Is Meera......

[Lord Friendzone]

1 hour ago, RhaenysB said:

I know, that's why I don't think Jon has any siblings other than Rhaenys and Aegon. I would like Daenerys to be Rhaegar's daughter, but other than that there's nothing to support such scenario. Since there's little to no chance that happens, I don't see anybody else being revealed as Jon's (twin)sister, especially not a character as marginal and insignificant to the ice and fire topic as Meera. 

At one point, I thouht it would be cool and maybe true. That would make it really icky fo a lot of people. Imagine Jaime/Cersei and then Jon/Daenerys. Although, one is toxic relationship and the other could be the exact opposite.

Books are kinda shady about her past because a lot of things doesn't add up but bunch of theories on this. She's Ashara's daughter, Lyanna's. Fake Daenerys and that stuff. Meera really is notmaking much of sense to be his twin sister.

[RhaenysBee]

16 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

At one point, I thouht it would be cool and maybe true. That would make it really icky fo a lot of people. Imagine Jaime/Cersei and then Jon/Daenerys. Although, one is toxic relationship and the other could be the exact opposite.

Books are kinda shady about her past because a lot of things doesn't add up but bunch of theories on this. She's Ashara's daughter, Lyanna's. Fake Daenerys and that stuff. Meera really is notmaking much of sense to be his twin sister.

For the record, I never ever wanted Jon and Daenerys to have a romantic relationship (regardless of whether or not they are brother and sister). It's creepy either way.

The citrus and the grass and the red door, yes. That's the only open window GRRM has to make a twin twist happen.

Ashara is someone I would cut of the books entirely. It's so boring and so stupid. She is a big nobody the dead sister of that other dead character who a lot of dead characters liked back in the day. That's Ashara. At least Rhaegar and Lyanna are kept in memory because someone always dreams or thinks or talks or obsesses about them. I cant stand all the Ashara theories. She is quaithe, she is septa Lemore, she is Daenerys's mother, she is Jon's mother, she is Aegon's mother, just no. She is dead. And she doesn't matter. At least I dearly hope. 

[Lord Friendzone]

13 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

For the record, I never ever wanted Jon and Daenerys to have a romantic relationship (regardless of whether or not they are brother and sister). It's creepy either way.

The citrus and the grass and the red door, yes. That's the only open window GRRM has to make a twin twist happen.

Ashara is someone I would cut of the books entirely. It's so boring and so stupid. She is a big nobody the dead sister of that other dead character who a lot of dead characters liked back in the day. That's Ashara. At least Rhaegar and Lyanna are kept in memory because someone always dreams or thinks or talks or obsesses about them. I cant stand all the Ashara theories. She is quaithe, she is septa Lemore, she is Daenerys's mother, she is Jon's mother, she is Aegon's mother, just no. She is dead. And she doesn't matter. At least I dearly hope. 

Creepy? I mean this is the world where aunt/nephew is not that problematic like brother/sister and even that was normal for Targaryens. Cousins marriage are happening even in our times.

There is something fishy about her childhood but to say what exactly. Many theories are around but we'll see with The Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring.

Well, she was at center of Starks affections Ned, Brandon so not that boring but rather we don't know much more about her. I love House Dayne so I might be a bit bias in this, Ashara as Quaithe is like Mance is Rhaegar ior Daario is Euron. Since we have FM and Faegon, Farya that everybody got some other identity or purpose. Sometimes things are as they are, not another identity. If Ashara is Daenerys' mother, it would matter a big deal to her, same way Lyanna to Jon or Daeny and Lyanna. They're dead but for our protagonists it would be important.

[RhaenysBee]

2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Creepy? I mean this is the world where aunt/nephew is not that problematic like brother/sister and even that was normal for Targaryens. Cousins marriage are happening even in our times.

There is something fishy about her childhood but to say what exactly. Many theories are around but we'll see with The Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring.

