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CornishDornish

Danerys is Ned Stark's bastard daughter

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Actually Reticent I would go a tad further and say that skin changing ability is essential to be a dragon rider, possibly in a modified form.

I think I will post a new topic on this

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It would make Ned Stark a contender a contender for worst father of the series.

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49 minutes ago, Luddagain said:

However i do have a weird idea that i have had since I first read the books. Dragon riders must have BOTH Targ AND Stark blood.

 


Huh? So Aegon the Conquerer, all of his descendants, and all of his ancestors were half Starks?

OK, this whole hidden identity theme has officially ran way too rampant.

If this had a chance of being true, I would  snip my berries, and toss them onto a brazier. Life as an eunuch would be much more enticing than finding out this was so.

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Would kind of be funny if she was a bastard, with her inflated ego and all her ridiculous titles. If she found out she was a bastard of the usurpers dog she would jump from the same tower Ashara did.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Darkstream said:


Huh? So Aegon the Conquerer, all of his descendants, and all of his ancestors were half Starks?

OK, this whole hidden identity theme has officially ran way too rampant.

If this had a chance of being true, I would  snip my berries, and toss them onto a brazier. Life as an eunuch would be much more enticing than finding out this was so.

As a matter of fact, I'm going to raise the stakes. If this turned out to be true, I would relinquish my self appointed styling as Lord Commander of the GRRM's gaurd, and pledge my services to d$d, with the declaration that they are the finest story tellers that there is, ever was, and ever will be.

And for anyone who is familiar with my stance on the show and the d's, you know that would be far more painful for me than castration.

Edited by Darkstream

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2 hours ago, Luddagain said:

Dany can not be Lyanna's since we know she was dead well before Dany was born 9unless another switch.

Nah, we dont actually know, the timeline is shitty. 

2 hours ago, Luddagain said:

However i do have a weird idea that i have had since I first read the books. Dragon riders must have BOTH Targ AND Stark blood.

If we assume Jon is L+R then he is No 2

Dany could be Rhaella plus Ned.  (or Jon is).  Think on this.

Ned could have helped Rhaella to escape  as he arrived in KL and saw what Robert tolerated. It fits with his personality eg trying to save Cersai. In such a case one thing might well lead to another as a grateful Rhaella clung to him - like Sam and Gilly. Dany was born just 9 months after the escape from KL. Any male that Rhaella encountered along the way could have been Dany's father.

However i think Dany's MOTHER must have been a Targ - otherwise she could not have mothered the dragons.

Valyrians before the doom. 

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Posted (edited)

No to Ned as Dany's father.  He's a godly man don't forget.  Nobody has to snip their berries. 

Ned names the children of his body here:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII

"My son Bran …"

To her credit, Cersei did not look away. "He saw us. You love your children, do you not?"

Robert had asked him the very same question, the morning of the melee. He gave her the same answer. "With all my heart."

"No less do I love mine."

Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon's life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would.

 

Jon is a Stark but he is not Ned's son.  Some people think that Dany might be Rhaegar's half-sister and that Ashara is her mother by Aerys; having a reputation for such dalliances.

There might be a hint of the Daynes when Dany dreams of the line of kings holding pale swords, possibly her ancestors going back to Essos:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

"… want to wake the dragon …"

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

 

 

This is part of the dragon dream where she wakes the dragon.

Edited by LynnS

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You are wrong ,Jaime Lannister is Dany's father . This is known . With Jaime being the bastard son of Aerys and Joanna  he fulfills his half of the PWWP.  He felt pity for Rhaella after her rape by Aerys , he probably comforted her .

I know no proof , crackpot , tinfoil , nonsense .

A LITTLE NONSENSE NOW AND THEN RELISHED BY THE WISES MEN .LOL

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He he, no I won't watch the video and just because he makes videos about what he thinks doesn't give his theories any more weight than any others. I have listened to some of them and most of them are based on something he assumes happened but we didn't read about and you know he really really stretches it sometimes, sometimes so much that I switch off but then again I do find him amusing at other times.
But back to the subject. Dany could be a bastard as we don't know for sure that she is who she is presented to be, I have always personally wondered that we don't have any real proof of her origin story. I'm not a Dany fan and I get tired of her over-inflated ego and 'taking back what is hers' when it never was hers to begin with and never would have been hers if the Targaryens had stayed in power. I'd kinda like her to get knocked off her self-appointed pedestal and finding out she's not who she thinks she is would do that. However, if she is a bastard, she is not Ned Stark's bastard.

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13 hours ago, LynnS said:

No to Ned as Dany's father.  He's a godly man don't forget.  Nobody has to snip their berries. 

Ned names the children of his body here:

Jon is a Stark but he is not Ned's son.  Some people think that Dany might be Rhaegar's half-sister and that Ashara is her mother by Aerys; having a reputation for such dalliances.

