The Fresh PtwP

Play-by-play Reread

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6 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

A quick Viserys interlude, just after (re)reading the world book I have even more sympathy for Viserys not an excuse for his behavior but damn he had a miserable existence. His childhood was spent at the height of Aerys paranoia some of which concerned him, he was old enough to feel the impact of the death of his brother, his father, and then his mother and the loss of his home. After Darry dies, he then has to raise a kid on the mean streets of Essos. The fact that Dany didn't starve to death IMO sets Viserys apart from being compared to other petulant antagonists (Joffery, Ramsey) his bark is 100 times worse than his bite.

You just convinced me to feel some sympathy for Viserys. Well done :D

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"I will refuse him," Ned said as he turned back to her. His eyes were haunted, his voice thick with doubt.

Catelyn sat up in the bed. "You cannot. You must not."

"My duties are here in the north. I have no wish to be Robert's Hand."

"He will not understand that. He is a king now, and kings are not like other men. If you refuse to serve him, he will wonder why, and sooner or later he will begin to suspect that you oppose him. Can't you see the danger that would put us in?"

Ned shook his head, refusing to believe. "Robert would never harm me or any of mine. We were closer than brothers. He loves me. If I refuse him, he will roar and curse and bluster, and in a week we will laugh about it together. I know the man!"

"You knew the man," she said. "The king is a stranger to you." Catelyn remembered the direwolf dead in the snow, the broken antler lodged deep in her throat. She had to make him see. "Pride is everything to a king, my lord. Robert came all this way to see you, to bring you these great honors, you cannot throw them back in his face." -AGoT, Catelyn II

This has always made me mad, there a couple of good reasons to not refuse Robert, this isn't one of them. Robert is alot of things but he would not start a war with the North because Ned has his own shit to take care of.

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"Gods, Catelyn, Sansa is only eleven," Ned said. "And Joffrey … Joffrey is …"

She finished for him. "… crown prince, and heir to the Iron Throne. And I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon." -AGoT, Catelyn II

Let him finish!! seriously wonder what he was about to say. At the very least he has some insight on Joff's nature. I would guess more than just him being spoiled...

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"He cannot stay here," Catelyn said, cutting him off. "He is your son, not mine. I will not have him." It was hard, she knew, but no less the truth. Ned would do the boy no kindness by leaving him here at Winterfell.

The look Ned gave her was anguished. "You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard's name … you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned." -AGoT, Catelyn II

This bothers me too, there are a couple bastards at court. Aurane even got a seat on the small council. Ned couldn't have gotten Jon a job with the gold cloaks? Also as LF said with Alayne, she is the Lord Protector's bastard never forget, that must ring all the more true for the Hand's bastard.

Not going to bog this down with quotes but after he delivered the letter I like that Luwin asked to withdraw three times. Kinda humorous on a reread. (also mildly suspicious) 

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Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words. She looked at Arya. "What did you think of Prince Joff, sister? He's very gallant, don't you think?"

"Jon says he looks like a girl," Arya said.

Sansa sighed as she stitched. "Poor Jon," she said. "He gets jealous because he's a bastard."

"He's our brother," Arya said, much too loudly. Her voice cut through the afternoon quiet of the tower room.

Septa Mordane raised her eyes. She had a bony face, sharp eyes, and a thin lipless mouth made for frowning. It was frowning now. "What are you talking about, children?"

"Our half brother," Sansa corrected, soft and precise. She smiled for the septa. "Arya and I were remarking on how pleased we were to have the princess with us today," she said.

Septa Mordane nodded. "Indeed. A great honor for us all." Princess Myrcella smiled uncertainly at the compliment. "Arya, why aren't you at work?" the septa asked. She rose to her feet, starched skirts rustling as she started across the room. "Let me see your stitches."

Arya wanted to scream. It was just like Sansa to go and attract the septa's attention. "Here," she said, surrendering up her work.

The septa examined the fabric. "Arya, Arya, Arya," she said. "This will not do. This will not do at all."

Everyone was looking at her. It was too much. Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. Even Princess Myrcella looked sorry for her. Arya felt tears filling her eyes. She pushed herself out of her chair and bolted for the door.

Septa Mordane called after her. "Arya, come back here! Don't you take another step! Your lady mother will hear of this. In front of our royal princess too! You'll shame us all!" -AGoT, Arya I

Arya's kinda a hater...

