Lucius Lovejoy

Endgame roles for all major characters (TV only)

172 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

Strong argument, though unfortunately Nymeria isn't shown on the show or even mentioned gathering her wolfpack.  I'm torn between Arya being frozen dead holding needle in the end, or being queen.  I can see her time with the FM being to learn service, and that this "lone wolf" who knows what it is to be hungry and hunted will become a servant queen for the people in the rebuilding of Westeros following the war for dawn.  I like Queen because it is an unexpected turn, especially after it was supposed to be Sansa's fate.

About Nymeria and her pack... ;) 

Spoiler

S7. Perhaps they filmed with wolves this year.  + Arya will get involved in the role of ruling next season too. 

I like your Queen prediction in light of that. The irony of Varys speech to Kevan where George slips in Arya's many experiences is very interesting. D&D said they would eventually come to a similar ending George planned for the books - they are just going down different roads to get there. 

Arya's exit from the FM is purely D&D's creation. By gutting other minor storylines it messes a lot of things up later down the line. In the next book I think George is planning for Jeyne Poole and Arya to come face to face in Braavos. 

 

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3 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

About Nymeria and her pack... ;) 

  Reveal hidden contents

S7. Perhaps they filmed with wolves this year.  + Arya will get involved in the role of ruling next season too. 

I like your Queen prediction in light of that. The irony of Varys speech to Kevan where George slips in Arya's many experiences is very interesting. D&D said they would eventually come to a similar ending George planned for the books - they are just going down different roads to get there. 

Arya's exit from the FM is purely D&D's creation. By gutting other minor storylines it messes a lot of things up later down the line. In the next book I think George is planning for Jeyne Poole and Arya to come face to face in Braavos. 

 

I like the idea of Gendry and Arya as the endgame rulers. When it comes to show, totally out of blue but it would be nice. The thing is show really lack of Arya and Queen connection is evident and at this point Arya traveling far West, rebuild home is much more realistic than ruling. You need a bit of foreshadowing on the show unlike the books.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Arya's exit from the FM is purely D&D's creation. By gutting other minor storylines it messes a lot of things up later down the line. In the next book I think George is planning for Jeyne Poole and Arya to come face to face in Braavos. 

I don't think it can be disputed that Book Arya will return to Westeros. The mode of Arya's exit from the FM--winning her freedom by besting the person sent to kill her as punishment for balking at an assignment--is D&D's creation. The fact of her exit from the FM and subsequent return to Westeros is not. The show is well into TWOW territory, maybe even ADOS territory, now. (GRRM said that Tyrion and Dany would meet "after a fashion" in TWOW, while Show Tyrion is already Show Dany's trusted right hand.)

It's clear that at some point Book Arya comes back to Westeros, just as Book Jon becomes KITN, Book Bran leaves the cave, Book Dany begins her invasion of Westeros, Book Sansa leaves the Vale, Book Stannis burns Book Shireen, etc. These things haven't happened in the books yet, but they will.

GRRM may take his sweet time getting Arya back to Westeros, but D&D have a story to tell in a limited amount of time and they have to get on with it.

3 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I like the idea of Gendry and Arya as the endgame rulers. When it comes to show, totally out of blue but it would be nice. The thing is show really lack of Arya and Queen connection is evident and at this point Arya traveling far West, rebuild home is much more realistic than ruling. You need a bit of foreshadowing on the show unlike the books.

Yeah, the whole "west of Westeros" thing jumped out at me. Seemed like a random bit of dialogue unless that comes into play later.

I tend to doubt the Arya as queen theories for two other reasons based on Season 7 spoilers:

Spoiler

Season 7 ends with Arya carrying out Sansa's orders and acknowledging her as Lady of Winterfell, saying that she is just Sansa's sword. That sounds a lot like an acknowledgment of submission to me. 

Arya also realizes in Season 7 that Nymeria is no longer her pet, and that she can't be controlled, so Arya isn't going to be queen of a wolf pack anytime soon, particularly since TV Arya doesn't warg.

As the show progresses, it's becoming clearer and clearer which fan theories are confirmed, and which are just pipe dreams. The show is fairly easy to "read," as it lacks the books' subtleties and D&D have either boiled down or stripped away a lot of the nuanced characterization from the books. Even as of the end of Season 6, we already know a lot about how the books will shake out.

