Other Direwolves

[Pray Harder]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I can't seem to find anything about it...

Why haven't we seen ANY other direwolves in the series besides the Stark wolves? We've been Beyond the Wall plenty of times- we've seen Giants and Mammoths and Children of the Forest, all of which are widely believed to be extinct (like the Direwolf) but we have yet to come across any wild direwolves.

In addition, the term "warging" is exclusively reserved for wolves, which leads me to believe we should have come across at LEAST one other warg with a direwolf rather than a few other skinchangers (which, correct me if I'm wrong, are rarer than wargs).

The only thing I can think of is because GRRM needed it to be that way. Is there a simple, obvious answer to this that I'm just missing?

[Canon Claude]

Probably to keep the Stark wolves unique.

[The Fattest Leech]

Not-so-Good Queen Alysanne cut the north off from all of its indigenous culture and magic when she had Nightfort closed for BS reasons. This is also when the direwolves disappeared from south of the wall, as Theon notes in the beginning of the story. 

"Good" Queen Alysanne was absolutely awful for the north, and the general population, and especially the Starks. 

Since we never had a POV north of the wall, we don't know all of the direwolf particulars (yet?). There is a mention of the skinchangers (and possibly other wargs) having regular meetings where there is a peace and information exchange that happens. I'm on my phone so I can't quote it at the moment. Sorry. 

[Winter prince]

Now that you mention it, it almost seems like a missed opportunity to make the Stark wolves and their bond more unique.  If ole sixskins would have had an internal thought about how difficult it was to warg into a direwolf that's something we could see as more of a bond between the starks and their wolves

[Pray Harder]

3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Since we never had a POV north of the wall, we don't know all of the direwolf particulars (yet?).

We've had Jon and Varamyr POVs north of the Wall so far. I guess that's not much but it just kind of stands out as either an oversight or a deliberate decision on GRRM's part to keep the Stark wolves unique (as noted by Canon Claude).

[Aetta]

Did the bitch that gave birth to the pups get pregnant via emaculate conception? Agree with the other poster above, it would detract from the Stark wolves.  I think the storyline is ultimately moving south, not north (other than maybe 'splaining away what's far on the map, which could be intruiging) so no need to dwell on what's up there, really, uness it comes southbound.

 

[Therae]

Benjen at least hears direwolves north of the wall, but apparently never encounters any directly. I wonder if they sense his Stark blood and call to him.

"There are still direwolves beyond the Wall. We hear them on our rangings." Benjen Stark gave Jon a long look. "Don't you usually eat at table with your brothers?" (GoT, Jon I)

[The Fattest Leech]

36 minutes ago, Pray Harder said:

We've had Jon and Varamyr POVs north of the Wall so far. I guess that's not much but it just kind of stands out as either an oversight or a deliberate decision on GRRM's part to keep the Stark wolves unique (as noted by Canon Claude).

I meant a northern person POV. Varamyrs prologue is awesome, but hardly enough to give enough details. That may possibly be where it is mentioned that there are changer gatherings, and VS had his trainer, but again, this is really limited to a few page prologue. 

[Pray Harder]

41 minutes ago, Therae said:

Benjen at least hears direwolves north of the wall, but apparently never encounters any directly. I wonder if they sense his Stark blood and call to him.

"There are still direwolves beyond the Wall. We hear them on our rangings." Benjen Stark gave Jon a long look. "Don't you usually eat at table with your brothers?" (GoT, Jon I)

Thank you for finding some textual evidence that there are [theoretically] other direwolves roaming beyond the Wall. I'm assuming a direwolf howl is easily distinguishable from a regular wolf's howl? Or maybe Benjen has special Stark ears?

Or maybe he's Daario. 

[Pray Harder]

22 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I meant a northern person POV. Varamyrs prologue is awesome, but hardly enough to give enough details. That may possibly be where it is mentioned that there are changer gatherings, and VS had his trainer, but again, this is really limited to a few page prologue. 

Fair enough. And yes, that prologue is where we learn about the gatherings that Haggon brought Varamyr to meet his "own kind." I'm on my 5th re-read of Dance and read that chapter not too long ago. Sixskins also mentions that he should've taken Ghost when he had the chance- that that would be a "second life worthy of a king"...

