RedEyedGhost

Iron Fist [SPOILERS - after page 3]

180 posts in this topic

My expectations were really low but this is totally watchable. 17% on Rotten Tomatoes seems way too harsh. I'm surprised how little origin story there has been so far. Also I'm a little confused because I'm almost halfway through it and they haven't introduced an older black character yet. So I have no idea who they're going to kill off for emotional impact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm 30 minutes in and this is at times one of the clunkiest things I've seen in a long time. 

'Hey how about we get a random tramp to come out and explain backstory through the power of google'

it didn't help that first action scene was pretty bad, seemed to be slow, but because Jones doesn't look like a martial artist.

ill carry on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RumHam said:

Also I'm a little confused because I'm almost halfway through it and they haven't introduced an older black character yet. So I have no idea who they're going to kill off for emotional impact.

:lol: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finished it. First of all, let me get a major complaint: 13 episodes and STILL:

THEY DIDN'T SHOW DANNY PUNCHING A GIANT DRAGON? FUCK THAT SHIT! KUN'LUN WASN'T SHOWN EITHER, NOT REALLY!

FUCK NETFLIX FOR BEING CHEAP MOTHERFUCKERS!

*Ahem*...

Now that we got that out of the way, I have to say this series was underrated by the critics; it's certainly not GREAT, but it's a good show overall. Madame Gao was already cool before, but she establishes herself as a great villain now in a part with Kilgrave and Kingpin. The relationship between the Meachums, and between them and Danny, is complicated and believable enough and it's well explored. Colleen was just great, and a reveal later in the series makes her a more complex character. Looking forward to Defenders.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

 

 

  Hide contents

THEY DIDN'T SHOW DANNY PUNCHING A GIANT DRAGON? FUCK THAT SHIT! KUN'LUN WASN'T SHOWN EITHER, NOT REALLY!

 

FUCK NETFLIX FOR BEING CHEAP MOTHERFUCKERS!

*Ahem*...

Now that we got that out of the way, I have to say this series was underrated by the critics; it's certainly not GREAT, but it's a good show overall. Madame Gao was already cool before, but she establishes herself as a great villain now in a part with Kilgrave and Kingpin. The relationship between the Meachums, and between them and Danny, is complicated and believable enough and it's well explored. Colleen was just great, and a reveal later in the series makes her a more complex character. Looking forward to Defenders.

 

Colleen was the best part of this series, imo [when that woman smiled I'd lose the thread of the narrative for a bit] That said, the dysfunction dynamics behind the Meachum's and Danny's particular add to that mix was interesting. Kudos to the actors, particularly Tom Pelphrey and Jessica Stroup. I thought, or had read way back in the day [iirc] that Danny had beat on then bear hugged the Undying to get the tatt and dipped his hands to get the Fist... but who knows what mythos Marvel/Netflix is subscribing to.

Overall, while not as bad as the critical reception for the first six episodes, I was quite disappointed with with S1.      

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

I finished it. First of all, let me get a major complaint: 13 episodes and STILL:

 

  Hide contents

THEY DIDN'T SHOW DANNY PUNCHING A GIANT DRAGON? FUCK THAT SHIT! KUN'LUN WASN'T SHOWN EITHER, NOT REALLY!

 

FUCK NETFLIX FOR BEING CHEAP MOTHERFUCKERS!

*Ahem*...

Now that we got that out of the way, I have to say this series was underrated by the critics; it's certainly not GREAT, but it's a good show overall. Madame Gao was already cool before, but she establishes herself as a great villain now in a part with Kilgrave and Kingpin. The relationship between the Meachums, and between them and Danny, is complicated and believable enough and it's well explored. Colleen was just great, and a reveal later in the series makes her a more complex character. Looking forward to Defenders.

 

Would you say it greatly improves after the first few episodes? I'm really struggling to carry on watching

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Quote

 

FUCK NETFLIX FOR BEING CHEAP MOTHERFUCKERS!

 

The Marvel shows are interesting. Marvel and ABC kick a lot of money into them, but they're mostly filmed in one location (albeit being NYC, which isn't cheap), on docks and rooftops and very ordinary sets. I wouldn't be surprised if they were the cheapest shows that Netflix makes. They're certainly not spending the same money that, say, Sense8 gets and they're certainly not spending the $7 million an episode that apparently Altered Carbon is getting.

 

Quote

 

Would you say it greatly improves after the first few episodes? I'm really struggling to carry on watching

 

I think it's wildly inconsistent. Almost all of the Netflix shows start off great and either drop off halfway through the season and never recover (DD2 and LC) or have a late-season slump but then recover (DD1 and JJ). Iron Fist is just all over the place, sometimes in the same episode.

I would say that the sixth episode (the one directed by RZA) is the best, as it's the one that got into a good groove and atmosphere and then the other directors dropped the ball on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I'm 6 episodes through and it's limp as fuck. The fights are slow, the characters are weak and the writing is mediocre. I enjoy Colleen but that's about it. Maybe it's because I watched Donnie Yen in Ip Man recently but it is really hard for me to take Finn Jones seriously as a kung fu master when he is so fucking slow. And it drives me nuts that the most interesting part of the story hasn't even featured once.

