Most complex relationship of asoiaf

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

For me, Tyrion and Tywin. They are reason why I started to read the books after watching GOT.

[Ser Snowflake]

2 hours ago, Brandon Baratheon said:

For me, Tyrion and Tywin. They are reason why I started to read the books after watching GOT.

Tyrion and Tywin was the first one to come to mind. They are so much alike in personality except that Tyrion isn't as judgmental as Tywin, and Tywin is able to control his baser instincts a little better than his son. And despite the fact that  Shae was found in Tywin's bed in ASOS, I cannot imagine Tywin ever falling in love with a low-born whore.....or getting drunk.  I loathe Tywin Lannister and was so glad when Tyrion put that bolt through his father's gut. Poetic justice.

Another complex relationship is Robert and Stannis. Stannis suffered from middle child syndrome and was secretly jealous of his exceptional older brother. That's obvious....but I have no idea why Robert didn't like Stannis. Stannis almost died holding his brother's castle, and he took Dragonstone from the Targs and smashed the Ironborn in a brilliant trap during the Greyjoy Rebellion. I would think that a warrior like Robert would appreciate the tenacity of his younger brother. Instead we find that Robert was contemptuous and dismissive of Stannis ......to the point of naming his most useless brother as lord of SE just to spite Stannis.

So much could have been avoided if only Robert had loved and treated his little brother better.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

Im also thinking Tywin and Tyrion.

Tyrion is so clever and smart but he killed his mother on his way out and dosn't look right. Imagine if Tyrion got Jaime's look Tywin would be smiling alot more i think because Tywin would have the perfect heir.

[Renly's Banana]

5 hours ago, FreeWifi said:

Another complex relationship is Robert and Stannis. Stannis suffered from middle child syndrome and was secretly jealous of his exceptional older brother. That's obvious....but I have no idea why Robert didn't like Stannis. Stannis almost died holding his brother's castle, and he took Dragonstone from the Targs and smashed the Ironborn in a brilliant trap during the Greyjoy Rebellion. I would think that a warrior like Robert would appreciate the tenacity of his younger brother. Instead we find that Robert was contemptuous and dismissive of Stannis ......to the point of naming his most useless brother as lord of SE just to spite Stannis.

So much could have been avoided if only Robert had loved and treated his little brother better.

Because Stannis is an uptight, petty weirdo with zero social skills or charisma. It's really not that hard. Nobody liked Stannis, it's not just Robert. At least Renly was charismatic and fun to be around -- which is what Robert admired most. Their personalities were just too different. 

[cgrav]

I was gonna say the most complicated is Tyrion's relationship with himself.

[Ser Snowflake]

8 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said:

Because Stannis is an uptight, petty weirdo with zero social skills or charisma. It's really not that hard. Nobody liked Stannis, it's not just Robert. At least Renly was charismatic and fun to be around -- which is what Robert admired most. Their personalities were just too different. 

It seems that Robert was the one who was petty.

 

If it wasn't for Stannis starving at SE, the Tyrells and their bannermen could have taken the Baratheon's castle and joined Rhaegar's army at the trident. If it wasn't for his little brother....the royalist had an excellent chance of winning the war.

My brother is weird.....but I love him still, and my brother didn't do half of what Stannis did for Robert. Bobby was best friends with Ned, who was far from charismatic and fun to be around, yet he offers Ned Hand of the King over Stannis?

Robert's beef against Stannis is one of the main reasons why Tommen sits upon the Iron Throne. A united Baratheon alliance + Ned + Tullys would have been bad news for the Lannisters. One of my favorite parts of ACOK was when Cersei and Tyrion shared a laugh when they found out Stannis was fighting Renly

 

 

[Aetta]

It's not really a relationship described in ASOIAF proper, so much as in accompanying works:  The relationship between Tywin and Aerys.  It really was a rich relationship in terms of running the whole range of experiences and emotions between two "brothers,"  yet can be summed up in three simple words:  Shit went south.

[Renly's Banana]

2 hours ago, FreeWifi said:

It seems that Robert was the one who was petty.

If it wasn't for Stannis starving at SE, the Tyrells and their bannermen could have taken the Baratheon's castle and joined Rhaegar's army at the trident. If it wasn't for his little brother....the royalist had an excellent chance of winning the war.

My brother is weird.....but I love him still, and my brother didn't do half of what Stannis did for Robert. Bobby was best friends with Ned, who was far from charismatic and fun to be around, yet he offers Ned Hand of the King over Stannis?

Robert's beef against Stannis is one of the main reasons why Tommen sits upon the Iron Throne. A united Baratheon alliance + Ned + Tullys would have been bad news for the Lannisters. One of my favorite parts of ACOK was when Cersei and Tyrion shared a laugh when they found out Stannis was fighting Renly

They're just not compatible. Robert is a man who values a laugh and a good time more than being a good strategist or whatever. That's why he prefers hanging out with someone like Thoros over his brother. And while Ned can be cold and subdued, he grew up with Robert since they were kids; we don't know what young Ned was like aside from shy. Stannis, on the other hand, is incapable of getting along with anyone, and seems to only begrudgingly get along with his ONLY "friend" Davos.. who he threatens to kill on multiple occasions. 

Robert likes whores. Stannis wanted to ban brothels. 'nuff said.