Book Tyrion will never become a villain, and he will never get greyscale. Book Jon's parentage will not remain a secret. Book Arya will not remain with the FM. Book Dany will never go mad. Book Sansa will never be QITN as long as Jon is alive. Book Bran will leave the cave and return south. Book Stannis will die. Book Aegon and Arianne will die or be irrelevant to the endgame. The Book Tyrells will be wiped out. And so on.

Thanks to Season 7 spoilers, we know even more about how the books will shake out:

Spoiler

Jon and Dany will not only end up on the same side, but they will fall in love. Tyrion will never get his own dragon. Arya and Sansa will resolve their differences. Littlefinger will die. Etc. etc. 

I think given the show that any endgame with anyone other than Jon and/or Dany on the throne is very unlikely. The show just hasn't built up anyone else as ruler material. 

Anyway, here are my predictions:

Jon: Iron Throne. 

Dany: Dead in childbirth giving birth to Jon's heir.

Tyrion: Tossup between him and Davos for Jon's Hand. If he isn't Hand, he'll have a winery.

Arya: Heads west of Westeros, maybe with Gendry (still rowing, har!) or the Hound.

Sansa/Bran: Whoever survives of the two will get Winterfell.

Everyone else: who knows? I don't think D&D even know where a lot of the secondary characters like Pod and Bronn end up in the books, so they're going to make a lot of stuff up and probably make sure that their faves survive.

Edited by Newstar

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Posted (edited)

Anyone else noticed how the new Jon kinda looks like Drogo now?

Wonder how that's gonna figure into things, if the leaks are to be believed...

Edited by Pink Fat Rast

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

I don't think it can be disputed that Book Arya will return to Westeros. The mode of Arya's exit from the FM--winning her freedom by besting the person sent to kill her as punishment for balking at an assignment--is D&D's creation. The fact of her exit from the FM and subsequent return to Westeros is not. The show is well into TWOW territory, maybe even ADOS territory, now. (GRRM said that Tyrion and Dany would meet "after a fashion" in TWOW, while Show Tyrion is already Show Dany's trusted right hand.)

It's clear that at some point Book Arya comes back to Westeros, just as Book Jon becomes KITN, Book Bran leaves the cave, Book Dany begins her invasion of Westeros, Book Sansa leaves the Vale, Book Stannis burns Book Shireen, etc. These things haven't happened in the books yet, but they will.

GRRM may take his sweet time getting Arya back to Westeros, but D&D have a story to tell in a limited amount of time and they have to get on with it.

Yeah, the whole "west of Westeros" thing jumped out at me. Seemed like a random bit of dialogue unless that comes into play later.

I tend to doubt the Arya as queen theories for two other reasons based on Season 7 spoilers:

  Hide contents

Season 7 ends with Arya carrying out Sansa's orders and acknowledging her as Lady of Winterfell, saying that she is just Sansa's sword. That sounds a lot like an acknowledgment of submission to me. 

Arya also realizes in Season 7 that Nymeria is no longer her pet, and that she can't be controlled, so Arya isn't going to be queen of a wolf pack anytime soon, particularly since TV Arya doesn't warg.

As the show progresses, it's becoming clearer and clearer which fan theories are confirmed, and which are just pipe dreams. The show is fairly easy to "read," as it lacks the books' subtleties and D&D have either boiled down or stripped away a lot of the nuanced characterization from the books. Even as of the end of Season 6, we already know a lot about how the books will shake out.

Book Tyrion will never become a villain, and he will never get greyscale. Book Jon's parentage will not remain a secret. Book Arya will not remain with the FM. Book Dany will never go mad. Book Sansa will never be QITN as long as Jon is alive. Book Bran will leave the cave and return south. Book Stannis will die. Book Aegon and Arianne will die or be irrelevant to the endgame. The Book Tyrells will be wiped out. And so on.

Thanks to Season 7 spoilers, we know even more about how the books will shake out:

  Reveal hidden contents

Jon and Dany will not only end up on the same side, but they will fall in love. Tyrion will never get his own dragon. Arya and Sansa will resolve their differences. Littlefinger will die. Etc. etc. 

