Stannis is the man....nis Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Healthcare starting to hurt Trump: Gallup 39/55, Rasmussen: 45/54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 2 hours ago, DunderMifflin said: It just seems backwards to me that someone would go "Yeh I'm going to preach openly about a white only state, hating jews, ally with open nazis and push ethnic cleansing but I'm not going to say I'm a nazi because THAT would make me look bad" But that's exactly what Spencer did. He rebranded the Neo-Nazi tag by calling it Alt-Right. As proud as he may be of his nazi ideology, he doesn't want to be called a nazi. He's Alt-Right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 41 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: But that's exactly what Spencer did. He rebranded the Neo-Nazi tag by calling it Alt-Right. As proud as he may be of his nazi ideology, he doesn't want to be called a nazi. He's Alt-Right! I suppose it might be effective I guess. To me him preaching ethnic cleansing and jew hating as an Alt right looks just as bad as if he did it as a nazi. The great irony here for neo nazis is that Hitler didn't refer to himself as a nazi. The etymology of nazi is a German putdown akin to calling someone a redneck or hick today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: I suppose it might be effective I guess. To me him preaching ethnic cleansing and jew hating as an Alt right looks just as bad as if he did it as a nazi. It might be effective? You guess? Would Bannon be anywhere near the president if his publication's stated goal was to give a voice to the Nazis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: I suppose it might be effective I guess. To me him preaching ethnic cleansing and jew hating as an Alt right looks just as bad as if he did it as a nazi. The great irony here for neo nazis is that Hitler didn't refer to himself as a nazi. The etymology of nazi is a German putdown akin to calling someone a redneck or hick today. The point is that he is a nazi. The Alt-Right designation does nothing to change that fact. It's like if Spam changed it's name to Veal Parmesan without actually changing the product. It's a sleight of hand act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/15/14908524/obamacare-lessons-ahca-gop The Lessons of Obamacare What Republicans should have learned, but haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 45 minutes ago, aceluby said: It might be effective? You guess? Would Bannon be anywhere near the president if his publication's stated goal was to give a voice to the Nazis? I'm not talking about Bannon though. 43 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: The point is that he is a nazi. The Alt-Right designation does nothing to change that fact. It's like if Spam changed it's name to Veal Parmesan without actually changing the product. It's a sleight of hand act. His form of racism most definately changes the product from swastika donning skinhead caricatures screaming white power to something far more dangerous imo. As JA hinted earlier, Spencer seems to have more in common with actual Hitler than any modern open neo nazi we've ever seen, in that with his charisma, well spoken and well educated demeanor he could completely pass as a credible mainstream political figure if not for his white supremacy message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 48 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: I'm not talking about Bannon though. You've been talking about whether it's effective or not to change the word 'nazi' to 'alt-right' for a couple pages. The question to you is, would Bannon be where he is today if his publication came out as the voice of the nazis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, aceluby said: You've been talking about whether it's effective or not to change the word 'nazi' to 'alt-right' for a couple pages. The question to you is, would Bannon be where he is today if his publication came out as the voice of the nazis? No, I mentioned that it was possibly an effective strategy for one specific person. I made no opinion of it's general overall effectiveness in any situation anywhere. I wont accuse Bannon of white supremacy racism because all there is is evidence of him being that with questionable relationships and comments. With Spencer, racism and white supremacy clearly and plainly come out of his own mouth. I don't have to connect dots or jump through any hoops to accuse him of that because it comes directly from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 3 hours ago, Stannis is the man....nis said: Healthcare starting to hurt Trump: Gallup 39/55, Rasmussen: 45/54 not sure you can pin this all on healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, Swordfish said: not sure you can pin this all on healthcare. Out of curiosity, what would you think might be going wrong for Trump other than the health care debates? I feel like the rest of the stuff that has been swirling around the past week or so hasn't been anything new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Out of curiosity, what would you think might be going wrong for Trump other than the health care debates? I feel like the rest of the stuff that has been swirling around the past week or so hasn't been anything new. I think the wiretapping claim is starting to crack right now, too, which could affect some of the (few remaining) moderate Trump-supporters who are getting tired of all the theatrics from Trump. But the above polls are rolling averages of three days, so they may not cover that part yet, at least not fully. On the bright side, that means he could slide further in the near future, especially if Comey comes out strongly against the claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 1 minute ago, denstorebog said: I think the wiretapping claim is starting to crack right now, too, which could affect some of the (few remaining) moderate Trump-supporters who are getting tired of all the theatrics from Trump. But the above polls are rolling averages of three days, so they may not cover that part yet, at least not fully. On the bright side, that means he could slide further in the near future, especially if Comey comes out strongly against the claims. Well, Trump's latest thing is wiretap = lots of things. So if there is an investigation at all on anyone connected to him, he's going to claim he was always right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, denstorebog said: I think the wiretapping claim is starting to crack right now, too, which could affect some of the (few remaining) moderate Trump-supporters who are getting tired of all the theatrics from Trump. I guess I don't really see how the wiretapping tweets could possibly matter to Trump supporters. Trump has upset "presidential norms" and made demonstrably false claims countless times in the past couple years. Why would this time be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 48 minutes ago, DunderMifflin said: No, I mentioned that it was possibly an effective strategy for one specific person. I made no opinion of it's general overall effectiveness in any situation anywhere. I wont accuse Bannon of white supremacy racism because all there is is evidence of him being that with questionable relationships and comments. With Spencer, racism and white supremacy clearly and plainly come out of his own mouth. I don't have to connect dots or jump through any hoops to accuse him of that because it comes directly from him. I'm not asking you to accuse Bannon of white supremacy or racism. I'm asking you if Bannon would be right hand man to the president if he ran a publication that gave voice to nazism, as opposed to the stated claim of giving a voice to the alt-right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 1 minute ago, aceluby said: I'm not asking you to accuse Bannon of white supremacy or racism. I'm asking you if Bannon would be right hand man to the president if he ran a publication that gave voice to nazism, as opposed to the stated claim of giving a voice to the alt-right? OK I'll answer your question but first I'm going to point out that this is a brand new discussion to me unrelated to my previous one. So no I don't think Bannon would be where he is if he said he wanted to give a voice tO nazis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Probably not. You know, the label of a product is as important as the product itself. A very depressing thought is, that without deterrent label "Nazi" now some more people feel free/happy to say. I agree with him. It's a bit like the old, I am not a Nazi, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Notone said: I am not a Nazi, but... ..... I have a toothbrush moustache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Notone said: Probably not. You know, the label of a product is as important as the product itself. A very depressing thought is, that without deterrent label "Nazi" now some more people feel free/happy to say. I agree with him. It's a bit like the old, I am not a Nazi, but... Exactly. The term is becoming more mainstream and homogenous nationalism in America now has a major voice in policy making. The fact that a racist white supremacist has any success just changing his 'brand' shows how successful this trend has become over the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Well, just go back to call them Neo-Nazis. Don't let them get away with rebranding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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