Mexal Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, mormont said: This has always been the script. If the bill passes, it proves Trump to be a brilliant negotiator. If it fails, it proves Ryan to be useless. No-lose for the White House. Yup. Bannon's stated goal was to bring down Ryan's speakership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, mormont said: This has always been the script. If the bill passes, it proves Trump to be a brilliant negotiator. If it fails, it proves Ryan to be useless. No-lose for the White House. There's still a loss for Trump either way though too. If this fails, he's burned a lot of bridges with some Republicans, and the Hill and White House will be busy attacking each other and internally about the fault. And if it passes, he gets to go through this all again with the Senate; and maybe ends up with a bill on his desk that'll likely cause a Democratic landslide in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Fez said: There's still a loss for Trump either way though too. If this fails, he's burned a lot of bridges with some Republicans, and the Hill and White House will be busy attacking each other and internally about the fault. And if it passes, he gets to go through this all again with the Senate; and maybe ends up with a bill on his desk that'll likely cause a Democratic landslide in 2018. I agree. I still think this is madness what they are doing with ACA. As one of the few people who actually uses the ACA exchanges, I would say they suck generally and are expensive if you aren't hovering right around poverty level. But, a GOP version that is as bad or worse is incomprehensible after 8 years of complaining about it. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 This is going to be interesting. https://twitter.com/AlexNBCNews/status/845278600102367233 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, Mexal said: This is going to be interesting. https://twitter.com/AlexNBCNews/status/845278600102367233 Manafort's lawyer has contacted the Intelligence Committee to say he has volunteered to be questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: Manafort's lawyer has contacted the Intelligence Committee to say he has volunteered to be questioned. Unless its under oath its meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 28 minutes ago, Fez said: There's still a loss for Trump either way though too. If this fails, he's burned a lot of bridges with some Republicans, and the Hill and White House will be busy attacking each other and internally about the fault. And if it passes, he gets to go through this all again with the Senate; and maybe ends up with a bill on his desk that'll likely cause a Democratic landslide in 2018. CNN (and I watch it because it's all news all day, did not watch it for years! Honest! ) is reporting that the campaign has now strenuously moved to "Vote for the bill, even if you hate it, you'll have another chance to vote on it after the Senate vote. The President has an amazing agenda that you love, give him this win so he can bring those other items to you! Do not cut him on his first piece of legislation!" 5 minutes ago, Fez said: Unless its under oath its meaningless. Agreed. It seems it will not be under oath and might even be in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 33 minutes ago, Fez said: There's still a loss for Trump either way though too. If this fails, he's burned a lot of bridges with some Republicans, and the Hill and White House will be busy attacking each other and internally about the fault. And if it passes, he gets to go through this all again with the Senate; and maybe ends up with a bill on his desk that'll likely cause a Democratic landslide in 2018. Trump's short political career has been spent burning bridges. To date, all his fellow Republicans have done about it is order some more wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 51 minutes ago, denstorebog said: The whole discussion about the battle to be conservative enough takes an unpleasant turn when you consider that: Paul Ryan is the face of the health care bill There's a good chance that Ryan is done if the bill goes down; in fact, Bill O'Reilly just brought up this proposal on his show. Paul Ryan and Steve Bannon really don't like each other I'm not gonna go all the way and propose that Bannon wanted this to fail to begin with (the damage to Trump's political capital is gonna be massive), but he can certainly count this as a win if it leads to the instatement of an even more conservative House leader. EDIT: And sure enough, this is now the Breitbart leading article: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/24/report-steve-bannon-says-american-health-care-act-written-insurance-industry/ No, go all the way. I was saying last week that Bannon and Breitbart's actions don't make sense unless their goal was to have this bill blow up in Ryan's face. 34 minutes ago, Fez said: There's still a loss for Trump either way though too. If this fails, he's burned a lot of bridges with some Republicans, and the Hill and White House will be busy attacking each other and internally about the fault. And if it passes, he gets to go through this all again with the Senate; and maybe ends up with a bill on his desk that'll likely cause a Democratic landslide in 2018. That was always going to happen, regardless if this bill passed or failed. Trump's victory was never going to solve all the Republican infighting, and it's more likely that it would eventually exacerbate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 45 minutes ago, mormont said: This has always been the script. If the bill passes, it proves Trump to be a brilliant negotiator. If it fails, it proves Ryan to be useless. No-lose