I think given the show that any endgame with anyone other than Jon and/or Dany on the throne is very unlikely. The show just hasn't built up anyone else as ruler material. 

Anyway, here are my predictions:

Jon: Iron Throne. 

Dany: Dead in childbirth giving birth to Jon's heir.

Tyrion: Tossup between him and Davos for Jon's Hand. If he isn't Hand, he'll have a winery.

Arya: Heads west of Westeros, maybe with Gendry (still rowing, har!) or the Hound.

Sansa/Bran: Whoever survives of the two will get Winterfell.

Everyone else: who knows? I don't think D&D even know where a lot of the secondary characters like Pod and Bronn end up in the books, so they're going to make a lot of stuff up and probably make sure that their faves survive.

Personally, I think it is premature to write off Arya's importance to the end of the story based on Season 7 "leaks".  Especially that whole bit about :

Spoiler

Arya quickly seeing Nymeria and parting ways. The actress had lots of filming this year and it looks like the show even went to extra time/expense to do some Canada/wolf filming. The leaks don't match up with this.

 

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3 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

Personally, I think it is premature to write off Arya's importance to the end of the story based on Season 7 "leaks".  Especially that whole bit about :

  Reveal hidden contents

Arya quickly seeing Nymeria and parting ways. The actress had lots of filming this year and it looks like the show even went to extra time/expense to do some Canada/wolf filming. The leaks don't match up with this.

 

It's kind of Newstar's thing to diminish and put down Arya every chance she gets. But you're right about the spoiler stuff you mentioned.  ;)

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The leaks, even if they are true, have only some vague points they cover. They don't cover the whole plot of season 7. They cover only some points in the story. There are 7 hours of television and a lot te reveal that has not been spoiled. Much more than it is spoiled. 

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2 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

The leaks, even if they are true, have only some vague points they cover. They don't cover the whole plot of season 7. They cover only some points in the story. There are 7 hours of television and a lot te reveal that has not been spoiled. Much more than it is spoiled. 

Well I'm pretty sure those 7 episodes are gonna be longer as well so the overall runtime of the season will probably match 10 episodes, they'll just be condensed into less episodes.

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3 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Anyone else noticed how the new Jon kinda looks like Drogo now?

Wonder how that's gonna figure into things, if the leaks are to be believed...

No not really, more like Ned.

17 hours ago, Newstar said:

Yeah, the whole "west of Westeros" thing jumped out at me. Seemed like a random bit of dialogue unless that comes into play later.

I tend to doubt the Arya as queen theories for two other reasons based on Season 7 spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Season 7 ends with Arya carrying out Sansa's orders and acknowledging her as Lady of Winterfell, saying that she is just Sansa's sword. That sounds a lot like an acknowledgment of submission to me. 

Arya also realizes in Season 7 that Nymeria is no longer her pet, and that she can't be controlled, so Arya isn't going to be queen of a wolf pack anytime soon, particularly since TV Arya doesn't warg.

As the show progresses, it's becoming clearer and clearer which fan theories are confirmed, and which are just pipe dreams. The show is fairly easy to "read," as it lacks the books' subtleties and D&D have either boiled down or stripped away a lot of the nuanced characterization from the books. Even as of the end of Season 6, we already know a lot about how the books will shake out.

Book Tyrion will never become a villain, and he will never get greyscale. Book Jon's parentage will not remain a secret. Book Arya will not remain with the FM. Book Dany will never go mad. Book Sansa will never be QITN as long as Jon is alive. Book Bran will leave the cave and return south. Book Stannis will die. Book Aegon and Arianne will die or be irrelevant to the endgame. The Book Tyrells will be wiped out. And so on.

Thanks to Season 7 spoilers, we know even more about how the books will shake out:

This is what I dislike.

Arya to be Sansa's executioner and submissive. I mean, judging by the way D&D are looking at Sansa. First Jon and now Arya and it's not a good idea. To them Sansa,Cersei most of all, then Dany are priorities it seems. After Braavos arc, she deserves better. I haven't seen any foreshadowing on the show for her to be Queen. Death or simply exploring far west country might be a good bet.