That being said, it's watchable. I just wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I don't think the critics got it wrong, I just think they underrated it's watchability. As a show compared to the 4 previous seasons on Netflix, it's pretty shitty.

Edited by Mexal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 17/03/2017 at 10:54 PM, Martell Spy said:

 I was very worried Iron Fist was going to be silly after a couple moments at the start, such as when he brawled with security at the corp, but other than a couple goofy moments that did not happen.

Not to pick on you, because I've said this many times before, but... why is everyone so deathly afraid that a show about a guy who can light up his hand and punch through walls might be a bit silly? Being too silly is bad, but so is being too serious. And I've seen enough shows and films that decided to err on the side of serious.

 

For example, best moment on this series is surely when Harold comes back to life. Completely silly, but great. Or the fight in episode 8 with Lewis Tan as the drunken Zhou Cheng. That was awesome, but yeah, silly - in the best way.

Anyway, some thoughts: no, the show isn't as bad as I feared but yes, it is very uneven. Episode 1 was fine but episode 2 felt interminable to me. Episodes 6 and 8 were fantastic but episode 10 was awful.

 

I really, really hated that they couldn't just let Colleen be a badass in her own right who got her skills from ordinary training, natural talent and dedication. No, she had to have an origin tied to Danny and be a naive dupe who was lying to Danny into the bargain. Way to undermine the character. Also, Bakuto was distractingly badly acted, in this episode in particular but really throughout. Scenes with him and Danny were really bad.

Even within episodes, you;ll be watching along quite cheerfully and then someone will drop a real clunker into the dialogue.

I found I was much more into the Meachums' storyline than Danny's. How does that happen?

ETA - probably because Tom Pelphrey and Jessica Stroup were much better than Finn Jones, I suppose. Though Jessica Henwick was great and Rosario Dawson is always amazing.

Edited by mormont

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think it's wildly inconsistent. Almost all of the Netflix shows start off great and either drop off halfway through the season and never recover (DD2 and LC) or have a late-season slump but then recover (DD1 and JJ). Iron Fist is just all over the place, sometimes in the same episode.

I would say that the sixth episode (the one directed by RZA) is the best, as it's the one that got into a good groove and atmosphere and then the other directors dropped the ball on that.

I've still only managed the first episode, and yeah it is wildly inconsistent. I remember 2 or 3 scenes where I thought 'oh i could enjoy this', and they would be immediately followed by a poorly filmed and choreographed fight scene, or some piece of dialogue that is beyond stupid. 

That there is normally a big drop off towards the end of Marvel series I'm very cautious about carrying on, as I cannot imagine it getting worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I'm 3 or 4 episodes in, maybe more, I'm not sure how many episodes have passed tbh since half the time I forget I'm watching in order to go do something productive. I just can't get into it.  Could be general comic book fatigue, could be just annoyance at a kung fu show led by a white dude.  I'm wondering if this ties in with other Marvel Netflix shows and if I'd be lost if I felt like watching JJ, or LC or DD when those shows return.  If they return.  I mean, at some point all the comic book saturation is going to fail, right?  The audience can only stand so much.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I think I'm 3 or 4 episodes in, maybe more, I'm not sure how many episodes have passed tbh since half the time I forget I'm watching in order to go do something productive. I just can't get into it.  Could be general comic book fatigue, could be just annoyance at a kung fu show led by a white dude.  I'm wondering if this ties in with other Marvel Netflix shows and if I'd be lost if I felt like watching JJ, or LC or DD when those shows return.  If they return.  I mean, at some point all the comic book saturation is going to fail, right?  The audience can only stand so much.  

There are plenty of reasons to be bored by the show, but I don't think 'racial appropriation' is a valid criticism at all. Is it more or less racist for only asians to know kung fu? Thats a dangerous area to base your reasoning. 

Either way I think my main problem with the show, which I'm now 2 episodes into, is that it doesn't seem in any way original or interesting. There doesn't seem to be any part of the story that is at least attempting to surprise me. Hes a rich kid who's parents died in a plane crash, maybe that crash was caused by Thoromir.. I don't know, but its hardly compelling considering its basically 50% of all superhero backstories. 

I don't understand why they didn't just try and come up with something new for this show instead of bringing out such a tired angle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

There are plenty of reasons to be bored by the show, but I don't think 'racial appropriation' is a valid criticism at all. Is it more or less racist for only asians to know kung fu? Thats a dangerous area to base your reasoning. 
 

Whaaaat?  Why would only asians need to know Kung Fu if they went with an Asian lead?  Either way, no it's not racist for Asians to know Kung Fu, or to be interested in it.  What even is this bullshit?  

Like I said, I'm annoyed with a white dude leading a kung fu show. There's zero reason not to have an Asian lead.  No, "because comic books" isn't a good reason.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, mormont said:
  Hide contents

I really, really hated that they couldn't just let Colleen be a badass in her own right who got her skills from ordinary training, natural talent and dedication. No, she had to have an origin tied to Danny and be a naive dupe who was lying to Danny into the bargain. Way to undermine the character. Also, Bakuto was distractingly badly acted, in this episode in particular but really throughout. Scenes with him and Danny were really bad.