Wait a minute. This looks a lot more like Sansa covering for Arya, who is the actual one who attracted the Septa's attention with her outburst.

Unpopular opinion: Sansa's right too, Jon does get jealous because he's a bastard.

Septa Mordane reminds me of this at the end: http://i.imgur.com/HDY5hPw.gif

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"It wasn't fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn." -AGoT, Arya I

Forget kinda Arya is a hater.

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"Prince Joffrey looked at him. "Oh, terrified," he said. "You're so much older." Some of the Lannister men laughed.

Jon looked down on the scene with a frown. "Joffrey is truly a little shit," he told Arya.

...

Joffrey shrugged. "Come and see me when you're older, Stark. If you're not too old." There was laughter from the Lannister men.

Robb's curses rang through the yard. Arya covered her mouth in shock. Theon Greyjoy seized Robb's arm to keep him away from the prince. Ser Rodrik tugged at his whiskers in dismay.

Joffrey feigned a yawn and turned to his younger brother. "Come, Tommen," he said. "The hour of play is done. Leave the children to their frolics."

That brought more laughter from the Lannisters, more curses from Robb. Ser Rodrik's face was beet-red with fury under the white of his whiskers. Theon kept Robb locked in an iron grip until the princes and their party were safely away." -AGoT, Arya I

Joffery has friends? weird that these Lannister men and squires in his entourage don't get mentioned more when he is king.

Edited by The Fresh PtwP
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"Bran had been left behind with Jon and the girls and Rickon. But Rickon was only a baby and the girls were only girls and Jon and his wolf were nowhere to be found. Bran did not look for him very hard. He thought Jon was angry at him. Jon seemed to be angry at everyone these days. Bran did not know why. He was going with Uncle Ben to the Wall, to join the Night's Watch. That was almost as good as going south with the king. Robb was the one they were leaving behind, not Jon."

Go play with Rickon, Bran! Go hang with the girls! Find Jon!

Why is Jon angry? He doesn't know the NW sucks yet he got exactly what he wanted, maybe he wanted to go on the hunt but that seems...petty.

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Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard. 

Damn it, first gut punch right in the feels.

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They were talking about Father, Bran realized. He wanted to hear more. 

No!

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Bran studied the ledge. He could drop down. It was too narrow to land on, but if he could catch hold as he fell past, pull himself up … except that might make a noise, draw them to the window. He was not sure what he was hearing, but he knew it was not meant for his ears.

No! No! you idiot!

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Bran was suddenly very frightened. He wanted nothing so much as to go back the way he had come, to find his brothers. Only what would he tell them? He had to get closer, Bran realized. He had to see who was talking.

NOOO!

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Bran looked in the window.

You STUPID!

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The man ignored her. He was very strong. He stood Bran up on the sill. "How old are you, boy?"

"Seven," Bran said, shaking with relief. His fingers had dug deep gouges in the man's forearm. He let go sheepishly.

The man looked over at the woman. "The things I do for love," he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove.

Damn it Jaime!! Damn it Bran!! Jesus...

Let me get some things straight, first off I like Jaime, he's one of my favorite characters, he is NOT a hero. This precludes him being a hero, redemption arc be damned. He tried to murder a child, not a hero, I know his reasons and it could be argued from a pragmatic perspective, still not heroic. 

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7 minutes ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

You STUPID!

You sound like the hater ;)

8 minutes ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

Let me get some things straight, first off I like Jaime, he's one of my favorite characters, he is NOT a hero. This precludes him being a hero, redemption arc be damned. He tried to murder a child, not a hero, I know his reasons and it could be argued from a pragmatic perspective, still not heroic. 

Jaime and Theon are both shits. But their characters are fascinating. 

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7 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

@The Fresh PtwP clearly is.  How sad. 

That's not what I meant. Arya has said, "You stupid," several times. 

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On 3/17/2017 at 7:02 PM, DutchArya said:

@The Fresh PtwP clearly is.  How sad. 

Hahaha who am I hating on?

On 3/17/2017 at 7:13 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

That's not what I meant. Arya has said, "You stupid," several times. 

Was semi-intentional lol

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On 3/16/2017 at 6:21 PM, fire&blood said:

You just convinced me to feel some sympathy for Viserys. Well done :D

Viserys is actually a very tragic character. It's just so much more fun to dislike him than to feel bad for him.

