Lucius Lovejoy

Endgame roles for all major characters (TV only)

26 posts in this topic

15 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

It's outline for certain someone who is author of this baby but it sounds pretty bad. Likely for us, he has departed from of these points by now.

Like George or D&D care that much about who is pissed or not. People were pissed after Ned's death, Red Wedding and will continue to be. This is GoT/ASoIaF. If it makes sense, George is capable of doing anything he wants but far poignant would be letting them live throught this mess, being even more miserable. D&D they like to do things for shocking value.

For those fans who understand Jon - we know the Iron Throne is not a good thing and he wouldn't view this way either. There is this presuamption that whoever wins the game, is getting cookie or cake at the end. Whoever is up there (if there is any throne at all) is gonna be miserable getting together devasted lands after the war. I mean George himself stated that LOTR and that ending is something he aspire to do with ASoIaF, so that would mean many character live but suffer as the result of things they went through. some of them might never be the same. I can see that with Arya, Bran, Jon, Dany and others.

R+L=J was always for his personal struggle first and foremost, after all these books are about people in the midst of war, politiics, schemes and how it impact them, learning from it and go on. At least the main characters, some other died. Prophecy (he plays a par), personal struggle and maybe if these leaks are true might even for the iron throne but it ain't a victory. So jon on the iron throne is not really a cheesy fanservice but rather tough and unpleasant responsibility.

What percentage of the audience do you think is likely to interpret such ending as miserable tragedy?  

 I know that Lotr had a bittersweet ending, but I didn't exactly start crying for Aragorn who was to rebuild and entire war ridden kingdom and go on to fight Harad for decades. And I didn't exactly cry for Sam either who was although shaken by Frodo's passing to Valinor, set down to rebuilt Hobbition and start a family and see his children grow up and rise, and even though they both lost and suffered Legolas and Gimli remained friends.

I don't see people (or myself) breaking down in tears if the end is about anybody taking the Iron throne and attempting to rebuild the kingdoms in any political order.  Because even though it's not an easy task and the kingdoms bled in the Great War, it's a new hope, a new start, and ultimately sweet tops the bitter part. People (or myself) won't cry for Arya's season 1 innocence or Sanaa's season 1 dreams and hopes if they see them alive (reunited?) and healthy enough to have a chance for a new start. Yes they will never be the same, and yes horrible things happened to them, but as long as they are alive, there's a prospect for a happier future and that's not a tragic ending. So no, in my opinion, characters staying alive at the end of the series is not tragic. What happened to them along the way was often tragic but a chance for a new start is always a sweet ending. The bitter part is all the characters who died and are yet to die until the tragic things are over and there's light at the end of the tunnel. Bittersweet is not borderline depressing and tragic. 

 

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15 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

But there will be virtually no "secondary" characters in the endings. Those who survive s8 will be key players also in the books.

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/It-Official-Game-Thrones-Spoil-Ending-George-R-R-Martin-Books-70847.html

Luckily, we’ve been talking about this with George [R.R. Martin] for a long time... and we know where things are heading. So, we’ll eventually meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going. There might be a few deviations along the route, but we’re heading towards the same destination.

The deviations are those that you mention, like Hodor's...but the ending, s8's last episodes are the same- More than just spirit.

Jorah, Jaime, Tormund, Brienne are all secondary characters etc. There will be someone at the end and some of them for sure.

I've seen various interviews, pretty much it follows George but even George probably doesn't knw endings for some characters. Like detailed. Few deviations looks like a lot by looks of it. Context of certain will be different, some character who are important in the books are not even on the show or dead.

4 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

What percentage of the audience do you think is likely to interpret such ending as miserable tragedy?  

 I know that Lotr had a bittersweet ending, but I didn't exactly start crying for Aragorn who was to rebuild and entire war ridden kingdom and go on to fight Harad for decades. And I didn't exactly cry for Sam either who was although shaken by Frodo's passing to Valinor, set down to rebuilt Hobbition and start a family and see his children grow up and rise, and even though they both lost and suffered Legolas and Gimli remained friends.

I don't see people (or myself) breaking down in tears if the end is about anybody taking the Iron throne and attempting to rebuild the kingdoms in any political order.  Because even though it's not an easy task and the kingdoms bled in the Great War, it's a new hope, a new start, and ultimately sweet tops the bitter part. People (or myself) won't cry for Arya's season 1 innocence or Sanaa's season 1 dreams and hopes if they see them alive (reunited?) and healthy enough to have a chance for a new start. Yes they will never be the same, and yes horrible things happened to them, but as long as they are alive, there's a prospect for a happier future and that's not a tragic ending. So no, in my opinion, characters staying alive at the end of the series is not tragic. What happened to them along the way was often tragic but a chance for a new start is always a sweet ending. The bitter part is all the characters who died and are yet to die until the tragic things are over and there's light at the end of the tunnel. Bittersweet is not borderline depressing and tragic. 