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9 hours ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Well I'm pretty sure those 7 episodes are gonna be longer as well so the overall runtime of the season will probably match 10 episodes, they'll just be condensed into less episodes.

Air time of each episode was said to be very similar to current. Amount of content is the same, which is why I think it will be rushed at some points.

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

No not really, more like Ned.

This is what I dislike.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Arya to be Sansa's executioner and submissive. I mean, judging by the way D&D are looking at Sansa. First Jon and now Arya and it's not a good idea. To them Sansa,Cersei most of all, then Dany are priorities it seems. After Braavos arc, she deserves better. I haven't seen any foreshadowing on the show for her to be Queen. Death or simply exploring far west country might be a good bet.

 

Yes, Jon is as much as a Ned clone at this point as he could possibly be in costuming and hairstyle. If Jon loses the shirt, daubs blue paint on his shoulders and chest, grows out his beard and starts putting clips in his beard hair, then we can talk about his resemblance to Drogo.

On Arya:

Spoiler

GRRM have reduced Arya to the "muscle" of the Stark family; she spars with Brienne and tells Sansa that she's just Sansa's sword. As long as Sansa lives in the show, Arya will be subordinate to her, and not only does Sansa survive Season 7 according to the leaks, but D&D have all but admitted that Sansa is going to survive the series. (At a recent panel, they joked that they were fighting over who would get to write the Season 8 episode where Sansa died, which is a clear tell that Sansa is not going to get killed off in Season 8.)

If you're upset about Sansa overshadowing Arya, I don't think that's going to stop anytime soon.

There's no queen foreshadowing for Arya on the show. D&D have been all about Arya as murderous little badass, with a side of "west of Westeros." At this point, with only 13 episodes left, there's something to be read into those writing decisions. D&D are not subtle when it comes to this sort of thing (see the Jon scenes where the writing has been all but screaming KING KING KING KING). If there's nothing in the show suggesting Arya will be queen, Arya won't be queen. It's as simple as that.

I also tend to think the same thing about Tyrion ending up as king or endgame SanSan: there's just no support for those outcomes in the show at all.

 

On 4/8/2017 at 0:10 PM, Bear Claw said:

Personally, I think it is premature to write off Arya's importance to the end of the story based on Season 7 "leaks".  Especially that whole bit about :

  Hide contents

Arya quickly seeing Nymeria and parting ways. The actress had lots of filming this year and it looks like the show even went to extra time/expense to do some Canada/wolf filming. The leaks don't match up with this.

 

I think we're beyond to referring to the leaks as "leaks." They've been right about everything. They are legit. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't true.

More specifically about your suggestion that filming information contradicts the leaks:

Spoiler

 

The leaks match up with the filming information very nicely.

Lads1 says that Arya has a single scene with Nymeria. One scene. It sounds uncomplicated enough, so why all the filming with Maisie? Well, usually, the wolves are filmed separately and spliced into scenes with the actors with CGI modifications, which means that the actors are nowhere near the wolves. This is done for pretty obvious reasons: safety and the fact that the wolves are located in Canada and cannot be moved. 

However, the show has deviated from this procedure before. In Season 3, Gwendoline Christie filmed with Bart the Bear in Los Angeles at the same time. An electrical fence was used to protect Gwendoline and was erased in post-production. However, Gwendoline was required to travel to LA for filming.

This year, Maisie traveled to Canada for wolf filming. Why? Because they decided this time to have Maisie film in the same landscape as the "Nymeria" wolf, just like they did with Gwendoline and the bear in Season 3.

If you'll recall, the bear scene lasted under five minutes. I wouldn't read anything into the duration of Maisie's stay in Canada. 

 

On 4/8/2017 at 4:46 PM, Dragonsbone said:

The leaks, even if they are true, have only some vague points they cover. They don't cover the whole plot of season 7. 

The Season 7 leaks have provided a complete summary of every major plot point this season, often on an episode by episode basis. The whole plot of Season 7 is in fact covered, and it's pretty easy to find on /Freefolk if you look.