There might be a hint of the Daynes when Dany dreams of the line of kings holding pale swords, possibly her ancestors going back to Essos:

 

This is part of the dragon dream where she wakes the dragon.

Still allows b+a=j and r+l=d, not that i am a believer. 

Edited by AlesterFlorentReborn

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Daenerys is the daughter of Queen Rhaella and King Aerys II Targaryen.  Her birth was witnessed on Dragonstone.  Qaithe herself calls her "Daenerys Targaryen".  The dragons know her for who she is, a Targaryen.  She possesses those physical traits collectively known as the "blood of the dragon" (silver-blonde hair, fine features, purple eyes, very beautiful) which are recessive traits and unlikely to come from someone who is half Stark.  She is not only a dragon rider, but a dragon hatcher and could become the first person to bond three dragons to her.

No, she is not the daughter of a Stark.  She is the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella.  The Undying in Qarth referred to her as the "Child of Three" proving she comes from House Targaryen, whose sigil is a 3 headed dragon.  I don't think her blood is polluted with Stark blood at all. 

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2 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Daenerys is the daughter of Queen Rhaella and King Aerys II Targaryen.  Her birth was witnessed on Dragonstone.  Qaithe herself calls her "Daenerys Targaryen".  The dragons know her for who she is, a Targaryen.  She possesses those physical traits collectively known as the "blood of the dragon" (silver-blonde hair, fine features, purple eyes, very beautiful) which are recessive traits and unlikely to come from someone who is half Stark.  She is not only a dragon rider, but a dragon hatcher and could become the first person to bond three dragons to her.

No, she is not the daughter of a Stark.  She is the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella.  The Undying in Qarth referred to her as the "Child of Three" proving she comes from House Targaryen, whose sigil is a 3 headed dragon.  I don't think her blood is polluted with Stark blood at all. 

I said nothing about her having Stark blood.  I'm not sure where you are getting that idea.  Yes she's the daughter of Aerys Targaryen and quite possibly the daughter of Ashara Dayne.  The Targaryens are the only surviving dragon lords; they are imports from Essos and the only surviving dragon riders that we know of.   The Daynes could be as much dragon blooded at the Targs. 

Don't forget that Drogon was with Dany when she went to the Undying.  She is addressed as the 'mother of dragons' and Drogon is addressed as the "child of three".

If Dany is the first person capable of hatching healthy dragons in a long time; why have the Targaryens been failing?  Maybe it's all that inbreeding.   Perhaps keeping the bloodline pure is a conceit and a mistake. The Targs my not be the only old valyrian stock to produce blond and silver haired children with eyes the color of amethyst, tourmaline and jade.  But so far only the Dayne's are associated with pale swords.

If she is the daughter of Ashara, it means she wasn't born at Dragonstone but likely at King's Landing.  Martin has already said that Ashara wasn't pinned down at Starfall.  It's just as likely that she was at court and that Aerys couldn't resist such a beauty.  She would have been kept there when it became obvious that she was pregnant and the babe taken from her an hidden by who else? Varys who seems to know where all the bastards are hidden probably in the Orphan Boats with their carvings, painted doors and lemon trees.  

King's Landing is subject to ferocious summer storms which might account for one discrepancy since Dragonstone is known for it's autumn storms. 

If Elia lost her life giving birth; it's at least possible that the child died as well.  Viserys a boy of 9 is not likely to have been attending his mother's bedchamber; but it is possible that someone (Varys) lied to him about it and since the mother is dead; they must split up and go into hiding.  For the lie to work; both Viserys and Dany have to believe it is true. 

Viserys is sent over the narrow sea to basically fend for himself and Dany doesn't join up with him until she is 4 or 5, has developed language (old valyrian and the common tongue btw) but is still flexible with autobiographical memory and can be told what her life story has been and think it a real memory.

Of course, if this is true, then we are getting into awkward territory because then it also means that Jon isn't the son or Rheager and Lyanna, since Dany would be older than we are given to know and she is born 8 or 9 months after Jon; who must also then be older.  

It would mean that if there was a child in the Tower of Joy; it's most likely to be Aegon also switched out by who else (Varys) and sent into hiding.   It would make a lot more sense to have three Kingsguard protecting Aegon than anyone else. 

A child that Ned takes with him to Starfall and then swaps out for Jon.  Lyanna is not there having possible given birth the day that Robert won the battles of Summerhall.  That means that Ned was travelling from the Vale to Winterfell and crossed paths with her at the Quiet Isle, where she died and Jon was born amidst salt and smoke.   It also means that Jon was conceived shortly after the Tourney at Harrenhall.

But now we are getting into assumptions and the socially unacceptable discussion of the one who's name can't be mentioned.   So take it or leave it, whatever you prefer.