 

George has talked about bittersweet ending, which goes well with what LOTR did. We're watching characters grow, learn and move on fro mthose tragic things. After all these things Westeros or people deserves some sort of hope at the end. It would be rather depressing if not. To kill people just for the sake of killing them. Somebody has to pick up the pieces of the broken Westerosi society and bring them tothe better future because while they are alive at the end, they still need to do things after the war. While show might exlude this but George won't. Some sort of Epilogue for our characters because why else Jon or Dany learned not only to lead but to rule? They have to put it to use, didn't they?

I talk to some people about ending because we're nearing towards it. People do have a different ideas of what is tragic or not. I saw some people interpretating as tragic and others just doesn't see this as that tragic. For many Jon and Dany living, ruling ad having kids is not bittersweet or tragic enough. For me it depends on circumstances because living in the post-White Walkers era ain't a dreamland. People literally broken in spirits, many friends and loved ones dead, and tons of responsibilities on their shoulders. Does this sound to you as fanservice or too happy? To me it looks very LOTR-ish or what would George do.

 

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Jorah, Jaime, Tormund, Brienne are all secondary characters etc. There will be someone at the end and some of them for sure.

I've seen various interviews, pretty much it follows George but even George probably doesn't knw endings for some characters. Like detailed. Few deviations looks like a lot by looks of it. Context of certain will be different, some character who are important in the books are not even on the show or dead.

My point is that even if they are secondary characters, their roles could be very mportant if they live beyond s7: that means they had a role to play, possible as important as the ones of the big characters, or vital in the development of the ending of the series.

Yes, he probably doesn't know the ending of all his characters but I bet that those who are not main ones and will live beyonf s7, like, let's say, possibly Jorah or Jaime, etc. have an ending that Martin knows and he told the showrunners about it.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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3 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Jorah, Jaime, Tormund, Brienne are all secondary characters etc. There will be someone at the end and some of them for sure.

I've seen various interviews, pretty much it follows George but even George probably doesn't knw endings for some characters. Like detailed. Few deviations looks like a lot by looks of it. Context of certain will be different, some character who are important in the books are not even on the show or dead.

George has talked about bittersweet ending, which goes well with what LOTR did. We're watching characters grow, learn and move on fro mthose tragic things. After all these things Westeros or people deserves some sort of hope at the end. It would be rather depressing if not. To kill people just for the sake of killing them. Somebody has to pick up the pieces of the broken Westerosi society and bring them tothe better future because while they are alive at the end, they still need to do things after the war. While show might exlude this but George won't. Some sort of Epilogue for our characters because why else Jon or Dany learned not only to lead but to rule? They have to put it to use, didn't they?

I talk to some people about ending because we're nearing towards it. People do have a different ideas of what is tragic or not. I saw some people interpretating as tragic and others just doesn't see this as that tragic. For many Jon and Dany living, ruling ad having kids is not bittersweet or tragic enough. For me it depends on circumstances because living in the post-White Walkers era ain't a dreamland. People literally broken in spirits, many friends and loved ones dead, and tons of responsibilities on their shoulders. Does this sound to you as fanservice or too happy? To me it looks very LOTR-ish or what would George do.

 

The story is already far, far beyond LOTR in terms of tragedy, even if not one single other major character dies, which is very unlikely.  

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4 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

 

George has talked about bittersweet ending, which goes well with what LOTR did. We're watching characters grow, learn and move on fro mthose tragic things. After all these things Westeros or people deserves some sort of hope at the end. It would be rather depressing if not. To kill people just for the sake of killing them. Somebody has to pick up the pieces of the broken Westerosi society and bring them tothe better future because while they are alive at the end, they still need to do things after the war. While show might exlude this but George won't. Some sort of Epilogue for our characters because why else Jon or Dany learned not only to lead but to rule? They have to put it to use, didn't they?

I talk to some people about ending because we're nearing towards it. People do have a different ideas of what is tragic or not. I saw some people interpretating as tragic and others just doesn't see this as that tragic. For many Jon and Dany living, ruling ad having kids is not bittersweet or tragic enough. For me it depends on circumstances because living in the post-White Walkers era ain't a dreamland. People literally broken in spirits, many friends and loved ones dead, and tons of responsibilities on their shoulders. Does this sound to you as fanservice or too happy? To me it looks very LOTR-ish or what would George do.

