JCRB's Honeypot

Your Random ASOIAF/TWOIAF/D&E Opinions, Confessions and Dirty Secrets, TEN-POCALYPSE

137 posts in this topic

On 4/16/2017 at 8:41 AM, BalerionTheCat said:

The contrary for me. I like the idea. Littlefinger having his revenge against the man who stole the only woman he loved. Joffrey the weak fool. Manipulated like the other pawns of the game.

I believe many things will remain to debate when the books will be done. And it is a good thing. This subject could be one of them.

Certainly could be plenty of these. 

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I'd be much more interested in who becomes King/Queen of whatever if so many of my options weren't fumbling teenagers or outright children.

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Lady Dustin knows or suspects something weird happened at the tower of joy. Ned came back with out her husbands bones (who died at toj) but returned the horse I assume he had jon with him at that time from there she's been investigating why her husband died and is buried in dorne. That's why she went to the crypts to look at lyannas remains to see if anything weird was down there. I mean grrm has to start building up to the r+l=j soon and she's has a direct link to toj and a reason to be curious 

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Posted (edited)

Since no character thinks of Cersei in a positive way, I feel forced to side with her, as if she were a real-life person. I've even started to count deaths she is directly responsible for and mildly overlook those cases which went a bit out of control. Just to compare her case with more liked characters. I hate having to do this for her and hope another character will do this in future.

 

 

Edited by foxberlin

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5 hours ago, foxberlin said:

Since no character thinks of Cersei in a positive way, I feel forced to side with her, as if she were a real-life person. I've even started to count deaths she is directly responsible for and mildly overlook those cases which went a bit out of control. Just to compare her case with more liked characters. I hate having to do this for her and hope another character will do this in future.

 

Nonsense Cersei thinks of herself as the best thing ever and that makes up for it. Also I am sure that Qyburn and Robert Strong think of her kindly as well. I don't feel sorry for poor Carol mostly because she is the architect of her own destruction and having her clever schemes come back to bite her in the ass is justified.

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10 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Nonsense Cersei thinks of herself as the best thing ever and that makes up for it. Also I am sure that Qyburn and Robert Strong think of her kindly as well. I don't feel sorry for poor Carol mostly because she is the architect of her own destruction and having her clever schemes come back to bite her in the ass is justified.

The only thing for her is she was bred by an overambitious father. But she was already a monster at the time of Maggy's prophecy. She most certainly killed her friend, Melara, the day she told she wanted to marry Jaime.

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Dear Lord Wraith, you really want me to do it? ;-) I feel the common rejection of Cersei has a lot to do with the fact that no other POV ever thinks kindly of her. Sansa is another charakter you could call architect of her own destruction, but many of us do relate to her, even when she turns a blind eye on her own faults. She is loved by many other characters which makes it easier to believe she does not deserve a bad fate and can become better. Methinks Cersei deserves the same and I can easily see this coming from an uninspected POV. Her self-destruction just holds too much healthy Macbeth potential, she could serve the realm in her own way. And she sees all that, like Ned did when he was hand. Her schemes deal with her isolation in an imperfect political system. "I am in blood Stepped in so far that should I wade no more. Returning were as tedious as go o'er."

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, foxberlin said:

Dear Lord Wraith, you really want me to do it? ;-) I feel the common rejection of Cersei has a lot to do with the fact that no other POV ever thinks kindly of her.

I think it's more because inside her POV is such an dreadful place to be. I had some sympathy for her until I had to get into her head and it turns out she's even worse than most of the other POVs think she is.

Also, aside from thinking that she's even better at being Tywin than Tywin was, from being exactly like everything she hated about Robert, from being horrid, manipulative, nasty, and petty to Jaime and Tommen (not to mention terrifyingly abusive to her second son), from all the lives she ruined or ended because the people they belonged to annoyed her (Melara, Falyse, Senelle, the Blue Bard, all the dwarves that weren't Tyrion, Robert's bastard twin babies and their mother...), aside from all of the spite and vitriol and goading and general meanness that makes the other POVs think she is awful, every single time she got played by another character, she thought she was screwing someone else and loving it.

That's why I don't like her, anyway. :)

Edited by Therae
tweakery

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7 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

The only thing for her is she was bred by an overambitious father. But she was already a monster at the time of Maggy's prophecy. She most certainly killed her friend, Melara, the day she told she wanted to marry Jaime.

Tywin is certainly a good justification why his kids are such a mess. Also she was absolutely brutal to baby Tyrion as well.

7 hours ago, foxberlin said:

Dear Lord Wraith, you really want me to do it? ;-) I feel the common rejection of Cersei has a lot to do with the fact that no other POV ever thinks kindly of her. Sansa is another charakter you could call architect of her own destruction, but many of us do relate to her, even when she turns a blind eye on her own faults. She is loved by many other characters which makes it easier to believe she does not deserve a bad fate and can become better. Methinks Cersei deserves the same and I can easily see this coming from an uninspected POV. Her self-destruction just holds too much healthy Macbeth potential, she could serve the realm in her own way. And she sees all that, like Ned did when he was hand. Her schemes deal with her isolation in an imperfect political system. "I am in blood Stepped in so far that should I wade no more. Returning were as tedious as go o'er."