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"The boy is a long time dying. I wish he would be quicker about it."

Tyrion glanced down and saw the Hound standing with young Joffrey as squires swarmed around them. "At least he dies quietly," the prince replied. "It's the wolf that makes the noise. I could scarce sleep last night."

Clegane cast a long shadow across the hard-packed earth as his squire lowered the black helm over his head. "I could silence the creature, if it please you," he said through his open visor.

...

The notion seemed to delight the prince. "Send a dog to kill a dog!" he exclaimed. "Winterfell is so infested with wolves, the Starks would never miss one." -AGoT Tyrion I

I've always wondered what is the extent of Joffery and the Hound's "friendship". The Hound seems pretty tolerant of Joff's nature...

Also who are the "squires" always around Joff and where do they go when he becomes King?

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"A voice from nowhere," Sandor said. He peered through his helm, looking this way and that. "Spirits of the air!"

The prince laughed, as he always laughed when his bodyguard did this mummer's farce. Tyrion was used to it." -AGoT Tyrion I

Again the Hound seems to be doing this strictly for Joff's benefit, not exactly something you would do for someone you despised.

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"Not near soon enough," Cersei said. Then she frowned. "Are we leaving?" she echoed. "What about you? Gods, don't tell me you are staying here?"

Tyrion shrugged. "Benjen Stark is returning to the Night's Watch with his brother's bastard. I have a mind to go with them and see this Wall we have all heard so much of."

Jaime smiled. "I hope you're not thinking of taking the black on us, sweet brother." -AGoT Tyrion I

This is the last time all three Lannister siblings are together :(

What's with Cersei? Why does she care? By the way, and I think Jaime helps alot, but Cersei and Tyrion are pretty civil at this breakfast.

Edited by The Fresh PtwP

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Lady Stark looked over. For a moment she did not seem to recognize him. Finally she blinked. "What are you doing here?" she asked in a voice strangely flat and emotionless. -AGoT Jon II

Just his similarity with Ned/Brandon or is something else (BR) afoot. 

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Something cold moved in her eyes. "I told you to leave," she said. "We don't want you here." -AGoT Jon II

Probably nothing...OR IS IT? LSH=Night's Queen confirmed.

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She was holding one of his hands. It looked like a claw. This was not the Bran he remembered. The flesh had all gone from him. His skin stretched tight over bones like sticks. Under the blanket, his legs bent in ways that made Jon sick. His eyes were sunken deep into black pits; open, but they saw nothing. The fall had shrunken him somehow. He looked half a leaf, as if the first strong wind would carry him off to his grave. -AGoT Jon II

This is an interesting desciption it makes me think of the Children, Jon even compares Bran to a leaf. "This is not the Bran he remembered" can be read multiple ways as well. Could be foreshadowing of Bran going too far with his demi-Old God status. The eyes remind me of Bran talking with Jon about darkness, something like "I like it in the dark, you can see them, but they can't see you." 

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"I wanted him to stay here with me," Lady Stark said softly.

Jon watched her, wary. She was not even looking at him. She was talking to him, but for a part of her, it was as though he were not even in the room.

"I prayed for it," she said dully. "He was my special boy. I went to the sept and prayed seven times to the seven faces of god that Ned would change his mind and leave him here with me. Sometimes prayers are answered." -AGoT Jon II

I've always wondered why Bran is her favorite. My personal crackpot is he looks like his uncle Brandon.

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Jon did not know what to say. "It wasn't your fault," he managed after an awkward silence.

Her eyes found him. They were full of poison. "I need none of your absolution, bastard." -AGoT Jon II

...maybe.

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He was at the door when she called out to him. "Jon," she said. He should have kept going, but she had never called him by his name before. He turned to find her looking at his face, as if she were seeing it for the first time.

"Yes?" he said.

"It should have been you," she told him. Then she turned back to Bran and began to weep, her whole body shaking with the sobs. Jon had never seen her cry before. -AGoT Jon II

Hmmm, this could have some endgame implications. Perhaps Jon is better suited to become BR's student to fight the Others. Maybe Bran's role as Last Hero is a sacrificial one, or he'll have to make a terrible choice and choose wrong. Fun to speculate, interesting line.

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"Good." He smiled. "The next time I see you, you'll be all in black."