[Therae]

2 minutes ago, Pray Harder said:

I'm assuming a direwolf howl is easily distinguishable from a regular wolf's howl? Or maybe Benjen has special Stark ears?

Maybe some of both.  I don't think anything that would distinguish a direwolf howl from an ordinary wolf howl is described, but that doesn't make it impossible or even unlikely that there would be a difference, since they are so much bigger.

That said, when Arya heard Grey Wind howling in grief at the Twins, she wasn't altogether sure she had heard it on her own.

Somewhere far off she heard a wolf howling. It wasn't very loud compared to the camp noise and the music and the low ominous growl of the river running wild, but she heard it all the same. Only maybe it wasn't her ears that heard it. The sound shivered through Arya like a knife, sharp with rage and grief. (SoS, Arya XI)

May have been that she was hearing it through Nymeria, or it may have been special Stark ears.

But Daario's all right, too.

[aryagonnakill#2]

34 minutes ago, Pray Harder said:

Thank you for finding some textual evidence that there are [theoretically] other direwolves roaming beyond the Wall. I'm assuming a direwolf howl is easily distinguishable from a regular wolf's howl? Or maybe Benjen has special Stark ears?

Or maybe he's Daario. 

 

23 minutes ago, Therae said:

Maybe some of both.  I don't think anything that would distinguish a direwolf howl from an ordinary wolf howl is described, but that doesn't make it impossible or even unlikely that there would be a difference, since they are so much bigger.

That said, when Arya heard Grey Wind howling in grief at the Twins, she wasn't altogether sure she had heard it on her own.

Somewhere far off she heard a wolf howling. It wasn't very loud compared to the camp noise and the music and the low ominous growl of the river running wild, but she heard it all the same. Only maybe it wasn't her ears that heard it. The sound shivered through Arya like a knife, sharp with rage and grief. (SoS, Arya XI)

May have been that she was hearing it through Nymeria, or it may have been special Stark ears.

But Daario's all right, too.

Theon notes a difference in the howls of a wolf and direwolf, he says it's a lower pitch.  He also says the direwolves themselves can be told apart.  So I don't think it's a stark thing.  Notice Benjen also says "we hear them on rangings" not I.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Benjen is not Daario.

OP, you're right that warging is a term exclusive to skinchanging wolves but that's all wolves, not just direwolves. Three of Varamyrs bond animals are wolves so he qualifies.

Welcome to the forums. 

 

[Pray Harder]

3 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Benjen is not Daario.

OP, you're right that warging is a term exclusive to skinchanging wolves but that's all wolves, not just direwolves. Three of Varamyrs bond animals are wolves so he qualifies.

Welcome to the forums. 

 

Haha thanks. I've actually been a lurking member since 2014. The Daario comment was sarcasm, but then again you really can't assume anything on these boards.

I guess my phrasing was weird in the OP regarding warging and skin changing...I know warging applies to all wolves but I find it bizarre that there wouldn't be ANY wargs with direwolves (besides Stark) mentioned when both warging and direwolves are associated with the North and the supernatural.

In addition, I was under the impression that skinchangers are more rare than wargs, yet we see multiple skinchangers, only one of whom is a warg. I suppose that's a separate topic but it strikes me as odd nonetheless. 

[Therae]

@aryagonnakill#2 - thank you! I do think it's not out of the realm of possibility that the direwolves were in earshot of Benjen's ranging parties because they were drawn to Benjen in particular, but that is, of course, entirely speculative. 

@Lady Blizzardborn - I was totally joking about Daario.  

[Lord Wraith]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Not-so-Good Queen Alysanne cut the north off from all of its indigenous culture and magic when she had Nightfort closed for BS reasons. This is also when the direwolves disappeared from south of the wall, as Theon notes in the beginning of the story. 

"Good" Queen Alysanne was absolutely awful for the north, and the general population, and especially the Starks. 

Since we never had a POV north of the wall, we don't know all of the direwolf particulars (yet?). There is a mention of the skinchangers (and possibly other wargs) having regular meetings where there is a peace and information exchange that happens. I'm on my phone so I can't quote it at the moment. Sorry. 