Well, she was at center of Starks affections Ned, Brandon so not that boring but rather we don't know much more about her. I love House Dayne so I might be a bit bias in this, Ashara as Quaithe is like Mance is Rhaegar ior Daario is Euron. Since we have FM and Faegon, Farya that everybody got some other identity or purpose. Sometimes things are as they are, not another identity. If Ashara is Daenerys' mother, it would matter a big deal to her, same way Lyanna to Jon or Daeny and Lyanna. They're dead but for our protagonists it would be important.

I know, that's not why it's creepy. I have no problem with fictional siblings having a romantic relationship, if you watched the Borgias, we were all rooting for Cesare and Lucretia weren't we? The one reason why I don't want a Jon/Daenerys romantic relationship is that I like Daenerysand I don't like Jon. Daenerys belongs with Drogo and only Drogo. I might have been able to put up with book Daario but really he is just a cheap replacement. Jon is a big no-no. 

The thing is we won't. 

It would be but it isn't. The only people who crushed on ashara are dead or 60 years old. And I don't see Barristan knowing some huge secrets about her. 

[maudisdottir]

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i read an article ( no i don't have documentation) showrunners said it was a "star wars-like situation" concerning the tower of joy

I've searched for your article but all I've ever seen is Alfie Allen calling Jon Snow's mysterious origins a "Luke Skywalker situation" - not Luke and Leia.  Luke was raised by his uncle and didn't know his real father.  That's Luke Skywalker enough to be Jon, who is destined to be a legendary warrior and play a big part in the wars to come - just like Luke - without bringing in Princess Leia-Meera.

Book Meera is obviously not Jon's twin, because she is described exactly like a crannogwoman, and show Meera is obviously not Jon's twin, unless newborn Meera was hiding under all those bloodstained sheets.  So where is the evidence for the theory other than Howland was at the ToJ and he and Ned were tight?

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" i have never but once mentioned she resembled Jon" - IronMother

all you have to do is read. 

Except you mentioned it twice.

[Onion Hound]

If that's the case Meera would be, look, and act older than Dani....the show writers/actress definitely aren't portraying her that way, imo. Seems closer to Bran in age than Jon. It would be a reach if they went there. It is odd though that Howland disappeared and the stark kids never met the reed kids...

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 3/21/2017 at 5:42 PM, Iron Mother said:

Jon's twin?  re-watching the Bran-in-the-tree episode I caught that Howland Reed was with Ned at Tower of Joy... and he resembles Jojen... Meera does not.  She looks like Jon... she's got to be there for a reason... not just Bran's wheelchair... and it makes sense to make a huge deal about Jon's origin and kind of leave Meera to the side for a moment because he is a male (important in Westeros) and heir to two of the greatest houses when it comes down to it. 

If it matters, he/they were born after Rhaegar and Elia were dead.  I think that may make them legitimate.  Spouse dying, blah blah... so the claim would be immeasurable.  The claim to Targ legacy AND Winterfell.  The South and the North.  With Jon, that is. 

I wonder if they will bust this out.

Sorry but that doesn't work.

For Jon and Meera to be twins that would mean Howland and Lyanna are their parents. That's not possible with what we know.

We know Jon's birth to within a month, based on when Dany was born. This is the author's word on the matter and as such is beyond contestation.

For Jon to be Howland's son would require Howland to stop fighting the war, know where Lyanna is, sneak there to be with her, sneak past Rhaegar and the two KG he had with him, have super-sperm that get the job done in one or two quickies, sneak back up north, rejoin the war, and travel with Ned and a group of other Northerners to go get Lyanna back...travel to Starfall for no reason...and head home with the twins but give one of his children to Ned.

If that wasn't enough to make it unlikely, please consider this: there is absolutely ZERO reason for Ned not to tell Catelyn after more than 10 years of marriage and coming to love her, that Jon is actually Howland and Lyanna's son. There's no reason she'd be nervous about knowing that, it would ease her mind, and she wouldn't be concerned about hiding it from King Robert either because he doesn't have an irrational grudge against House Reed that would put Cat's entire family at risk.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 3/27/2017 at 9:49 AM, RhaenysB said:

<snip

Ashara is someone I would cut of the books entirely. It's so boring and so stupid. She is a big nobody the dead sister of that other dead character who a lot of dead characters liked back in the day. That's Ashara. At least Rhaegar and Lyanna are kept in memory because someone always dreams or thinks or talks or obsesses about them. I cant stand all the Ashara theories. She is quaithe, she is septa Lemore, she is Daenerys's mother, she is Jon's mother, she is Aegon's mother, just no. She is dead. And she doesn't matter. At least I dearly hope. 