Jon forced himself to smile back. "It was always my color. How long do you think it will be?"

"Soon enough," Robb promised. He pulled Jon to him and embraced him fiercely. "Farewell, Snow."

Jon hugged him back. "And you, Stark. Take care of Bran." -AGoT Jon II

Can Jon get anymore emo, all hail the edge-lord. Seriously though why is black his color? Except for a hint to R+L=J.

I don't like that they call each other Snow and Stark, way too formal and insensitive, they seem too close for that.

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"King's Landing is a true city, a thousand times the size of Winterfell. Until you find a partner, watch how they fight in the yard. Run, and ride, make yourself strong. And whatever you do …"

Arya knew what was coming next. They said it together.

"… don't … tell … Sansa!" -AGoT Jon II

 Better advise than stick them with the pointy end...seriously this is why I give the Tyrell's a complete pass for ignoring Sansa after Tyrion and her wedding. Three people knew about the Willas/Sansa plot, Marge, Olenna and Sansa. She is terrible at not letting info slip.

Edited by The Fresh PtwP

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"My fellow magisters have doubled the size of the city guard," Illyrio told them over platters of honey duck and orange snap peppers one night at the manse that had been Drogo's.

...

Magister Illyrio laughed lightly through his forked beard, but Viserys did not so much as smile. "He can have her tomorrow, if he likes," her brother said. He glanced over at Dany, and she lowered her eyes. "So long as he pays the price."

Illyrio waved a languid hand in the air, rings glittering on his fat fingers. "I have told you, all is settled. Trust me. The khal has promised you a crown, and you shall have it." -AGoT, Daenerys II

I'm firmly in the camp that Dany was given to Drogo so he would not sack Pentos and Illyrio is playing the Targlings.

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"Dragon's eggs, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai," said Magister Illyrio. "The eons have turned them to stone, yet still they burn bright with beauty." -AGoT, Daenerys II

Okay, just gonna assume the plot demanded it happen this way and raise no further questions on this Illyrio, at this point...Okay. 

Two side notes I don't fee like quoting:

1.) Dany's silver horse seems pretty unique/awesome wonder how Barristan will fare riding it into battle.

2.) I think in Illyrio's talk with Tyrion, when Tyrion was repping being a lion, Illyrio reacted so harshly because he had experience with Viserys and wasn't going to deal with that B.S. again. Nothing too important just chuckled when I thought of it.

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Ned was ready for that. "Yet we still must have a Warden of the East. If Robert Arryn will not do, name one of your brothers. Stannis proved himself at the siege of Storm's End, surely."

He let the name hang there for a moment. The king frowned and said nothing. He looked uncomfortable.

"That is," Ned finished quietly, watching, "unless you have already promised the honor to another."

For a moment Robert had the grace to look startled. Just as quickly, the look became annoyance. "What if I have?" -AGoT Eddard II

Pretty much the only thing, I found of note in Eddard II, shockingly is another question; Why didn't Robert name Stannis as Warden of the East? This above not naming him Hand, above leaving SE with Renly, seems deliberately anti-Stannis.

Edited by The Fresh PtwP

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1 hour ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

She was holding one of his hands. It looked like a claw. This was not the Bran he remembered. The flesh had all gone from him. His skin stretched tight over bones like sticks. Under the blanket, his legs bent in ways that made Jon sick. His eyes were sunken deep into black pits; open, but they saw nothing.The fall had shrunken him somehow. He looked half a leaf, as if the first strong wind would carry him off to his grave. -AGoT Jon II

You could post that in the Moments of Foreshadowing thread. That's pretty cool. 

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He took a small revenge in the matter of his riding fur, a tattered bearskin, old and musty-smelling. Stark had offered it to him in an excess of Night's Watch gallantry, no doubt expecting him to graciously decline. Tyrion had accepted with a smile. He had brought his warmest clothing with him when they rode out of Winterfell, and soon discovered that it was nowhere near warm enough. It was cold up here, and growing colder. The nights were well below freezing now, and when the wind blew it was like a knife cutting right through his warmest woolens. By now Stark was no doubt regretting his chivalrous impulse. Perhaps he had learned a lesson. The Lannisters never declined, graciously or otherwise. The Lannisters took what was offered. -AGoT Tyrion II

Bears are always interesting on a symbolic level, there was a good description of Robert in a looking like a bear last chapter that I forgot to add so I'll mention it here. Never noticed how far that cloak has come.