 

Edited by Newstar

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Jon's face with the ponytail haircut and the beard and grim aggressive face expression (in some scenes/shots like the "parlay") just gives off a Drogo vibe to me, but yeah it's just something I've found amusing 

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19 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Air time of each episode was said to be very similar to current. Amount of content is the same, which is why I think it will be rushed at some points.

Well that's disappointing...

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3 hours ago, Pink Fat Rast said:

Jon's face with the ponytail haircut and the beard and grim aggressive face expression (in some scenes/shots like the "parlay") just gives off a Drogo vibe to me, but yeah it's just something I've found amusing 

You mean Jon's mopey, moody face. He's rarely agressive, like Ned ... sometimes he can get angry, and his bear is not as long as Drogo or hairstyle. Nothing really reminds me of Drogo with Jon.

4 hours ago, Newstar said:

Yes, Jon is as much as a Ned clone at this point as he could possibly be in costuming and hairstyle. If Jon loses the shirt, daubs blue paint on his shoulders and chest, grows out his beard and starts putting clips in his beard hair, then we can talk about his resemblance to Drogo.

On Arya:

  Reveal hidden contents

GRRM have reduced Arya to the "muscle" of the Stark family; she spars with Brienne and tells Sansa that she's just Sansa's sword. As long as Sansa lives in the show, Arya will be subordinate to her, and not only does Sansa survive Season 7 according to the leaks, but D&D have all but admitted that Sansa is going to survive the series. (At a recent panel, they joked that they were fighting over who would get to write the Season 8 episode where Sansa died, which is a clear tell that Sansa is not going to get killed off in Season 8.)

If you're upset about Sansa overshadowing Arya, I don't think that's going to stop anytime soon.

There's no queen foreshadowing for Arya on the show. D&D have been all about Arya as murderous little badass, with a side of "west of Westeros." At this point, with only 13 episodes left, there's something to be read into those writing decisions. D&D are not subtle when it comes to this sort of thing (see the Jon scenes where the writing has been all but screaming KING KING KING KING). If there's nothing in the show suggesting Arya will be queen, Arya won't be queen. It's as simple as that.

I also tend to think the same thing about Tyrion ending up as king or endgame SanSan: there's just no support for those outcomes in the show at all.

They played in the part of Jon looking like Ned, Sansa like Catelyn. Sort of nostalgia and also showing Jon is most like Ned, Sansa is still a lot like Catelyn. Her distrust towards Jon, Jon's overprotectiveness towards everybody.

Tyrion as a King, SanSan at this point seems unlikely, because as we saw with Shireen, Olly, Jon's rebirth with Mel when they foreshadow something...it's very clear. What I can see is either Jon reluctantly taking the throne, Dany getting the throne and realizing is not worth it, or simply dividing Seven Kingdoms into independent places ... but that is a distant third option. I believe someone will be ruling and rebuild Westeros into their new age.

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4 hours ago, Newstar said:

 

The Season 7 leaks have provided a complete summary of every major plot point this season, often on an episode by episode basis. The whole plot of Season 7 is in fact covered, and it's pretty easy to find on /Freefolk if you look.

 

The information on freefolk also contain the "leaks" of other sources then lads. But until now, only the leaks of lads have been proven right by pictures of the set. The rest is unproven. And lads only had views on some storyboards as he/she said it. He or she did not have insight on the scripts. Therefore his or her information are incomplete. Also he or she does not give enough information, only some points. And it also gives us only the storyline of Jon and Danny and to some degree Cercei and Bran. But for the latter two, a very vague one. The rest that you may have seen on freefolk, is based on many so called "leakers", non of them proven right until today. 

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1 hour ago, Dragonsbone said:

The information on freefolk also contain the "leaks" of other sources then lads. But until now, only the leaks of lads have been proven right by pictures of the set. The rest is unproven. And lads only had views on some storyboards as he/she said it. He or she did not have insight on the scripts. Therefore his or her information are incomplete. Also he or she does not give enough information, only some points. And it also gives us only the storyline of Jon and Danny and to some degree Cercei and Bran. But for the latter two, a very vague one. The rest that you may have seen on freefolk, is based on many so called "leakers", non of them proven right until today. 

