) at age twenty-nine.  By contrast, Dont'a is currently twenty-seven (will be tomorrow) and was named defensive Captain when he was twenty-six and has been a stud the whole time.  Further, Bruschi had around him guys that had played in the Pats system for years- Vrabel, Ty Law, and Willie McGuiness.  Again, by contrast, the Pats seem to blow up their D every season - since Hightower was inserted into the D in 2012, the Pats have gone through huge names like Vince Wilfork, Jarrod Mayo, Aquib Talib, Chandler Jones, Derrell Revis and Jamie Collins.  Only McCourty has been truly consistent for Hightower.  High also knows this D; he has "the green dot", the sticker on the side of his helmet that allows the sidelines to speak to him via radio head-set.  He runs the D really well and he has a ton of smarts and athletic ability.  The down side?  He's limited as  a pass-rusher and can sometimes get exposed in coverage, and in his five-year career, he has played all 16 games exactly ONCE (2013).  

I think that Hightower is in his true prime and he wants to get paid.  Further, unlike other guys his age, High ALREADY HAS two rings; he does not necessarily need more.  But he does need money.  I think the Pats will sign him to a McCourdy-esque contract that is big but not unbelievable.  Then again, he may be your 2017 starting middle linebacker for the Browns.  

12 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Word is that during the joint practices the Pats and Saints had a couple of years ago, people (including Butler) raved about Cooks,

I have heard the exact same thing; Cooks was all over the place and nobody could stop him.  Belichick put a mental-book mark there and he acted on it.  

So basically no team is going to have joint practices with the Pats any more.  

12 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

He's not going to get 80 catches in this offense, but he might get 1200 yards...

If Cooks gets to 80 catches then its possible something has gone wrong (ie: Gronk is hurt again).  Brady spreads the ball out.  But even there, Edleman had 98 catches and two other guys- White and Bennett - had over 50 each.  Gronk- who only played in seven games (he technically "played" in Brisett's last start but never went out on a pass) - had 25.  Mitchel and Hogan each had 30+.  I think with Cooks you will see a diminution in Amendola's roll on the team (if he is not outright released) and maybe a hick-up with Hogan and/or Mitchell.  I do not think the Pats gave up a #1 pick for a guy who will catch 50 balls.  I think he will shave passes from everyone and may emerge as the PAts #1 receiver or the team's #1 offensive threat behind a healthy Gronk.  

In other words for the 8 games Gronk is healthy, the Pats will terrorize the NFL.  

12 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

It sure does seem like Belichick is loading up for this year, isn't he?

We are using only limited info and going by this- the draft and trade actions of Belichick, it looks exactly like this is the year they splurge and go for it.  Brady had, maybe, his best season since 2010; he looked great.  But he's also 83 years old (approximately) .  And when that bottom falls out its going to free-fall.  Belichick has stated he does not want to coach as long as Marv Levy.  But also, people stated that Belichick was far more relaxed this season than in other playoff runs and he seems to be enjoying everything more.  Also, there HAS TO BE something about winning five ... fucking Superbowls that makes you think, "Maybe I have got this skill-set maxed out."  

But he loves football and football players.  I cannot imagine him doing anything else and I think he wants to be involved with the sport for as long as possible.  And none of these moves would be considered outrageous or irreparable in 2 seasons.  And its possible that keeping Jimmy G is an extension of that. 

But factor in this.  Out of everyone on the Pats RIGHT NOW who would feel BEST about keeping Jimmy G? Why, the next head coach for the NE Patriots... their O coordinator Josh McDaniels, of course...

12 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'm glad they didn't have to get into the offensive line market. Not like they ever have, but I think of my team needing to court the likes of Matt Kalil and I shiver.

The Pats gelled their O-Line over the last two seasons and while guys like Tre Mason still give us some heart-burn, we do not need to worry about the Tackles as Solder and Cannon are very solid.  

12 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I'm glad for Martellus Bennett. I sincerely wish him success. He seems interesting and original and creative. The more I hear from him, the more I like, usually the opposite of how it goes with NFL players.

Bennett had the perfect set-up and I'm thrilled for the guy.  Great guy, won a SB and now got signed by another team where he can provide immediate value and can make a deep playoff run before Mike McCarthy fucks them all over.  

Everything considered, we have to feel great for the Pats even if the stars SEEM to be aligning for them to make one last run at that always elusive sixth Superbowl... 

Edited by Rockroi

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 Yeah, you guys are suffering from an embarrassment of riches here. If Gronk stays healthy, this could be 2007 all over again.

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2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Yeah, you guys are suffering from an embarrassment of riches here. If Gronk stays healthy, this could be 2007 all over again.

Thoughts and prayers please... 

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On second thoughts, save the thoughts and prayers for everyone else...

From the article:

Quote

 

This is shades of 2007, when the Patriots traded for receivers Randy Moss and Wes Welker, paid big in free agency for linebacker Adalius Thomas, and added some other notable parts, such as receiver Donte Stallworth. That was the year the Patriots were coming off a 2006 season in which Brady was throwing to a piece-it-together receiving corps, and it was almost as if Belichick said: Let’s make sure that doesn’t happen again!

He has attacked this offseason with similar fury as the page has officially been turned from the euphoria of Super Bowl LI to the 2017 season, a year in which some around the club predict Belichick will be especially hard on the team so complacency doesn’t set in.

 

With all that said, these things do not always work out so well.  Free agents don't work out like they should (ie: Adallius Thomas) and players do not gel; there are also injuries which can simply deep-six a season.  

But standing where the pats are right now, as a fan, I am pretty pleased.  

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2 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

Thoughts and prayers please... 

I wonder how much of all this Free Agency activity might have been spurred by the Superb Owl close call. It kind of looks like Hoodie is crafting a defensive rebuild that is designed to stop that sort of team. Even Cooks could be seen as the sort of quick strike threat that would help keep up with that offense.

Despite my Pats hate I would not wish injury on Gronk (or any player for that matter). That said, I would of course love to see someone (anyone) knock off this apparent juggernaut.   

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Rockroi said:

On second thoughts, save the thoughts and prayers for everyone else...

From the article:

With all that said, these things do not always work out so well.  Free agents don't work out like they should (ie: Adallius Thomas) and players do not gel; there are also injuries which can simply deep-six a season.  

But standing where the pats are right now, as a fan, I am pretty pleased.  

Yeah, 2007 was the first thing that came to mind for me after reading your recap. Brady, Edelmen, Cooks, Gronkowski, Hogan, Blount, Lewis, and White. If that group stays healthy they will be unstoppable. 

 If they hold onto Hightower and Butler, this #1 defense gets better as well. Fuck the rest of the league right in the face. Hoodie is running circles around every other front office.

Edited by Manhole Eunuchsbane

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I really don't understand how the Saints traded Cooks for what they did, when Butler was rumored to be a possible part of the deal. What does Kraft and Belichick have on the Saints owners? This deal should be proof the NFL and all it's owners love the Patriots. :D 

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