Edited by LynnS

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On 17. 03. 2017. at 9:32 PM, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Sorry, does the theory answer one, so often overlooked, yet I think important question: what's the point?

So, Ned and Ashara had a daughter, and the kid is passed off as a Targaryen daugher - why? Why not as a natural daughter of Eddard Stark and "I Don't Want To Talk About It"? Or why not as a Dayne bastard? Why?

I don't quite follow your point of Rhaella possibly dying on a ship. If she did, why should everyone believe she died in childbirth?

All in all: meh. And I'm being generous.

:agree:This, basically.

Waaaay to many witnesses saw Rhaella during her 9-month long pregnacy, it's impossible to stage a con this large. Viserys, for example, who was with his mother in KL and later on a ship to Dragonstone, never questions it.

And even if Ned and Ashara had a daughter, there are millions of ways to hide her parentage - and "pass her off of Targ princess" is probbaly the least believable of them.

 

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I will never understand why people want to make Dany's identity/ancestry this complicated thing. There are just too many holes. Viserys is one issue. The fact that there seems to be multiple witnesses to Dany's birth is another. And also if Dany is Ned's why would Ned take her to be raised with Viserys. That makes no sense. Leave her in Dorne. There is absolutely no reason to take her to Dragonstone. Bastards are not a big a deal in Dorne. No one cares about a Dayne bastard. What would be the point of putting her in more danger by passing her off a Targ princess. While don't consider particularly cunning, he's not that stupid. 

Edited by Maxxine

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Admittedly I only made it halfway through the videos before I bailed.  I found the theory to be interesting but far from convincing.  The problem with it and with many of the more outlandish theories is that they proceed from the idea that virtually everything that GRRM has written has been a lie, almost no one is who he says that they are.  GRRM is very careful with this sort of thing.  He has characters that openly lie (like Littlefinger) and then he has characters who, as I have seen him say, may not have a reliable memory of certain events (Sansa is an example he gave).  Unless and until I see proof of it I'm going to assume that GRRM has told us the truth, Dany is who she says that she is.

 

On the subject broached of what GRRM thinks about all this I don't think for a second that the fans have forced him into R+L=J or anything else.  I do think that he is, or should be, thrilled that the Fans of ASOIAF care enough to set up these websites and endlessly discuss and debate the books.

BTW, I really like the theory that the Targaryen genetic traits, silver blonde hair and deep purple eyes are recessive.  I think that is very important as Jon, unless we are to assume he isn't a product of R+L doesn't look at all like a Targaryen (and IIRC GRRM has all but confirmed that that theory is true).  Dany of course looks Targaryen and her birth as "The Stormborn" fits the timeline perfectly, you don't have to juggle anything.  Occam's Razor works perfectly here, the simplest solution is probably the correct one, Dany is who GRRM, Viserys, Varys, Illyrio Robert, Eddard Stark and all the rest say and think that she is.  Varys in particular seems to have gone to great lengths to keep her alive, always seeming to get word to her before an assassination attempt.  Why bother if you know she's a fake and you plan on popping out the real heir when you are ready?

Edited by Byfort of Corfe

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4 hours ago, Maxxine said:

I will never understand why people want to make Dany's identity/ancestry this complicated thing. There are just too many holes. Viserys is one issue. The fact that there seems to be multiple witnesses to Dany's birth is another. And also if Dany is Ned's why would Ned take her to be raised with Viserys. That makes no sense. Leave her in Dorne. There is absolutely no reason to take her to Dragonstone. Bastards are not a big a deal in Dorne. No one cares about a Dayne bastard. What would be the point of putting her in more danger by passing her off a Targ princess. While don't consider particularly cunning, he's not that stupid. 

Playing devil's advocate for just a minute here.

We don't have any accounts from eye witnesses to Dany's birth. 

Viserys wouldn't know one baby from another.

But even these still don't change that Ned could not and would not be Dany's father. Even if she weren't a Targ princess, GRRM's statement about when she was born would still hold and there is no way Ned was in Dorne at the right time for the conception. It would have to be about a month before Jon was born and he didn't get there until or after Jon's birth. Nor would Ashara have been roaming the war zones. Moving around Dorne, sure but not taking a leisurely ride through the battlegrounds in hopes of bumping into Ned. Her family were staunchly pro-Targ. She would have been captured and used as a hostage.

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7 hours ago, LynnS said:

I said nothing about her having Stark blood.  I'm not sure where you are getting that idea. 

You obviously didn't read any of the posts above the one you quoted, because that's exactly what was proposed.

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4 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

You obviously didn't read any of the posts above the one you quoted, because that's exactly what was proposed.

She tagged me specifically on another post I made.  I was responding to the content of her post from that context.  So obviously I read her post and she read mine.

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No, no, no.

Ned's first time gettin jiggy was when he knocked Cat up....with Sansa.

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