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CornishDornish

Danerys is Ned Stark's bastard daughter

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Posted (edited)

I don't know if this has already been discussed on here but Secrets of the Citadel recently uploaded a three part series which examines the theory that Ned fathered a child with Ashara Dayne however the child is not Jon but Dany.
It makes for hefty viewing (all three videos combined nearly an hour) so I'll put some of the points that she made that really stuck out to me. I understand that this theory does rely on a few assumptions such as Jon being the child of Raeghar and Lyanna Stark and that Jon Arryn only wanted the Mad King disposed not the entire Targaryns. But yeah, I'm not seeing any major holes in this theory so far.

 

TL;DW version

We know from Arianne's chapter in Feast that house Dayne does produce children that have the classical Valyrian features (silver hair, purple-ish eyes). So Dany having these features does not prove in itself that she is the mad kings daughter.

It's obvious that Dany's early years are incredibly vague and the stuff we do know is from her dead brother Viserys who was very young when Dany was born. It's assumed that her mother was Queen Rhaella yet there is noone left alive to verify that. Rhaella died in childbirth - but did she? There was huge storm around that time that smashed the remaining loyalist fleet and this is what could have killed Rhaella. 

The theory goes is that Ned conceived Dany with Ashara during Roberts Rebellion. Ned being a man of honour married her in secrecy (probably in front of a weirwood). After the tower of joy incident he couldn't bring back two bastards, one was bad enough let alone another one that "looked" like a Targ.

Therefore Ned and Ashara had to do something. Either Ashara really did commit suicide or she faked her own death with the help of Ned and smuggled her infant daughter out of Dorne and into Dragonstone with the help of Jon Arryn.

Jon Arryn would not refuse Ned Stark's call for help as he regarded both Ned and Robert as the sons he never had. Yet at the same time he didn't want to see the Stark-Baratheon-Tully alliance crumble but neither did he have any particular beef with the Targs it was just the Mad King he wanted removed. So it was actually Jon Arryn pulling strings abroad, possibly with the help of Illyrio and Varys, to protect Dany and Viserys.

Any thoughts?

Edited by CornishDornish

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I'm glad I just recently read the books and haven't had 20 years to overthink things.  I wonder if GRRM finds this overthinking amusing (mostly I imagine that he resents the internet for the prevalence of R+L=J and thus has no motivation to write his original story at all).  Personally, I don't buy it.  I think Daenerys is the stormborn.  Round this forum though everyone was swapped at birth and everyone is a secret Targaryen, and more than quite a few people are glamoured to look like someone else, and almost everyone is coming back from the dead.

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A thread about these videos was posted about an hour ago; that thread is still on the front page of this forum. And yes, the theory of N+A=D has been discussed on this forum before.

As to the theory, when exactly during RR does Ned find the time to break away from war to hook up with Ashara? The only chance I see is when he stops by Starfall to leave Dawn with House Dayne. But I don't think that lines up properly with the timeline of Dany's birth. Overall, no. I don't think this theory is possible.

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5 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I'm glad I just recently read the books and haven't had 20 years to overthink things.  I wonder if GRRM finds this overthinking amusing (mostly I imagine that he resents the internet for the prevalence of R+L=J and thus has no motivation to write his original story at all).  Personally, I don't buy it.  I think Daenerys is the stormborn.  Round this forum though everyone was swapped at birth and everyone is a secret Targaryen, and more than quite a few people are glamoured to look like someone else, and almost everyone is coming back from the dead.

And the entire series will end with Bran waking up one morning and saying, "Wow, what a crazy dream that was. Now lemme go climb this tower." The End. It is known.

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20 minutes ago, Red Man Racey said:

And the entire series will end with Bran waking up one morning and saying, "Wow, what a crazy dream that was. Now lemme go climb this tower." The End. It is known.

I actually thought the whole "St. Elsewhere" ending where it's just Bran looking at a snow globe would be the worst possible ending, and then I read the season 7 leaks for the tv series.  I'm perfectly happy if TWOW comes out and is only a paragraph long.  "Winter came.  The others killed everyone.  Sorry for the wait.  The end."

