hiemal

Cometary Questions: Re-examining the Red Comet

49 posts in this topic

Well, to address your question about the comet orbit, I'm not sure how you are picturing the planet, comet, and sun but when Dany sees it it would be outside GRRth orbit. Also, orbits are not circular, they are elliptical, and smaller celestial bodies like comets have much bigger, more elongated orbits than planets. Like one of the reasons that Pluto is not a planet is because it's orbit crosses that of a planet. The reason comets can only be seen every so often is because they go way far away in their orbit.

Anyways, none of that is too important, because obviously the comet is actually the Volcryn from Nightflyers and it is the real antagonist of the story ;)

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13 hours ago, hiemal said:

If the poles reversed, wouldn't east and west switch as well?

 

The magnetic poles reverse from time to time, not the rotation poles. They are different. The magnetic poles wander considerably and reverse too. Rotation poles do not reverse, although they move too (precession, etc),  but they are fixed geographically although they also wander a tiny bit, e.g. each time there is a big earthquake.

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24 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

The magnetic poles reverse from time to time, not the rotation poles. They are different. The magnetic poles wander considerably and reverse too. Rotation poles do not reverse, although they move too (precession, etc),  but they are fixed geographically although they also wander a tiny bit, e.g. each time there is a big earthquake.

I'm curious; what's your interpretation -- fulfilling both the story's symbolic as well as your scientific requirements -- then for how a 'sun' or sun-like object might 'rise in the west' in order to fulfill Dany's prophecy?  I don't think that was just Mirri being rhetorical in order to deliver a melodramatic 'never!'

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

The magnetic poles reverse from time to time, not the rotation poles. They are different. The magnetic poles wander considerably and reverse too. Rotation poles do not reverse, although they move too (precession, etc),  but they are fixed geographically although they also wander a tiny bit, e.g. each time there is a big earthquake.

They don't literally reverse, but if you define east by relationship with magnetic north than they are reversed when that goes is my point

 

Edited by hiemal

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2 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I'm curious; what's your interpretation -- fulfilling both the story's symbolic as well as your scientific requirements -- then for how a 'sun' or sun-like object might 'rise in the west' in order to fulfill Dany's prophecy?  I don't think that was just Mirri being rhetorical in order to deliver a melodramatic 'never!'

Aside from the visions, another interpretation I kind of like is that she is referring to the light of civilization, hinting that Essos' time as the center of human growth has ended and that focus may shift westwards again towards unknown lands across the Sunset Sea.

 I'm also not cempletely writing off the possibility that MMD was just saying "never" with flourishes, though.

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3 hours ago, hiemal said:

They don't literally reverse, but if you define east by relationship with magnetic north than they are reversed when that goes is my point

 

They do, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

But I see what you mean, If one defines the east using a magnetic compass, the east and west can be interchanged. Anyway, it's not the same as change of cardinal points, but a change of a convenient frame.

3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I'm curious; what's your interpretation -- fulfilling both the story's symbolic as well as your scientific requirements -- then for how a 'sun' or sun-like object might 'rise in the west' in order to fulfill Dany's prophecy?  I don't think that was just Mirri being rhetorical in order to deliver a melodramatic 'never!'

I don't think we need to fulfill any scientific requirements. Trying to fit a scientific reality into the story will just ruin it and produce further confusion. So, forget about literal suns or magnetic compasses and try to understand the meaning behind the words.

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41 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

I don't think we need to fulfill any scientific requirements. Trying to fit a scientific reality into the story will just ruin it and produce further confusion. So, forget about literal suns or magnetic compasses and try to understand the meaning behind the words.

I have an idea.  What's your 'understanding of the meaning behind [those particular] words'?

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On 3/16/2017 at 11:13 PM, Frey family reunion said:

As for the magic that could seize a comet and slowly drag it into the planet's orbit, I would expect it would have taken a large scale sacrifice of many mystical bloodlines.  Hmm, perhaps something called the Doom of Valyria?

 

I like this. The comet passed overhead at the conception of Aegon VI then less than twenty years later it is seen again. I suspect the Singers were responsible for the initial, jacked-up seasons and could be they had a hand in the Doom through the power of Song. (At least the Singers would have tried to balance a long Summer ) Their songs are magic, imo.

What I'm getting at is Bran's though on the Singers - 

Quote

Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sings sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

The Singers would sing sad songs... of the earth. A song to move the heavens and earth? 

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On 3/17/2017 at 11:58 PM, hiemal said:

Aha! The aurora borealis! Electromagnetism again.

Well! I have a tinfoil about electromagnetic charge and the Others. The blue lights in the eyes of the white walkers and the wights along with the fight between Waymar and the white walker in the prologue of AGoT makes up most of this theory. After Waymar's sword breaks it is described, "the end splintered and twisted like a tree struck by lightning." 

So I'm thinking of a magical electromagnetism, but I've never connected that with the comet although it makes a certain sense. A large burst of energy up north could draw in a celestial orb. 

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