I'm sorry to disagree but on this one I have to. When you don't find a body in real life, it's a tragedy. When you don't find one in fiction, it's a plant.

Ashara disappears and we have no suicide note, no body, no eye-witnesses and only hearsay information from people who 1) weren't there, 2) weren't born, and heard from people who 3) weren't there and/or 4) weren't old enough to know anything was going on if they even were born.

Doesn't mean she's important, and hey, maybe she actually is dead (not from suicide but from something else), but the story has been set up to be very fishy, and I can't help thinking there's a reason for that.

For the record I don't think she's Lemore, Dany's mother, Jon's mother, or Aegon's mother. 

[RhaenysBee]

7 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I'm sorry to disagree but on this one I have to. When you don't find a body in real life, it's a tragedy. When you don't find one in fiction, it's a plant.

Ashara disappears and we have no suicide note, no body, no eye-witnesses and only hearsay information from people who 1) weren't there, 2) weren't born, and heard from people who 3) weren't there and/or 4) weren't old enough to know anything was going on if they even were born.

Doesn't mean she's important, and hey, maybe she actually is dead (not from suicide but from something else), but the story has been set up to be very fishy, and I can't help thinking there's a reason for that.

For the record I don't think she's Lemore, Dany's mother, Jon's mother, or Aegon's mother. 

Yes, you are right about that. If anybody can come up with anything to make sense of Ashara's disappearance without turning it into an unbelievable nonsensical cliché, go for it. 

I just don't think any of the existing theories have any merit, they became boring over the years and frankly, I'm 99.999999% certain we will never know what happened to her. So I'm content with dead dead. If by some miracle Winds of Winter is published, in 2019 as a best case scenario, and by some other miracle Ashara's story is resolved instead of further complicated, great. But that's a lot of miracles. 

[Iron Mother]

On 3/28/2017 at 5:12 AM, maudisdottir said:

I've searched for your article but all I've ever seen is Alfie Allen calling Jon Snow's mysterious origins a "Luke Skywalker situation" - not Luke and Leia.  Luke was raised by his uncle and didn't know his real father.  That's Luke Skywalker enough to be Jon, who is destined to be a legendary warrior and play a big part in the wars to come - just like Luke - without bringing in Princess Leia-Meera.

except a "luke skywalker situation" is null without his twin sister.  Have you seen the prequels?  Maybe you can check them out over the weekend to catch up.

Book Meera is obviously not Jon's twin, because she is described exactly like a crannogwoman, and show Meera is obviously not Jon's twin, unless newborn Meera was hiding under all those bloodstained sheets.  So where is the evidence for the theory other than Howland was at the ToJ and he and Ned were tight?

Like they didn't take little Meera into another room?  Tower of Joy looked liked a very huge place.  Hiding under the sheets is one of 150,000 possibilities.  And who can explain why they hid the child from Ned at that moment......... maybe so he could speak with his dying sister.... or IF they even did hide the child?  What if another vision shows Ned deciding Howland was trustworthy to get him to pull a bail organa raise her in secret?

[Meera resembled Jon] Except you mentioned it twice.

Thank you Hall Monitor.

getting to the end now, the show has to get rid of a lot of people to focus on the endgame.  If Meera isn't dead during or by the end of season 7, her character has something important to contribute except being Bran's wheelchair.  And House Reed has only like 2 other things with possible contributions......... Howland was very close to Ned, and he was at Tower of Joy during those most important events.

I think Meera will witness the devastation of Alderaan and get chained to a big slimy beast while wearing sexy undergarments and then bear a son going to the dark side.