I agree with this. There were "accurate" leaks which covered some main points in season 6 as well. But it was just some of the stuff happening in season 6. It didn't mention Walder Frey dying, the Hound coming back, "hold the door" etc.  Not to mention the other 70% of the scenes of that season, or this season, which the leaks haven't covered. 

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Tyrion as a King, SanSan at this point seems unlikely, because as we saw with Shireen, Olly, Jon's rebirth with Mel when they foreshadow something...it's very clear. What I can see is either Jon reluctantly taking the throne, Dany getting the throne and realizing is not worth it, or simply dividing Seven Kingdoms into independent places ... but that is a distant third option. I believe someone will be ruling and rebuild Westeros into their new age.

I agree. D&D are not super subtle with their foreshadowing. If the foreshadowing ain't blatantly and transparently obvious, it ain't there. Shireen's death is a great example, as was R+L=J (Stannis openly musing that Ned would be unlikely to cheat on Catelyn, for one). Robb's downfall was also telegraphed a million miles away, down to the music used for his execution of Lord Karstark being the same as that used for Theon's execution of Rodrik Cassel. 

I think we can write off the Tyrion=Targ theory, since there's been very little foreshadowing for that in the show, and since I doubt D&D would leave that out from the show if it were in the books.

Your mention of Dany getting the throne and realizing it's not worth it is an interesting one, because there are some comments in the show from Daario that seem to be hinting at it, in 6x06 and 6x10 ("You'll get that throne, I hope it brings you happiness" or however he put it), not to mention Dany reaching out to touch the (snow-covered!) throne in the HOTU vision only to turn away.

There hasn't been any hinting at TV Sansa's endgame that I can see, beyond a continuation of her current status as Lady of Winterfell, so it will be interesting to see where the show goes with that. I guess it's not that surprising, since her endgame in the books is a bit of a blank as well as of the end of AFFC. D&D joked at a recent panel that they were fighting over who gets to write Sansa's death scene in Season 8, so if Sansa makes it through Season 7 she'll be presumably safe for Season 8 (since D&D wouldn't joke about it otherwise).

 

8 hours ago, Dragonsbone said:

snip

I think an argument about the accuracy of the leaks belongs in the Spoilers and Speculations thread, so I'll just say that I believe you're very much mistaken and leave it at that.

Edited by Newstar

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3 hours ago, Newstar said:

I agree. D&D are not super subtle with their foreshadowing. If the foreshadowing ain't blatantly and transparently obvious, it ain't there. Shireen's death is a great example, as was R+L=J (Stannis openly musing that Ned would be unlikely to cheat on Catelyn, for one). Robb's downfall was also telegraphed a million miles away, down to the music used for his execution of Lord Karstark being the same as that used for Theon's execution of Rodrik Cassel. 

I don't blame them because you can be only so much subtle, unlike books where you can hide little details but still will find them. But rhen George is a better writer than D&D.

Quote

I think we can write off the Tyrion=Targ theory, since there's been very little foreshadowing for that in the show, and since I doubt D&D would leave that out from the show if it were in the books.

Only think that is off ... is how he visited catacombs in Meereen and dragons reacted the way they did. I think it was based on Tyrion being their friend, not an enemy. But rhen something interesting flew over my head. While I really dislike it. In the leaks it says Jon will pet Drogon. Not Rhaegal. Unless this is a leak trap, then what if Rhaegal still goes to Tyrion? I mean in the books cyvasse and other things hints at Tyrion getting Rhaegal, while Jon is probably more logical given that dragons was named after his father. ideal opportunity for pay off were when Jon will be surroundd by wights and rhagal to save him instead of Benjen. maybe season 8 but Jon can influence the war as a fighter but Tyrion? Dragonriders have been in the history not necesarrily Targaryens. 

What if Dany in her pregancy (technically it shouldn't) or some other way might not be able to ride. I mean dragon is bonded to one rider but looks Tormund, Sandor, Jorah and a wight took a ride. Show is destroying this aspect from the books. Who knows, not fan of it but just interesting thought. 

Quote

Your mention of Dany getting the throne and realizing it's not worth it is an interesting one, because there are some comments in the show from Daario that seem to be hinting at it, in 6x06 and 6x10 ("You'll get that throne, I hope it brings you happiness" or however he put it), not to mention Dany reaching out to touch the (snow-covered!) throne in the HOTU vision only to turn away.

