US Politics: Speak Into the Microwave

[DMC]

23 minutes ago, The Brandon Stark said:

Again, please read up on AMTs before trying to pretend you understand what the hell you are talking about. Fucking nut...lmao

Right.  I think we all need to read up on the AMT.  Like how it was instituted in 1969 under the socialist Nixon administration.  Or how the exponential increase in individuals being affected by it occurred during that pinko Dubya's administration - which was then quelled by that successor of who presided over this:

Quote

Congress finally adjusted the AMT for inflation in 2013, reducing the numbers of middle-class and other non-wealthy taxpayers who will be subject to the AMT in the future.

But let's forget about the fact Trump has already admitted paying no income taxes and writing off $916 million in losses.  That's just winning.  On opposite day.

If it was worthwhile, I would try to explain why most center-left policies would not "tax us to hell for entitlements" in the least.  But it's clearly not worth it.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, The Brandon Stark said:

Really? Supporting single-payer health care and free higher-education aren't socialist ideals? Constantly harping on further taxation isn't socialism? And paying 25% of one's earnings is NOT grossly undertaxed. Certainly not when the federal government shits away most of those tax dollars.

Okay, I'll go ahead and play along. So it's socialist stuff. So in the fuck what? What's your point. Do you have one?

Should we get rid of public schools? How about the military?  How roads, bridges, and airports? Courts of law?

Goody for you, you're not a "socialist". Not everyone can be a kewl libertarian.

[OldGimletEye]

I'd rather be a socialisticishly sort of person than some Ayn Readin, feudal lord lovin, libertarian person, pissed off the South lost the Civil War.

[OldGimletEye]

You know, I do believe that private markets can often achieve good outcomes. But, I also believe there is a role for government. And I believe in progressive taxation.

And if that makes me a "socialist", you know how I feel about it? I don't give a fuck.

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

And I believe in progressive taxation.

You must be one of those radicals that supported the 16th amendment.  Next thing you'll tell me is you think Senators should be elected by popular vote - or even that WOMEN should be allowed to vote!

[The Brandon Stark]

28 minutes ago, MerenthaClone said:

Pretty solidly within the social democrat wheelhouse, there, I'm afraid, and all very much within the capitalist paradigm.  Like I said, capitalism with the edges filed off so its tolerable.  Sorry that you've had your mind poisoned by people claiming that anything to the left of Randian masturbatory fantasies is the dreaded socialism.  

Yeah, it really is. Progressive income taxes exist for a reason and should be greatly strengthened.  25% total on the top earners is a travesty considering the variable value of money to those at the extremes.  

I feel like I am back in college and being lectured by another ultra-liberal professor and getting ready to call BULLSHIT on them. Randian Masturbatory Fantasies is probably something you couldn't wait to use in the forums. What prof used that in what lecture? And please, try to explain what makes Capitalism so evil? My mind isn't poisoned, Socialism is a sickness. Not Capitalism.

[The Brandon Stark]

20 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I'd rather be a socialisticishly sort of person than some Ayn Readin, feudal lord lovin, libertarian person, pissed off the South lost the Civil War.

Try again. I was born in NJ. Was a democrat until 2016. Stop making implications but than that is all the Left is good for.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, The Brandon Stark said:

I feel like I am back in college and being lectured by another ultra-liberal professor and getting ready to call BULLSHIT on them. Randian Masturbatory Fantasies is probably something you couldn't wait to use in the forums. What prof used that in what lecture? And please, try to explain what makes Capitalism so evil? My mind isn't poisoned, Socialism is a sickness. Not Capitalism.

And I feel I'm being lectured by somebody that read too much Ayn Rand.

No they didn't. Did anybody here say, let's eliminate all private ownership of capital? No they didn't.

Did anybody here say let's eliminate all private markets? No they didn't.

And please tell us how your preferred version of capitalism would work so much better. Tell us some about how Ronnie did it!!!

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, The Brandon Stark said:

I feel like I am back in college and being lectured by another ultra-liberal professor and getting ready to call BULLSHIT on them. Randian Masturbatory Fantasies is probably something you couldn't wait to use in the forums. What prof used that in what lecture? And please, try to explain what makes Capitalism so evil? My mind isn't poisoned, Socialism is a sickness. Not Capitalism.

I was going to engage, but this will be more fun: what makes socialism so evil in your mind? What makes Capitalism (apparently we have to Capitalize it?) not evil? 

And if you can use examples of a country that did best via pure capitalism and as little socialistic ideals as possible, along with what time period that would be, that'd be great.

[OldGimletEye]

Anyway, here what I wrote in the last thread:

Quote

You know, when we think about the rise of modern capitalism, as we understand it, the place where we tend to think it did arise first was England. And English capitalism grew right up with the centralization of that state and wasn't the fuckin libertarian wank fest that people like @Commodore think it was.

There is good argument that British government debt, which were safe stores of value, facilitated the rise of the rest of the British financial system, which helped to begat capitalism there. And that debt was backed by a strong taxing state. Louis XIV might have styled himself as the "Sun King" but he could only wish that he could tax like England could and did in the 18th Century.

The rise of market capitalism, I think, is of a different kind of story, than of libertarian fairy tales.