IMO

 

[Lord Friendzone]

10 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

snip

Didn't Alfie only mentioned it's Stark War-ish and not just Luke. If it was meant to be Luke situation, then it is like Jon's, meaning only this character. Raised by uncle and father is someone else, someone who is described as a terrible humain being. Simply Jon was born at ToJ and people are trying to put different twists on this. Meera ha green eyes unlike typical Stark brown, she looks nothing like especially Stark or Targaryen. Meera might survive this whole thing, but doesn't mean it has anything to do with her parentage, more likely her character. People presented enough evidence to disprove this.

[maudisdottir]

12 hours ago, Iron Mother said:

Thank you Hall Monitor.

Dude you're the one telling other people they can't read because you said "but once". If you weren't such a dick about it I might not have said anything, but you're rude and seem to think you have some superior understanding. You don't.

Your Meera scenario is ludicrous. She was in the scene right before - don't you think there would be a link between her and the ToJ scene if she had anything to do with it? Why didn't Lyanna whisper "his name is [X] and HER name is" and "you have to protect THEM" and "if Robert finds out he'll kill THEM". But it was all about Jon, because he was the only baby there.

I have seen all the Star Wars movies and I know who Luke Skywalker is. Alfie didn't say a Luke and Leia situation, he said Luke Skywalker. I mean, to what extent is Jon's story supposed to mirror Luke's? Is he going to get a couple of robot sidekicks as well as a twin?

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 3/29/2017 at 2:44 AM, RhaenysB said:

Yes, you are right about that. If anybody can come up with anything to make sense of Ashara's disappearance without turning it into an unbelievable nonsensical cliché, go for it. 

I just don't think any of the existing theories have any merit, they became boring over the years and frankly, I'm 99.999999% certain we will never know what happened to her. So I'm content with dead dead. If by some miracle Winds of Winter is published, in 2019 as a best case scenario, and by some other miracle Ashara's story is resolved instead of further complicated, great. But that's a lot of miracles. 

Well I have an idea I'm working on but I'm not sure if it would count as not being an unbelievable nonsensical cliche. (how do I get the accent mark above the e?). And it's about 95% unsupported by text, which makes for a higher margin of error than I usually find comfortable for my crackpots.

[Iron Mother]

7 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

Dude you're the one telling other people they can't read because you said "but once". If you weren't such a dick about it I might not have said anything, but you're rude and seem to think you have some superior understanding. You don't.

Your Meera scenario is ludicrous. She was in the scene right before - don't you think there would be a link between her and the ToJ scene if she had anything to do with it? Why didn't Lyanna whisper "his name is [X] and HER name is" and "you have to protect THEM" and "if Robert finds out he'll kill THEM". But it was all about Jon, because he was the only baby there.

I have seen all the Star Wars movies and I know who Luke Skywalker is. Alfie didn't say a Luke and Leia situation, he said Luke Skywalker. I mean, to what extent is Jon's story supposed to mirror Luke's? Is he going to get a couple of robot sidekicks as well as a twin?

 

a girl is a hall monitor.  that is all this thread needs to be about.

[Iron Mother]

19 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Didn't Alfie only mentioned it's Stark War-ish and not just Luke. If it was meant to be Luke situation, then it is like Jon's, meaning only this character.

but then you went on to say Meera doesn't look Stark OR Targaryen because she has green eyes.

maybe she's a mix?  Targs have exotic eyes.

mlol this forum is out of control

[RhaenysBee]

9 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Well I have an idea I'm working on but I'm not sure if it would count as not being an unbelievable nonsensical cliche. (how do I get the accent mark above the e?). And it's about 95% unsupported by text, which makes for a higher margin of error than I usually find comfortable for my crackpots.

At least it's a fresh approach and not beating the existing crackpots. That's always good. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

13 hours ago, RhaenysB said:

At least it's a fresh approach and not beating the existing crackpots. That's always good. 

You have such faith in me. I'm not sure it is entirely fresh considering how many years we've all had to think up fun alternatives. 

