Iron Fist [SPOILERS - after page 3]

[Myrddin]

Iron Tin(foil)?

[RedEyedGhost]

Iron Origamist

[RumHam]

I'm too lazy to find the general Marvel Netflix thread, but they announced The Defenders comes out August 18th. 

[red snow]

On 04/04/2017 at 7:49 PM, RumHam said:

I'm too lazy to find the general Marvel Netflix thread, but they announced The Defenders comes out August 18th. 

Maybe I'll have finished Iron Fist by then! I'm currently on episode 5. Clearly it's not a "must watch" for me but it's mildly entertaining in a mediocre way. They've taken Danny Rand's character in a really odd way by making him some weird man-child and the shift from the siblings trying to kill him/bury him in legal troubles, to uptight straight-people rolling their eyes at the man-child is a bit sudden. Episode 4 felt a bit like "elf" with Rand as Will Ferrel and the siblings as James Caan.

The odd thing is despite it being a strange choice for the lead of this show, I actually have high expectations for Rand in the Defenders now. Because they are all going to look at him as the oddball and I think a lot of comedy could come from Rand in his own behaviour and the others reacting to him. Basically, Rand may turn out to be the Hulk of the Defenders. A bit iffy on his own but a highlight within the team.

It seems like Netflix are stepping up their production with the Marvel shows. Punisher is already filming and Daredevil S3 and JJ S2 have entered production. I guess this gives them more time to come up with ideas for Cage and Iron Fist . Maybe if they work well toghether in "Defenders" they'll try "Heroes for Hire" and add Colleen Wing and Misty to the team. Although I think Luke Cage could still carry his own show for a second season.

[James Arryn]

8 minutes ago, red snow said:

Maybe I'll have finished Iron Fist by then! I'm currently on episode 5. Clearly it's not a "must watch" for me but it's mildly entertaining in a mediocre way. They've taken Danny Rand's character in a really odd way by making him some weird man-child and the shift from the siblings trying to kill him/bury him in legal troubles, to uptight straight-people rolling their eyes at the man-child is a bit sudden. Episode 4 felt a bit like "elf" with Rand as Will Ferrel and the siblings as James Caan.

The odd thing is despite it being a strange choice for the lead of this show, I actually have high expectations for Rand in the Defenders now. Because they are all going to look at him as the oddball and I think a lot of comedy could come from Rand in his own behaviour and the others reacting to him. Basically, Rand may turn out to be the Hulk of the Defenders. A bit iffy on his own but a highlight within the team.

It seems like Netflix are stepping up their production with the Marvel shows. Punisher is already filming and Daredevil S3 and JJ S2 have entered production. I guess this gives them more time to come up with ideas for Cage and Iron Fist . Maybe if they work well toghether in "Defenders" they'll try "Heroes for Hire" and add Colleen Wing and Misty to the team. Although I think Luke Cage could still carry his own show for a second season.

I suspect the entire plot for Defenders will revolve around Claire's union rep being bribed to look the other way when her boss finally has enough and/or charges her for all the missing medical supplies.

[The BlackBear]

On 04/04/2017 at 7:49 PM, RumHam said:

I'm too lazy to find the general Marvel Netflix thread, but they announced The Defenders comes out August 18th. 

 

[red snow]

9 hours ago, James Arryn said:

I suspect the entire plot for Defenders will revolve around Claire's union rep being bribed to look the other way when her boss finally has enough and/or charges her for all the missing medical supplies.

Surely that's too big a story for just 8 episodes?

[red snow]

I'm on episode 8 - to be honest the show has improved once Danny is doing something other than getting his company back and Ward is quite conflicted for a Marvel character.

One thing I hope they address before embarking on the suicide mission against the Hand is why Claire hasn't considered asking one of the 3 other super powered people she hangs out with. Espcecially considering she's constantly mentioning it and giving Danny crap for having a bad plan. If you know someone who has fought the Hand before and know two people who are super strong/hard to hurt then it's just as crap not bringing it up.

It's the age old problem with comic team ups. I guess they are ignoring because this will be the set up for "defenders".