 

Yes, that's what I said, life moves on, people rebuild their homes and families and countries and civilizations. And no, I don't think the show will end it in an apocalyptic note, they will do an epilogue too - in my opinion. 

We seem to be just talking past each other. I agree that George would go for something Lotr-ish (if he ever finished the books, which I highly doubt he will), as he so often said, but then I don't think Lotr had a sad ending. Call it high tolerance level or being a heartless monster, but I think Lotr had a pretty happy ending all things considered. Maybe let's establish again that I was talking about the show at beginning, the show is the one to get excessive when it comes to fan service. 

Speaking of Lotr and tragedy, Lotr is a fairy tale (married to a nature documentary). Asoiaf is realistic, raw, graphic and gory and we are in the heads of the characters. Of course asoiaf is going to come off as more tragic. 

 

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It's a question of who's death would serve the story in any way, or what makes sense for the character's based off of what they've done and what kind of character they are. Green - Survives, Red - Dies, Blue - Unsure

  1. Jon Snow = Dies fighting the WWs or survives and rules the North and/or the Seven Kingdoms.
  2. Daenerys = Dies in fight with WWs or Survives and rules the Seven Kingdoms. I lean more towards her dying north of the wall as they foreshadowed it all the way back in Season 2 when she was in the house of the undying and got to see Drogo and her son north of the wall.
  3. Tyrion = Survives. I just don't see any possible reason to kill off Tyrion after everything he has been through. I believe he'll go on to prove his father and everyone wrong and become one of the most prominent Lannisters in history. Rightfully getting & ruling Casterly Rock against his father's wishes.
  4. Sansa = Sansa isn't a warrior so I don't see her dying.
  5. Arya = Arya would be in green as well if she wasn't a warrior, but she is so it's up in the air whether she'll survive the series.
  6. Gendry = Will be the new head of House Baratheon and will probably be LP of the Stormlands.
  7. Jaime = Might die after killing Cersei, against the WWs, or he'll survive and rejoin the Kingsguard, possibly under Daenerys or Jon Snow if one takes over. Fitting that Jaime would begin his KG service under Aerys and end it under Aerys' daughter or grandson.
  8. Cersei = Is killed by Jaime after she decides to try and burn Kings Landing to the ground.
  9. Davos = Could die against the WWs but I see him surviving 
  10. Littlefinger = You could say that LF will finally get his, but will he? The man may have a weakness in Sansa but I feel like it'd be naive and too cliche for LF to get taken. I believe LF will survive in the books and that may be part of George's "bittersweet" ending. They defeat the WWs and save Westeros from them but a lot of characters we really like will die to make this happen, but rhe man who started it all will live on and never get the justice he desevered like so many people in real life history have. Joseph Stalin, Christopher Columbus, etc all got to live out their lives and never paid for their crimes, and those are people and actions we actually know about. Not many know what LF truly did.
  11. Varys = Isn't a fighter and his death wouldn't really have any impact I expect the spider to survive the series.
  12. Theon = Theon is a wild card. He will most likely out live his sister and may end up ruling the Iron Isles as he is a changed and much better man then he was at the beginning of the series.
  13. Yara = I don't see Yara surviving the series to be honest.
  14. Brienne = Survives, no reason to die.
  15. Podrick = Podrick's has been a pretty minor character
  16. Bronn = I see him surviving the to finally get that castle and wife.
  17. Sam Tarly = He has an important part to play in the war to come, but he's not a fighting so I dn't see him dying.
  18. Gilly = Lives.
  19. The Hound = Could die fighting WWs but it's a 50/50 chance.
  20. Beric = Dies fighting WWs and dies for good
  21. Thoros = Could die but if you want to keep a Priest of Rhllor alive, it'd be him.
  22. Melisandre = She dies. No reason to keep her around after bringing back Jon Snow.
  23. Jorah Mormont = I doubt Jorah will find a cure for greyscale. I feel like he'll try but will ultimately decide to return to Daenerys and will die fighting the WWs
  24. Ellaria & Sand Snakes = *Sigh* do I even need to explain?
  25. Euron Greyjoy = Dies against Daenerys or Theon. If Euron was actually a cool character in the show I'd argue for him sticking around but nope get him out of here unless he suddenly shows up with the dragon horn this upcoming season. Can't believe they didn't give him the Dragon horn in the show that could of given him an edge over Daenerys.

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