I will say there are other houses that supposedly who have historically had warging powers.

Farwynds (Iron Isle) 

Blackmonts (Dorne)

I know there are others but those are the only two I can think of off the topic of my head.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

1 hour ago, Pray Harder said:

Haha thanks. I've actually been a lurking member since 2014. The Daario comment was sarcasm, but then again you really can't assume anything on these boards.

I guess my phrasing was weird in the OP regarding warging and skin changing...I know warging applies to all wolves but I find it bizarre that there wouldn't be ANY wargs with direwolves (besides Stark) mentioned when both warging and direwolves are associated with the North and the supernatural.

In addition, I was under the impression that skinchangers are more rare than wargs, yet we see multiple skinchangers, only one of whom is a warg. I suppose that's a separate topic but it strikes me as odd nonetheless. 

I don't think it's a separate topic. Warging is skinchanging. It's just a special kind, because wolves are apparently really hard to bond with or subdue in general (look at how Varamyr's animals all hate him, he's a good example of the forced bonding). All wargs are skinchangers, but not all skinchangers are wargs. Given that Sansa lost Lady before learning of her ability I'm not sure if she would still qualify as a warg, but Martin said all six of the Stark kids are skinchangers, so she might be able to bond with another animal or with one of her siblings' wolves (should said sibling die).

I can see why it would be odd maybe that Varamyr hasn't found and forced a bond with a direwolf, but it may take getting one as a pup to be able to make it work and I doubt most wild direwolf mothers allow humans near their pups. It's a mystery how the direwolf in particular came to be associated with House Stark, as it seems implied by the history that the old Kings of Winter may have had direwolves as well. Perhaps the Warg King's daughters explain that somewhat. 

Did you happen to lurk on the thread about Blackwoods vs Brackens? There was an interesting discussion going on about the possibility that the Warg King whom the Starks defeated might have gone to the Riverlands and founded House Blackwood.

I agree that the direwolves are associated with the supernatural. The return of magic to my mind is signaled to the readers by the direwolves being south of the Wall. Well, that and the Others in the prologue--they're magical too.

ETA: it just hit me...it's not the skinchangers that are rare, it's the greenseers. Bran is both, which makes him extra special.

[Luddagain]

Lady Blizzard

 

Yes i think that the Balackwoods took their warging/skinchanging ability south. I suspect the Greystarks were also wargs/skinchangers, hecne their extermination. I rather suspect the many diapearing starks may also be those with warging ability

[Lord Vance II]

Usually when we have a POV north of the wall they are part of a big group. 

Jon spent a lot of time between the great ranging and his time with the wildling host, and the time with Qhorin was in terrible terrain. Sam spent a fair amount of time alone, but a lot of it was either with a group of retreating brothers or with Others around. So I think it would be reasonable to assume the direwolves would give groups like this a very wide berth. So they're there, but not trying to mess with big groups of humans/Others.

Also, I don't really have anything to base this on, but I would figure a pack of Direwolves would be smaller than a pack of regular wolves, so not as easy to run across. Nymeria gathering hundreds is a special case. 

Hell, maybe Ghost has met up with them. Maybe fathered some bastard wolves of his own. 

[Winter prince]

3 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

Usually when we have a POV north of the wall they are part of a big group. 

Jon spent a lot of time between the great ranging and his time with the wildling host, and the time with Qhorin was in terrible terrain. Sam spent a fair amount of time alone, but a lot of it was either with a group of retreating brothers or with Others around. So I think it would be reasonable to assume the direwolves would give groups like this a very wide berth. So they're there, but not trying to mess with big groups of humans/Others.

Also, I don't really have anything to base this on, but I would figure a pack of Direwolves would be smaller than a pack of regular wolves, so not as easy to run across. Nymeria gathering hundreds is a special case. 

Hell, maybe Ghost has met up with them. Maybe fathered some bastard wolves of his own. 

They were also having difficulties finding any animals on the ranging.  So, not overly surprising that there was no direwolves when there is nothing besides horses that the Nights Watch brought with them