[The BlackBear]

26 minutes ago, red snow said:

One thing I hope they address before embarking on the suicide mission against the Hand is why Claire hasn't considered asking one of the 3 other super powered people she hangs out with. Espcecially considering she's constantly mentioning it and giving Danny crap for having a bad plan. If you know someone who has fought the Hand before and know two people who are super strong/hard to hurt then it's just as crap not bringing it up.

Well Luke is in prison. How well does she actually know Jessica Jones? She's not exactly welcoming, and apart from saving Luke I don't remember her being in that series much. Daredevil however is the one with the most experience against the hand and unless there's some reason we're not told should be fairly accessible. One of the promotional material for the Defenders was a Bulletin article: 'Where is the Devil of Hell's Kitchen?' So he may be MIA.

[red snow]

21 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Well Luke is in prison. How well does she actually know Jessica Jones? She's not exactly welcoming, and apart from saving Luke I don't remember her being in that series much. Daredevil however is the one with the most experience against the hand and unless there's some reason we're not told should be fairly accessible. One of the promotional material for the Defenders was a Bulletin article: 'Where is the Devil of Hell's Kitchen?' So he may be MIA.

I actually forgot Luke was in prison! She's met JJ via saving Luke but I guess JJ isn't necessarily going to get involved in a war against ninjas. We've really only seen her deal with her nemesis rather than crime-fighting so it'll be interesting to see how she winds up in Defenders.

Good point about Daredevil. Claire has mentioned how "it didn't turn out well" with Daredevil's encounter with the Hand and while he did get a beating, he certainly "won" the encounters that we've seen so maybe something else has happened off-screen?

[mormont]

The 'why don't they call X other superhero?' objection just has one answer:

Because it's a genre convention. Without it, every superhero story ever would be a massive team-up crossover and that would get boring pretty quickly. You can handwave it away or just ignore it, but that's the real answer - just like why characters in movies don't call the police, or the army, or whatever. Because the protagonist has to be the protagonist or else why are we watching a story about them?

[The BlackBear]

5 hours ago, mormont said:

Because the protagonist has to be the protagonist or else why are we watching a story about them?

I think this is the big issue. I generally wouldn't question why they aren't involving other characters. But Danny seems so outrageously incompetent, a fact that is brought up time and time again by those around him, that you do question why he is the protagonist. Davos says he's a terrible Iron Fist and he's right.

[red snow]

6 hours ago, mormont said:

The 'why don't they call X other superhero?' objection just has one answer:

Because it's a genre convention. Without it, every superhero story ever would be a massive team-up crossover and that would get boring pretty quickly. You can handwave it away or just ignore it, but that's the real answer - just like why characters in movies don't call the police, or the army, or whatever. Because the protagonist has to be the protagonist or else why are we watching a story about them?

or they couldn't have Claire Temple turn up in Iron Fist? That's what draws so much attention to the issue. If she weren't there it would be more a case of "well Danny doesn't know about Daredevil and if he did how'd he contact him". The story would still work without her.

I can accept the Avengers not being involved because Danny isn't hanging out with Pepper Potts or Agent Coulson. But if either of them were hanging out with Danny and telling him "the Hand are too dangerous" then I'd expect them to point out they know people who could help.

I know they like to have Rosario Dawson in the show as the netflic version of Fury/Coulson but in this case it really is glaring. With Luke Cage I was fine because the stakes weren't that high and to be honest Cage could handle himself in the story he was in. In JJ Claire had a smaller role and arguably calling in a guy with super hearing to deal with a guy with voice powers would have been unwise. But JJ at least had Luke Cage around.

Is it ruining the show? Of course not but I think they could have a) justified Claire not contacting Daredevil or b ) not have Claire involved in this particular plot or not draw attention to it so easily.

[The Anti-Targ]

32 minutes ago, red snow said:

or they couldn't have Claire Temple turn up in Iron Fist? That's what draws so much attention to the issue. If she weren't there it would be more a case of "well Danny doesn't know about Daredevil and if he did how'd he contact him". The story would still work without her.

I can accept the Avengers not being involved because Danny isn't hanging out with Pepper Potts or Agent Coulson. But if either of them were hanging out with Danny and telling him "the Hand are too dangerous" then I'd expect them to point out they know people who could help.