Only if you want to???

Sansa Stark was a 13 child who knew very little of the world and Cersei is a full grown woman playing the game of thrones for her own benefit. I don't think Cersei deserves a "bad fate" but she is certainly making one for herself. Jaime is on a path of redemption and Cersei seems more on a path to madness. Things could change but I wouldn't bet on it. 

There isn't anything wrong with empathizing with Cersei but I certainly don't have to like her.

4 hours ago, Therae said:

I think it's more because inside her POV is such an dreadful place to be. I had some sympathy for her until I had to get into her head and it turns out she's even worse than most of the other POVs think she is.

Also, aside from thinking that she's even better at being Tywin than Tywin was, from being exactly like everything she hated about Robert, from being horrid, manipulative, nasty, and petty to Jaime and Tommen (not to mention terrifyingly abusive to her second son), from all the lives she ruined or ended because the people they belonged to annoyed her (Melara, Falyse, Senelle, the Blue Bard, all the dwarves that weren't Tyrion, Robert's bastard twin babies and their mother...), aside from all of the spite and vitriol and goading and general meanness that makes the other POVs think she is awful, every single time she got played by another character, she thought she was screwing someone else and loving it.

That's why I don't like her, anyway. :)

Yup it was the POV as well that completely turned me off her character. Being Robert's wife couldn't have been fun and no doubt there are sympathetic aspects to her character. Trying to be a powerful women in a world ruled by men can't be easy for her but her POV shows how spiteful, vindictive and evil she is becoming...

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I have to confess that I still believe ASOIAF is a science fiction story.

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I think Cersei is evil, a narcissist with paranoid and antisocial tendencies. although I enjoyed her chapters.

Devils advocate: 

She is agressive, and in a male, like her father, her viciousness may be approved of. She's right that learning to use weapons, have leadership, education, more challenging expectations, would have brought out the best in her or got her elected in the US.

She thinks she loves Jaime and her kids.

During the Blackwater battle, she is helpless as to her fate, and her homicidal and abusive ways make sense.

She was completely incompatible with Robert and they are in a vicious cycle of abuse. She really needed a different spouse, and parents. Her mother died. She was abused by the clergy regardless of her crimes and the walk of shame made me regret my almost total dislike of her. No one should endure that kind of treatment or the mental, spiritual, social abuse.

Okay, empathy off!

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Posted (edited)

Jaime and Cersei not only seem to represent a Macbeth splitted in two parts - one returning, the other going on with wading through blood - but a Westerosi twin study. As children they switched roles easily. Cersei took fighting lessons, but as a grown-up her martial power is pretty much reduced to having ships named after her. Brienne's story proves how hard it is for women to live the life of the opposite gender. She grew more into a twin to Jaime than Cersei. Vary's fAegon speech at the end of DWD was shocking on so many levels. Amongst them the realisation of how poor the education for Westerosi queens really is compared to that little boy with sheer ambition to sit the throne. Cersei knows very well by now that her tears and sexual parts arn't true waepons, since they won her no fight. Let's wait and see.

Edited by foxberlin

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20 hours ago, Therae said:

I think it's more because inside her POV is such an dreadful place to be. I had some sympathy for her until I had to get into her head and it turns out she's even worse than most of the other POVs think she is.

Also, aside from thinking that she's even better at being Tywin than Tywin was, from being exactly like everything she hated about Robert, from being horrid, manipulative, nasty, and petty to Jaime and Tommen (not to mention terrifyingly abusive to her second son), from all the lives she ruined or ended because the people they belonged to annoyed her (Melara, Falyse, Senelle, the Blue Bard, all the dwarves that weren't Tyrion, Robert's bastard twin babies and their mother...), aside from all of the spite and vitriol and goading and general meanness that makes the other POVs think she is awful, every single time she got played by another character, she thought she was screwing someone else and loving it.

That's why I don't like her, anyway. :)

Very true!:thumbsup:

She reached the top of my dislike list as soon as Sansa's Lady death. And stayed uncontested from then. Also because she enjoyed every horrible things Joffrey did, or at least tried nothing against it. Going into her head showed me she is very afraid and isolated. So she earned some compassion. But I don't excuse anything. And she is my most fun character to read.:)

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I don't think the idea of the Iron Throne "rejecting" an unfit King so farfetched, nor there is anything magical about it.

Aegon made the Throne that way to make sure no King sits comfortable, they would have to be always wary and alert, but also calm. A King that isn't in that state, can get cut easily. Aerys, as he was mad and paranoid, probably was always anxious when sitting on the Throne and moved a lot. That's why he cut himself all the time.

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Posted (edited)

If Jon is resurrected as some fire zombie, he'll have red eyes. If there's enough trauma done to his body, his hair might turn white. He'd be just like Ghost, name and all!

If things go really wrong in the resurrection or the trauma is extreme, his white hair might turn brittle and start falling out like Theon and Stoneheart. Then he'd look like a mangy Ghost.

Edited by Lollygag

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I think GRRM may have been influenced by his alcoholic, womanizing, bastard sibling producing, neglectful, strong, wife negecting dad, when he imagined Robert. Write what you know.

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Sons of the Dragon in 25 days :) 

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