Randian fanboys might think capitalism started with a bunch of libertarians tradin gold and oversized Texas Belt Buckles or something.

But, in reality, the state was quite involved.

[all swedes are racist]

49 minutes ago, The Brandon Stark said:

Really? Supporting single-payer health care and free higher-education aren't socialist ideals? Constantly harping on further taxation isn't socialism? And paying 25% of one's earnings is NOT grossly undertaxed. Certainly not when the federal government shits away most of those tax dollars.

bahaha, yeah, those barely move the needle. that fact we even have to fight for the idea that the richest nation in the history of this planet could maybe grant all of its citizens the right to stay healthy and pursue the opportunity to educate and better themselves if fucking embarrassing. 

[Kalbear]

Also, ten bucks says he brings up Venezuela next.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, The Brandon Stark said:

I feel like I am back in college and being lectured by another ultra-liberal professor and getting ready to call BULLSHIT on them. Randian Masturbatory Fantasies is probably something you couldn't wait to use in the forums. What prof used that in what lecture? And please, try to explain what makes Capitalism so evil? My mind isn't poisoned, Socialism is a sickness. Not Capitalism.

Ask not what your ultra-liberal professor can do for you, ask what you can do for your ultra-liberal professor!  She would obviously be disappointed with your lack of basic knowledge that if it wasn't for socialist policies, capitalism's sickness would have poisoned it to death 90 years ago.

4 minutes ago, Triskan said:

And so, the question:  is it a troll or is it not a troll?

Troll or no troll, it's fun to play when drunk.

[all swedes are racist]

I'd love to see the diaper filling when you are in the same room with an actual socialist (let alone communist) when we start talking about shit like fully unionized/worker owned cooperative ventures, UBI and earnings ceilings

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, The Brandon Stark said:

Try again. I was born in NJ. Was a democrat until 2016. Stop making implications but than that is all the Left is good for.

Oh, now you wouldn't be making any implications, now would you? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Jeez.

Now, if you are going to start making implications about liberalism or other ideologies, which are inaccurate caricatures, then standby. Cause I'll start making all sorts of implications about your preferred little ideology, which you think is so awesome but isn't. Where you were born is irrelevant here for our purposes.

[James Arryn]

1 hour ago, The Brandon Stark said:

So the self-proclaimed Socialist Bernie isn't a Socialist? Okay and I'm fucking nuts? And yes Liberals that want to tax us to hell for entitlements are Socialists, Barry included. Regardless of how President Trump paid his taxes, it was 25% of his earnings. Again, please read up on AMTs before trying to pretend you understand what the hell you are talking about. Fucking nut...lmao

Quaint.

[MerenthaClone]

24 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

You know, I do believe that private markets can often achieve good outcomes. But, I also believe there is a role for government. And I believe in progressive taxation.

And if that makes me a "socialist", you know how I feel about it? I don't give a fuck.

But since words have meanings, it probably means you're a social democrat. That was easy!  Though I agree, I'm not sure why socialist is somehow a bad word.  I just like people to be precise, and I'm constantly irked by Sanders' attempts to reclaim the word but doing it improperly.  

15 minutes ago, The Brandon Stark said:

I feel like I am back in college and being lectured by another ultra-liberal professor and getting ready to call BULLSHIT on them. Randian Masturbatory Fantasies is probably something you couldn't wait to use in the forums. What prof used that in what lecture? And please, try to explain what makes Capitalism so evil? My mind isn't poisoned, Socialism is a sickness. Not Capitalism.

Well, for one, without the edges filed off or some form of control imposed on it by a government, you end up with corporations in massive monopolies controlling everything through effectively wage slavery.  I never said capitalism was inherently evil, I said it needs a framework imposed from without to make it not so.  Like, for instance, a minimum wage, anti-trust laws, worker protection laws, legally supported collective bargaining agreements, various regulatory agencies that prevent companies from exploiting their workers, and a ton more that you take for granted because we don't have unfettered capitalism, nor should we.  But it leads to self-reinforcing loops.  The rich get richer, get more power, which enables them to more thoroughly exploit more people, which makes them get richer, etc etc etc. 

e:  Instead of calling bullshit on your professors whenever you disagreed with them, maybe you should have listened slightly better when they told you that your reading comprehension was a bit shit.  But I don't believe for a second that you called bullshit, you muttered angrily to yourself and typed up reddit stdh stories of your bravery featuring you standing up to that oh-so-liberal professor and being applauded by your classmates as the professor gawps at your brilliance.  

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Where you were born is irrelevant. here for our purposes.

I don't know....do we really want to ignore the comedic value of someone admitting to being from Jersey?  (Sorry George!)

[all swedes are racist]

lol at the "ex-democrat" meme. oooh, you've really travelled such a long and winding path to republicanism

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, MerenthaClone said:

But since words have meanings, it probably means you're a social democrat. That was easy!  Though I agree, I'm not sure why socialist is somehow a bad word.  I just like people to be precise, and I'm constantly irked by Sanders' attempts to reclaim the word but doing it improperly.  

Well, I'm not sure its a bad word either. And if somebody wants that term to describe me, you know, it doesn't bother me. What bothers me more is that they think they can shut down an entire argument, as if this were the 1950's, by using that word.