Ser Meryn Frey Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Joffrey was pretty crazy. Say they are all gathered in the throne room, and Joffrey orders Tywin seized, at the time of a Storm of Swords, what would happen? The Kingsguard? The Gold cloaks? Lords, knights and men-at-arms? Obviously any Lannister-loyal soldiers, knights or lords would refuse to do the king's bidding, but would they actually resist those trying to arrest him? Even though the Kingsguard are a bunch of evil hypocrites and "not true" knights, I can't see them openly not following a direct order from the monarch. I think the Kingsguard and the Gold cloaks reluctantly would arrest him. This thread is foremost about what would happen at that precise time of the arrest; not the aftermath, but of course that's a topic too. What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I think tywin would glare at the first person who tried and they would stand down. Seriously though I think noone would have done anything. but a very uncomfortable silence would descend upon the room. Maybe tywin would have taken joffrey out of the room and "educated" him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Nap time for Joff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Loras The Gay Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Two things could have happended. One: Joffrey would've been humiliated because no one would dare to arrest Twyin or Two: Twyin would've been arrested because Joffrey was the king. If the second happened the lords would see Joffrey as even more crazy and paranoid and would fear him even more, creating more chaos among the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkinDude Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 When Ned resigned as Hand, Barristan didn't run out of the room with his sword drawn. Joffrey was king, but the laws of gods and men hold that he isn't supreme until he is 16. Regardless if you see Cersei as his regent or Tywin, someone would have overruled Joffrey on this matter. For example, had Joffrey not been at the Sept of Baelor for Ned's trial, I don't believe Cersei would have allowed Ned to be beheaded. But in front of the entire city, arguing at that point was bad for everyone, which is exactly why Littlefinger put him up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastards Giant Friend Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 In this situation the answer to Varys' riddle would be the rich man, not the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 If Jofferey wanted to have Tywin arrested, he would send Kingsguard unless he was an utter idiot, but that information would be leaked to Tywin, and I do not think Tywin Lannister was someone who would sit there and do nothing, so I think the result would be a civil war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protagoras Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I think it would come down to who he ask to do it, what reasons he have for it, if he does it in public or private and most importantly - the strength of the Lannister soldiers. Certainly the Kingsguard should listen and obey, but as we have seen from Jaime "I think I can dictate what my king is allowed to do" Lannister, this might not always be the case. Then again, Mandon Moore hade no qualms with killing Tyrion (and I am convinced that order came from Joffrey as well). As for the gold cloaks, I doubt they would. Some might, but others would be too scared of what Tywin would do. Last time he showed up, they got sacked. And Lannister troops are sort of "supposed" to obey Tywin before their king. Another big issue is that Joffrey isn´t a grown-up nor have ruled for a long time. People tend to respect "ruling years" when it comes to kings. Then again, if Tywin act in a way that convinces everyone that he is crazy - the likelyhood that people will try, increases due to public support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Winter Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 4 hours ago, ShadowCat Rivers said: Nap time for Joff. Lol , this. Pycelle, I see the king is tired again. Give him some dreamwine. Everyone knows who is the true power behind the throne. Joffrey has nobody in KL who is personally loyal to him, while Tywin had plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Snowflake Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I hate Joff only a little more than Tywin.....and with that said if Joff ordered his KG to arrest his grandfather, Tywin would be arrested. The KG are sworn to obey, and when it comes down to it, Joffrey would have more power. Tywin would be committing suicide to publicly go against the king.....Joffrey could marshal most of the 7K against Tywin....Tywin would only have the loyal of most of the Westerlands, along with whatever sellswords he could muster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 14 year old Joffrey probably couldn't get away with it, but, say, a 20yo Joffrey ruling in his own right might, although I doubt he is crafty enough to pull it off without Jaime finding out about it and warning Tywin. It probably wouldn't happen out of the blue anyway, so Tywin would probably have a strong intuition that things were heading south and take steps to avoid being taken. The real question is, once he made the arrest, what would Joffrey do? Execute Tywin? Banish him? Strip him of lands and titles?That would raise all kinds of hell for the realm and House Lannister, assuming Cersei and Jaime are still alive. Most likely, he would just dismiss Tywin as hand and let him go back to CR, which wouldn't require Tywin being arrested in the first place. So in the end, I don't see Joffrey as being that big of a fool as to arrest Tywin, just send him packing, which Tywin would most likely oblige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 On 22/03/2017 at 0:56 AM, FreeWifi said: I hate Joff only a little more than Tywin.....and with that said if Joff ordered his KG to arrest his grandfather, Tywin would be arrested. The KG are sworn to obey, and when it comes down to it, Joffrey would have more power. The KG are far from a homogenous entity with the same values and motivations. It's very clear that many of the KG don't give a damn about their vows. Blount, Trant and Kettleblack would never risk it (unless they were given an enormous profit motive and assurances they could get away with it, that I doubt Joffery could provide). Loras Tyrell would only do it if the Tyrells wanted it to happen. Oakheart wasn't around, but if he were he wouldn't dare it either I don't think. Balon Swann might do it as he seems adorably honourable. As the King is underage I would imagine Swann would defer to Jaime, Tywin or Cersei, and the others would be able to justify their inaction on that basis as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 On 3/21/2017 at 10:59 AM, Ser Meryn Frey said: What say you? there would be laughter. Lots of laughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Meryn Frey Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 On 2017-03-21 at 7:15 PM, snow is the man said: I think tywin would glare at the first person who tried and they would stand down. Seriously though I think noone would have done anything. but a very uncomfortable silence would descend upon the room. Maybe tywin would have taken joffrey out of the room and "educated" him. What if Robert did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Meryn Frey said: What if Robert did it? I would assume there would have been bloodshed between Tywin's men and Robert's. No idea to know how many would be Tywin's men regardless of the color of the cloak, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Meryn Frey Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 I actually don't think the KG would refuse to obey the king's order in the presens of everyone of importance. I mean, the whole institution would lose it's purpose and value there and then. if they refused a direct kingly command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Meryn Frey Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 minute ago, LionoftheWest said: I would assume there would have been bloodshed between Tywin's men and Robert's. No idea to know how many would be Tywin's men regardless of the color of the cloak, though. So the westerners would go up against the entire realm (since Loras is there as well, loyal to Renly) to protect Tywin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 51 minutes ago, Ser Meryn Frey said: So the westerners would go up against the entire realm (since Loras is there as well, loyal to Renly) to protect Tywin? I would assume that Tywin would not allow himself to be captured without a fight and then he would flee the city as fast as possible and decry Robert as a man trying to get away from a debt by killing the debtor and go into rebellion, because that seems to be what normally happens when attacked by your liege. And maybe House Lannister would be destroyed, maybe Robert would undermine his rule to much by this and maybe it would create a massive chaos in the realm to swallow both Lannister and Baratheon. I honestly don't know, except that Tywin won't just lie down and die for the benefit of his enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Meryn Frey Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 So people would just laugh at the rightful king (Joffrey)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mormont Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 This is too much of a what if to answer. Too many questions regarding the how, why where and who is asked to arrest him. My guess is, like Varys' riddle, the person with the sword will decide who to follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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