It sems to me Jon and Dany relationship is about continuing Targaryen legacy in some form. Once their kid is alive, then one of the mcould die. I mean at the end it's anybody's game. I always thought Jon might be getting it reluctantly like with Lord Commander and King in the North positions. Him being legitimate is either serving to spark some controversy between Jon and dany or for him to rule. Who knows maybe a bit of both?

With Dany it was always the iron throne won't be worth it. She'll very likely in this scenario lose dragons, friends and maybe even Jon. Gain what she wanted a family and the iron throne but at some price. 

Quote

There hasn't been any hinting at TV Sansa's endgame that I can see, beyond a continuation of her current status as Lady of Winterfell, so it will be interesting to see where the show goes with that. I guess it's not that surprising, since her endgame in the books is a bit of a blank as well as of the end of AFFC. D&D joked at a recent panel that they were fighting over who gets to write Sansa's death scene in Season 8, so if Sansa makes it through Season 7 she'll be presumably safe for Season 8 (since D&D wouldn't joke about it otherwise).

Sansa is the wild card. Bran or Arya are easier to predict.

I've always assumed Sansa will return home and rebuild Winterfell and the North. She always wanted out of the North, to marry her prince, have his babies but in the end she might embrace her Stark identity. I know a lot of people want Bran to rule, which he might do but Sansa seems the best for this. She's also learning to rule next season. Arya for me is a leader, fighter, badass but not a Queen or ruler on the show. Books are a bit different - but then ending should be same fot these characters.

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49 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I don't blame them because you can be only so much subtle, unlike books where you can hide little details but still will find them. But rhen George is a better writer than D&D.

Only think that is off ... is how he visited catacombs in Meereen and dragons reacted the way they did. I think it was based on Tyrion being their friend, not an enemy. 

The problem is that the scene with Tyrion and the dragons was preceded by Tyrion going out of his way to point out that the dragons are sufficiently intelligent that they don't attack people who do not pose a threat. It was almost as if the writers were making sure the audience didn't read anything into the dragons not eating Tyrion.

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It sems to me Jon and Dany relationship is about continuing Targaryen legacy in some form.

I guess it depends on whether or not GRRM wants to continue the Targ legacy in the form of a baby Targ heir, or get rid of the Targs for good. If there is a baby, though, that baby will probably survive and grow up to be the next king or queen.

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1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

I've always assumed Sansa will return home and rebuild Winterfell and the North. She always wanted out of the North, to marry her prince, have his babies but in the end she might embrace her Stark identity. I know a lot of people want Bran to rule, which he might do but Sansa seems the best for this. She's also learning to rule next season. Arya for me is a leader, fighter, badass but not a Queen or ruler on the show. Books are a bit different - but then ending should be same fot these characters.

It's a bit hard to tell what Sansa's arc is supposed to be at this point - in the show, that is.

The pattern so far seems to be:
-starts with naive, idealistic notions of glamorous royalty / court life - is disillusioned by getting to live in a decadent one instead. Executed well.
-adopts the naive notion that a few successful lies and sporting a black swan personality makes her a master manipulator who can crush the Boltons from within - turns out she was completely dependent on LF. Executed.. yeah.

So both times a certain fantasy gets crushed.
Now she's apparently living out the fantasy of being a worshipped lady commanding armies to victory - and she thinks she may have some control over LF now that he revealed his cards / apologized to her or something.

So maybe that's another "genre fantasy" that'll get crushed and finally turn her into a pragmatist or someone seeking power that isn't dependent on armies or (male) protectors (except that's also Arya's thing, in a different form);
or, she's already a cynical pragmatist?


Started out as a bit of an asshole, but stopped being asshole at the end of S1 and hasn't been since.
Was also rather morally callous when she had no problem with Joffrey cutting Mycah (kind of comparable to Daenerys in relation to Drogo maybe) - now is morally "hardened", and maybe even has a reckless solipsistic streak when it comes to getting her justice?


So I'm not sure what really "should" happen next or at the end - though I know that sentencing LF to death over some bullshite is one of the things that shouldn't :D

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