[Lord Friendzone]

On 31. 3. 2017 at 7:53 AM, Iron Mother said:

but then you went on to say Meera doesn't look Stark OR Targaryen because she has green eyes.

maybe she's a mix?  Targs have exotic eyes.

mlol this forum is out of control

She has no traits that they do and on top of it she has green eyes uncharecteristic to Starks in the books. Jon at least has traits from his Stark side and in nature partially like Rhaegar melancholic, somber, moody and some people argue he has certain facial features of Rhaegar. Depends on how you see it.

Forum is not our of control but just tired of crackpot theories that are clearly not true based on evidence from the books and show. Jon is the only baby born at ToJ and sometimes things are just that simple in GoT. No need to overcomplicate it with twins, switches and different identities.

[Iron Mother]

On 4/1/2017 at 5:46 AM, Lord Friendzone said:

She has no traits that they do and on top of it she has green eyes uncharecteristic to Starks in the books. Jon at least has traits from his Stark side and in nature partially like Rhaegar melancholic, somber, moody and some people argue he has certain facial features of Rhaegar. Depends on how you see it.

Forum is not our of control but just tired of crackpot theories that are clearly not true based on evidence from the books and show. Jon is the only baby born at ToJ and sometimes things are just that simple in GoT. No need to overcomplicate it with twins, switches and different identities.

i can't break these paragraphs for some reason.  I said "out of control' because i was laughing and thought it was funny.  All of it.

Do we REALLY know so much about Meera to proclaim "she does not have characteristics of Rhaegar?"

Lastly, how can anyone who has not even seen future episodes or book chapters make the claim a theory is "over-complicating things" unless they, themselves, are the author?

At this point I am arguing the devil's advocate because (return to beginning of post) i find it hilarious for a war of a new king to break out when "unsound" or "over-complicated" suggestions appear on the screen. 

- It's funnier than Gendry time-traveling in a rowboat
- better than Tyrion being Joanna and Aerys' secret love child in the desperate hunt for a third dragon
- and it is for sure better the cult of azor ahai who name drop those words it in any topic because they secretly believe doing so makes them a Super Initiate in the SOIF and no one else is worthy to converse with that level of smarts in this forum.

Bran is going to warg the Ice Dragon, Sansa used moon tea on the seed of Ramsey and the Red Lady will reveal her breasts at least once more before the end of the show.  Those are immutable facts.  wE NEED NO LONGER DEBATE.  aCCEPT AND THRIVE.

[Lord Friendzone]

4 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

Do we REALLY know so much about Meera to proclaim "she does not have characteristics of Rhaegar?"

She looks like Crannogmen.

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Lastly, how can anyone who has not even seen future episodes or book chapters make the claim a theory is "over-complicating things" unless they, themselves, are the author?

Because it is. You're obviously stubborn to realize it. Evidence from the books , show, leaks suggest Jon and only him were born at ToJ. Meera is a minor character related to Bran's arc. That's it and if it wasn't for their similar hair in GoT, nobody would be talking about. I've seen articles about satting it basically as the only evience. At this point. I'd rather believe Aegon is truly Aegon and not fake copy of him.

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- It's funnier than Gendry time-traveling in a rowboat
- better than Tyrion being Joanna and Aerys' secret love child in the desperate hunt for a third dragon

Tyrion being a secret Targaryen is more plausible than this based on books evidence and show. If they want to go there and like I hope they won't because to me it cheapens him and his relationship with Tywin. People for this theory would disagree and but there is a textual evidence for this.

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- and it is for sure better the cult of azor ahai who name drop those words it in any topic because they secretly believe doing so makes them a Super Initiate in the SOIF and no one else is worthy to converse with that level of smarts in this forum.

Like George said prophecy is tricky but people love to talk about it because they think they find out who it is and for their favourites to be THE person to save the universe. I'm of that believe that this title is not the most important thing but actions, character traits and what they gonna do.

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Bran is going to warg the Ice Dragon, Sansa used moon tea on the seed of Ramsey and the Red Lady will reveal her breasts at least once more before the end of the show.  Those are immutable facts.  wE NEED NO LONGER DEBATE.  aCCEPT AND THRIVE.

Bran warging Ice Dragon or any other dragon is not so far fetched - if he's as powerful as some people think.