for the White House. But what Trump repeatedly promised during the campaign was a repeal and replace of Obamacare with something that provided better coverage for less money. Even if the bill passes, it is not what Trump promised. Yet his supporters will not hold him accountable for that. He'll be able to put his spin on it, as a success that everyone loves, and any opinions to the contrary are fake news from the liberal media tryin' to tear poor old Trump down. Makes me wanna pull my hair out sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Rodney Frelinghuysen, who is the House Appropriations Chair and therefore ostensibly part of the leadership that should be whipping this bill, just announced that he'll be voting against the AHCA. I'm thinking things aren't going well in the caucus right now. I'm not convinced the bill will fail yet, but I suspect it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Blaming Ryan has certainly always been the contingency in case of failure - that's pretty intuitive even if almost the entire Trump administration didn't hate him. But to suggest that's been Bannon's plan all along is rather ridiculous. Everybody knows a defeat on their first major proposal - especially this early and on such a key aspect of his campaign - would be a body blow to the Trump presidency. Bannon may have his own nefarious agenda, but he does not want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, S John said: But what Trump repeatedly promised during the campaign was a repeal and replace of Obamacare with something that provided better coverage for less money. And if his voters don't get what Trump promised them, it's Ryan's fault - if they even care. I've heard a lot about what a great salesman Trump is and how this explains his success. It's not true. But I'll give him this: what he is great at, exceptional in fact, is taking credit when things go well and ducking the blame when things go badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, dmc515 said: Blaming Ryan has certainly always been the contingency in case of failure - that's pretty intuitive even if almost the entire Trump administration didn't hate him. But to suggest that's been Bannon's plan all along is rather ridiculous. Everybody knows a defeat on their first major proposal - especially this early and on such a key aspect of his campaign - would be a body blow to the Trump presidency. Bannon may have his own nefarious agenda, but he does not want that. Well, he certainly did prior to Trump becoming president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Independent commission anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mexal said: Well, he certainly did prior to Trump becoming president. The point was Bannon does not want such a huge political defeat for the Trump presidency. Sure, trying to use such a failure to destroy Ryan has probably always been what Bannon has viewed as making lemonade - never let a crises go to waste - but politically damaging the Trump administration in such a significant way is self-sabotage no matter how you slice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, Triskan said: There's a person named Rodney Freylinghuysen? Awesome. Funnily enough, the Freylinghuysens are one of the longest-running political dynasties in the country. They just never get talked about, probably because of how hard their name is to pronounce. But among others, there's been multiple senators, a secretary of state, and the Whig VP nomination in 1844. All dating back to this guy, Frederick, who was a fairly important guy in New Jersey in the Revolutionary War. George Washington made him a brigadier general afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 2 hours ago, mormont said: This has always been the script. If the bill passes, it proves Trump to be a brilliant negotiator. If it fails, it proves Ryan to be useless. No-lose for the White House. And this is why it is essential for everyone to brand it as TrumpCare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 2 hours ago, S John said: But what Trump repeatedly promised during the campaign was a repeal and replace of Obamacare with something that provided better coverage for less money. Even if the bill passes, it is not what Trump promised. Yet his supporters will not hold him accountable for that. He'll be able to put his spin on it, as a success that everyone loves, and any opinions to the contrary are fake news from the liberal media tryin' to tear poor old Trump down. Makes me wanna pull my hair out sometimes. Yeah, this one seems like a lose/lose for the Trumpinator either way you slice it. He also promised it would be better than the ACA and that everyone would be covered, which clearly doesn't appear to be the case. At this point, I think he's probably better off long term if it doesn't pass. I'm fine with that, as I think the country is better off if it doesn't pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Moody Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 The latest news from multiple political reporters is that Paul Ryan is going to the White House in person to tell Trump that they absolutely do not have the votes to pass it and ask what Trump wants to do. It's possible that they're actually losing rather than gaining votes at this point, as moderates realize the confirmed nays will block it and they can use the stripping of EHBs as political cover for their own nay votes. A Freedom Caucus member just suggested on Twitter that there may be more unannounced moderate nays than Freedom Caucus nays. I really didn't think this was going to get blocked, but maybe, just maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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