Also the last part is one of my favorite quotes because to me it sums up the Lannisters perfectly. It's like a banner for greed, the Lannisters are super rich, proud, etc but they are not above taking what you have, simply because: more. 

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 When he had moved away, Tyrion could have sworn that the beast's empty eye sockets had watched him go. -AGoT Tyrion II

(sigh) I really hope he doesn't get a dragon...

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"Oh, yes. Even a stunted, twisted, ugly little boy can look down over the world when he's seated on a dragon's back." 

...

I know your secret. You've dreamt the same kind of dreams." -AGoT Tyrion II

And this is exactly why I don't want him to have a dragon. Tyrion capering about, getting back at all the people who ever laughed at him...finally getting to look down on people...ugh.

On the surface, Tyrion is talking about roasting annoying family members with dragon fire, but definitely makes me think of dragon dreams. Also wrong secret Tyrion, try again.

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"No? Never?" Tyrion raised an eyebrow. "Well, no doubt the Starks have been terribly good to you. I'm certain Lady Stark treats you as if you were one of her own. And your brother Robb, he's always been kind, and why not? He gets Winterfell and you get the Wall. And your father … he must have good reasons for packing you off to the Night's Watch …"

"Stop it," Jon Snow said, his face dark with anger. "The Night's Watch is a noble calling!"

Tyrion laughed. "You're too smart to believe that. The Night's Watch is a midden heap for all the misfits of the realm. I've seen you looking at Yoren and his boys. Those are your new brothers, Jon Snow, how do you like them? Sullen peasants, debtors, poachers, rapers, thieves, and bastards like you all wind up on the Wall, watching for grumkins and snarks and all the other monsters your wet nurse warned you about. The good part is there are no grumkins or snarks, so it's scarcely dangerous work. The bad part is you freeze your balls off, but since you're not allowed to breed anyway, I don't suppose that matters."

"Stop it!" the boy screamed. He took a step forward, his hands coiling into fists, close to tears.

Suddenly, absurdly, Tyrion felt guilty. He took a step forward, intending to give the boy a reassuring pat on the shoulder or mutter some word of apology.

He never saw the wolf, where it was or how it came at him. One moment he was walking toward Snow and the next he was flat on his back on the hard rocky ground, the book spinning away from him as he fell, the breath going out of him at the sudden impact, his mouth full of dirt and blood and rotting leaves. As he tried to get up, his back spasmed painfully. He must have wrenched it in the fall. He ground his teeth in frustration, grabbed a root, and pulled himself back to a sitting position. "Help me," he said to the boy, reaching up a hand.
And suddenly the wolf was between them. He did not growl. The damned thing never made a sound. He only looked at him with those bright red eyes, and showed him his teeth, and that was more than enough. Tyrion sagged back to the ground with a grunt. "Don't help me, then. I'll sit right here until you leave."

Jon Snow stroked Ghost's thick white fur, smiling now. "Ask me nicely."

Tyrion Lannister felt the anger coiling inside him, and crushed it out with a will. It was not the first time in his life he had been humiliated, and it would not be the last. Perhaps he even deserved this. "I should be very grateful for your kind assistance, Jon," he said mildly. -AGoT Tyrion II

 It's not absurd to feel guilty after that you little s.o.b. There were quite a few low-blows in that tirade. Tyrion is very skilled in angering young princes: Jon, Joff, Aegon it makes me think about how his meeting with Dany will go down.

Speaking of Aegon, alot has been made of three key words he said, "Pick those up," I will counter with some Jon brattiness that I think is worse, "Ask me nicely". Wow really? Forget Bowen Marsh, forget Janos, forget allowing Mance into the realm, this might be Jon's crowning moment of d-baggery. At least no Tyrions were harmed in the making of Aegon's petulant display. Not so much with Jon's.

@Lost Melnibonean I think I will, thank you. I have no idea what it could mean going forward though.

Edited by The Fresh PtwP

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9 hours ago, The Fresh PtwP said:

 

@Lost Melnibonean I think I will, thank you. I have no idea what it could mean going forward though.

It foreshadows Bran becoming a greenseer like Bloodraven. Whether Bran goes all the way down that road or not. 

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