I know they like to have Rosario Dawson in the show as the netflic version of Fury/Coulson but in this case it really is glaring. With Luke Cage I was fine because the stakes weren't that high and to be honest Cage could handle himself in the story he was in. In JJ Claire had a smaller role and arguably calling in a guy with super hearing to deal with a guy with voice powers would have been unwise. But JJ at least had Luke Cage around.

Is it ruining the show? Of course not but I think they could have a) justified Claire not contacting Daredevil or b ) not have Claire involved in this particular plot or not draw attention to it so easily.

Or rather just give her a smaller role and not have her find out Danny and Colleen are going up against The Hand. If she thinks they are only dealing with local thugs its more rational for her to talk about the other heroes without it seeming incongruous that she does not suggest to brig any of them on board. But as mentioned Dare Devil is the only one who seems to be both available and reasonably acquainted with her.

[James Arryn]

2 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

I think this is the big issue. I generally wouldn't question why they aren't involving other characters. But Danny seems so outrageously incompetent, a fact that is brought up time and time again by those around him, that you do question why he is the protagonist. Davos says he's a terrible Iron Fist and he's right.

I actually wondered a few times whether we weren't seeing the result of fragmented concepts, where one writer wanted to write a slightly satirical take with Dany being the Poor Little Rich Boy who doesn't deserve to be IF and another writer wanted a traditional Protagonist Arc and we get the kind of compromised result. 

[PetyrPunkinhead]

On 4/6/2017 at 5:11 PM, James Arryn said:

I suspect the entire plot for Defenders will revolve around Claire's union rep being bribed to look the other way when her boss finally has enough and/or charges her for all the missing medical supplies.

 

On 4/7/2017 at 2:31 AM, red snow said:

Surely that's too big a story for just 8 episodes?

Well played, the both of you. This was probably funnier than anything I saw in the entirety of IFS1.

[DaveSumm]

It would have been so funny to see Danny's face when Claire says to him "hey, you know how you have a magic fist, endowed upon you for the express purpose of defeating the Hand? Well, I think you need help defeating the Hand. I know a blind guy, he has less training and no real powers that actually make him any stronger like you. And actually, I have way more faith in him."

[red snow]

10 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

 

Well played, the both of you. This was probably funnier than anything I saw in the entirety of IFS1.

the reaction to "vanilla Ice cream" should become a meme. We've all had the same thoughts as Harold when you make an effort and someone ungraciously undermines it all.

3 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

It would have been so funny to see Danny's face when Claire says to him "hey, you know how you have a magic fist, endowed upon you for the express purpose of defeating the Hand? Well, I think you need help defeating the Hand. I know a blind guy, he has less training and no real powers that actually make him any stronger like you. And actually, I have way more faith in him."

But he has a better stunt choreographer!

13 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Or rather just give her a smaller role and not have her find out Danny and Colleen are going up against The Hand. If she thinks they are only dealing with local thugs its more rational for her to talk about the other heroes without it seeming incongruous that she does not suggest to brig any of them on board. But as mentioned Dare Devil is the only one who seems to be both available and reasonably acquainted with her.

Exactly - there's ways of having her in it without raising the question of involving some of the others.

I did enjoy Claire getting angry at Danny beating the drunk guy up minutes before slipping on metal claws to punch ninjas with. I guess she only stabbed them in non-vital areas but, yeah, superheroes.

[briantw]

I really hate when they have to trip over themselves to explain why characters are unwilling to kill.  Like, it makes sense for some heroes (like Batman, whose life was ruined by his parents' murder), but Danny Rand has essentially been trained since childhood to be a killing machine.  If the Hand weren't so hilariously evil, I could maybe understand a reluctance on his part, but they are hilariously evil, and so I don't really get the logic behind not just killing them whenever possible.  

There is literally zero reason for them not to kill Gao when they have the chance.  She's a purely evil character who has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and will obviously try to kill them when she escapes.  You're not going to reform her, and she has an army of minions to break her out of custody should you try to hand her over to the police.  Just fucking off her and be done with it.

[The BlackBear]

The no killing thing, could be interestingly examined and explained as well, about not wanting to become judge, jury and executioner. There are real reasons why vigilantes killing people is not good. But instead we just get Colossus style finger wagging 'killing is wrong.'