I found I was much more into the Meachums' storyline than Danny's. How does that happen?

ETA - probably because Tom Pelphrey and Jessica Stroup were much better than Finn Jones, I suppose. 

Spoiler

There were definitely better ways to create some tension between Colleen and Danny than to wrap her up with the Hand. However, in the episode where she turned on them and was captured I inwardly groaned but was pleasantly surprised that despite it looking to be otherwise-- she saved herself. 

Otherwise agree on the Meachum's.

Edited by JEORDHl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Whaaaat?  Why would only asians need to know Kung Fu if they went with an Asian lead?  Either way, no it's not racist for Asians to know Kung Fu, or to be interested in it.  What even is this bullshit?  

Like I said, I'm annoyed with a white dude leading a kung fu show. There's zero reason not to have an Asian lead.  No, "because comic books" isn't a good reason.  

Its a funny assumption that a white character should be made asian because the show is about kung fu. Like somehow asians are the only people capable of doing martial arts? Or worse, all asians know kung fu, which is a problem with many movies.

Is Karate Kid allowed to have a white / black main character? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Its a funny assumption that a white character should be made asian because the show is about kung fu. Like somehow asians are the only people capable of doing martial arts? Or worse, all asians know kung fu, which is a problem with many movies.

Is Karate Kid allowed to have a white / black main character? 

 

Think the issue is more that Finn Jones is terrible at kung fu and to hide that, they have to tone down the choreography and make the editing terribly confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Mexal said:

Think the issue is more that Finn Jones is terrible at kung fu and to hide that, they have to tone down the choreography and make the editing terribly confusing.

He's terrible full stop. But yeah his action skills are pretty embarrassing. As are a lot of those on the show. Theres a bit in episode two where the kung fu teacher is attacked by her students and they were groaningly amateurish. I decided they made them students to hide the fact they had no idea how to fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Its a funny assumption that a white character should be made asian because the show is about kung fu. Like somehow asians are the only people capable of doing martial arts? Or worse, all asians know kung fu, which is a problem with many movies.

Is Karate Kid allowed to have a white / black main character? 

 

Sigh.  Wanting better representation for Asians in general is a conversation for another topic.  This Asian definitely wants to see herself represented better on screen.  In the meantime, maybe entertainment can stop co-opting Asian roles and giving them to white actors.  Maybe they can stop having white person go off to mystical unknown Asianland and come back with magical powers where only he can solve the big problem using those mystical magical Asian moves against faceless ninja Asians in order to save everyone.  Gag.  

This show is too boring to continue discussing, so you can argue your typical "More representation is actually racist" bullshit with yourself.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Dr. Pepper said:

Sigh.  Wanting better representation for Asians in general is a conversation for another topic.  This Asian definitely wants to see herself represented better on screen.  In the meantime, maybe entertainment can stop co-opting Asian roles and giving them to white actors.  Maybe they can stop having white person go off to mystical unknown Asianland and come back with magical powers where only he can solve the big problem using those mystical magical Asian moves against faceless ninja Asians in order to save everyone.  Gag.  

This show is too boring to continue discussing, so you can argue your typical "More representation is actually racist" bullshit with yourself.

 

I understand why you don't want to continue this train of thought because you know it doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. If you want more representation in movies and tv shows then great, we all want that. But why specifically this show? Why should a character that has always been white, be cast as asian simply because he knows a martial art? Is there something here I'm missing? 

Your cultural appropriation argument borders on racism itself, and I think you know it, which is why you don't want to talk about it. 

Anyway, your right the show is too boring to give it any credit for anything it does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the show was at the center of controversy right from the start.  It's strange Netflix proceeded full steam without making updates to lend a more progressive, or at least respectful vibe.  Reading about Finn Jones' attempt to defend the show's choices is pretty stomach churning, no surprise the dude quit Twitter.  This show is just a complete misstep from a franchise that has, in general, been doing really well at improving on and updating source material.

There's another issue I meant to bring up that bothered me about the episodes I saw and this Refinery article about Danny Rand's white male privilege reminded me of it:  

Quote

And then there is his clear overstepping with dojo teacher Colleen. Rand sees her putting up flyers and asks for a job. She says no and walks away. He shows up to her class. That is already grounds for getting maced in my world. She literally has to threaten to beat him with a fake-but-painful sword to get him to leave. And I’m pretty sure he flirts with her. That Rand is of sound mind and body but still thinks that he can woo Colleen without any evidence of having showered, ever, is male privilege at its finest.

There were way too many times Colleen said no about something and Danny just kept pushing through.  The show is still playing as I type this and she's again saying "I said no" and Danny is all "I know, but..."  Of course, she acquiesces because what women need is just for a man to keep at it until he finally 'convinces' her amirite. Gross, so so gross.  

Mega missteps with this show.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now