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Yeah, there's another thread about those same videos. Just because someone made a video about their theory doesn't make it true. Just like writing it down wouldn't make it true. 99.9% of theories about ASOIAF are going to turn out to be wrong, even some of the really, really good ones.

I say this as a theorist who knows my own theories are probably wrong too.

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Not a chance. This is a pet theory of one of my favorite ASOIAF you tubers Preston Jacobs that drives me nuts every time he defends it.

A lot of people were there for her birth. Her damn nickname Stormborn is given to her because the manner of her birth is so well known.

Now, one theory I do buy into regarding N+A is that Jon was actually their child, and Rhaegar and Lyanna's kid is Young Griff. Real baby Aegon was actually killed by the Mountain. Ashara is Septa Lemore.

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Sorry, does the theory answer one, so often overlooked, yet I think important question: what's the point?

So, Ned and Ashara had a daughter, and the kid is passed off as a Targaryen daugher - why? Why not as a natural daughter of Eddard Stark and "I Don't Want To Talk About It"? Or why not as a Dayne bastard? Why?

I don't quite follow your point of Rhaella possibly dying on a ship. If she did, why should everyone believe she died in childbirth?

All in all: meh. And I'm being generous.

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Timeline rules this out. Targs fled to Dragonstone before Ned even got to the ToJ.

Also Dany as Rhaegar's secret daughter is equally implausible but way cooler.

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2 hours ago, Lord Rahvin said:

Comon...really. do I have to watch these?

*soothing, motherly voice* Of course not. No one can make you do anything you don't want to do. 

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Ned + Ashara was a smokescreen for Brandon + Ashara.

Even Kevan Lannister calls Dany "Stormborn" and I don't think he heard it from Viserys.

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Forbid anyone argue the logic of a youtube video designed to be clickbait.

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2 hours ago, AegonBlackfyreVI said:

Now, one theory I do buy into regarding N+A is that Jon was actually their child, and Rhaegar and Lyanna's kid is Young Griff. Real baby Aegon was actually killed by the Mountain. Ashara is Septa Lemore.

One?  Actually they all belong to the 99.9% mentioned earlier.  ;)

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2 hours ago, AlesterFlorentReborn said:

Even if shes a secret bastard or something, wouldnt it make more sense for her to be r+l's?

Yes. She can't be The Dragon that was Promised unless she is a daughter or granddaughter of Aerys and Rhaella. Not to mention tht whole dragon-hatching and dragon-riding thing.

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Dany can not be Lyanna's since we know she was dead well before Dany was born 9unless another switch.

However i do have a weird idea that i have had since I first read the books. Dragon riders must have BOTH Targ AND Stark blood.

If we assume Jon is L+R then he is No 2

Dany could be Rhaella plus Ned.  (or Jon is).  Think on this.

Ned could have helped Rhaella to escape  as he arrived in KL and saw what Robert tolerated. It fits with his personality eg trying to save Cersai. In such a case one thing might well lead to another as a grateful Rhaella clung to him - like Sam and Gilly. Dany was born just 9 months after the escape from KL. Any male that Rhaella encountered along the way could have been Dany's father.

However i think Dany's MOTHER must have been a Targ - otherwise she could not have mothered the dragons.

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3 minutes ago, Luddagain said:

However i do have a weird idea that i have had since I first read the books. Dragon riders must have BOTH Targ AND Stark blood.

What? Why? Past Targaryens rode dragons with no Stark blood.

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The reticent

We do not know there was no Stark blood in the original dragon riders. Pretty far fetched i know so I am not saying I believe it but it has crossed my mind. Many Starks have gone wandering and there is no reason to assume that they did not travel to Essos and meet a Valerian or 50. indeed while names and sound can be very deceptive the name targaryan could be (S)targ(K) aryan ie blond Starks. 

 

However I do think that the Starks were responsible for the Doom (or closely associated in some way).  Think that the ORIGINAL sword Ice disappeared about the same time as the Doom - Brandon the shipwright ???????

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