[Stormking902]

I agree its probably Tywin and Tyrion but another good one is Arya Stark and the Hound although the Hound has cause Arya a lot of grief in her life and originally wanted him dead, I think now she pittys him and finally sees hes not some monster like his brother just often misunderstood and most of the crimes he commited was by orders of his king (Joffrey). I believe she didnt kill him when she had a chance because she actually hopes he survives but thats just my opinion. 

[Tralalala]

3 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

They're just not compatible. Robert is a man who values a laugh and a good time more than being a good strategist or whatever. That's why he prefers hanging out with someone like Thoros over his brother. And while Ned can be cold and subdued, he grew up with Robert since they were kids; we don't know what young Ned was like aside from shy. Stannis, on the other hand, is incapable of getting along with anyone, and seems to only begrudgingly get along with his ONLY "friend" Davos.. who he threatens to kill on multiple occasions. 

Robert likes whores. Stannis wanted to ban brothels. 'nuff said.

Imagine having Stannis for boss,i give myself a month at max before a fight broke over either verbal or with fists.

11 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Im also thinking Tywin and Tyrion.

Tyrion is so clever and smart but he killed his mother on his way out and dosn't look right. Imagine if Tyrion got Jaime's look Tywin would be smiling alot more i think because Tywin would have the perfect heir.

True but i don't agree Tyrion is that clever. Anyway i perfectly understand Tywin's position, i know i wouldn't want a deformed child either,bad for both the parents and the child.

1: The child will never be a success,no matter what forever crippled.
2: Having to give years upon years to care for such a child will eventually start feeling wasteful better try to have new healthy children.
3: Not modern day where such children are accepted more aka even more meaningless and wasteful.
4: Tyrion may have good chapters but,imagine him for a moment as your child,with the constant joking and the constant whoring.

I don't know why he didn't kill Tyrion as a babe and married again,it's what i would've done in place of Tywin,not right now for marriege but when Jaime goes into the kingsguard,assuming he still goes into it.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Robert/Stannis for me as well. Stannis is either deeply deeply insecure or is an asexual robot.or maybe both. If I could have any POV chapter from a character that doesn't have one it would be Stannis, I need to know if there is more to him then he lets on. Does he wear a mask or is he an entirely unemotional being.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

5 hours ago, prcxfo said:

Imagine having Stannis for boss,i give myself a month at max before a fight broke over either verbal or with fists.

True but i don't agree Tyrion is that clever. Anyway i perfectly understand Tywin's position, i know i wouldn't want a deformed child either,bad for both the parents and the child.

1: The child will never be a success,no matter what forever crippled.
2: Having to give years upon years to care for such a child will eventually start feeling wasteful better try to have new healthy children.
3: Not modern day where such children are accepted more aka even more meaningless and wasteful.
4: Tyrion may have good chapters but,imagine him for a moment as your child,with the constant joking and the constant whoring.

I don't know why he didn't kill Tyrion as a babe and married again,it's what i would've done in place of Tywin,not right now for marriege but when Jaime goes into the kingsguard,assuming he still goes into it.

Wait what dont you think Tyrion is clever? I have never heard anyone say that, why lol?

1. Tyrion seems succesful at everything he puts his mind to. If his father didnt hate him he would be very succesful by any standard in the public eye.

2. House Lannister has people to do that for their children. Tyrion is just a dwarf and he is one of the most clever people in the series. Tywin i bet fast recognized Tyrion's intellect and if he loved him no way he would have thought the time spent with him as wasteful?

3. Normaly a dwarf son would be meaningless in a powerful house but Tyrion more than makes up for it with his intelligence.

4. You realize that he is that way because he is depressed and whores and drinks to deal with it? Not enough him being a dwarf in a world that hates dwarves, ontop of that his father and sister has hated and neglected him since birth. He was lonley all his childhood and he understood that he could never be a knight as a child which is probably something he wanted to be. When he fell in love for the first time his own father had her GANG RAPED. He wanted to explore the world that he had read so much about but his father forbade it and put him in charge of the cisterns and drains of Casterly Rock. 

You claim that Tyrion isn't clever yet you don't get this??? Either you haven't read the books or it might be you that is stupid...

[Tralalala]

20 hours ago, Coolbeard the Exile said:

Wait what dont you think Tyrion is clever? I have never heard anyone say that, why lol?

1. Tyrion seems succesful at everything he puts his mind to. If his father didnt hate him he would be very succesful by any standard in the public eye.

2. House Lannister has people to do that for their children. Tyrion is just a dwarf and he is one of the most clever people in the series. Tywin i bet fast recognized Tyrion's intellect and if he loved him no way he would have thought the time spent with him as wasteful?

3. Normaly a dwarf son would be meaningless in a powerful house but Tyrion more than makes up for it with his intelligence.

4. You realize that he is that way because he is depressed and whores and drinks to deal with it? Not enough him being a dwarf in a world that hates dwarves, ontop of that his father and sister has hated and neglected him since birth. He was lonley all his childhood and he understood that he could never be a knight as a child which is probably something he wanted to be. When he fell in love for the first time his own father had her GANG RAPED. He wanted to explore the world that he had read so much about but his father forbade it and put him in charge of the cisterns and drains of Casterly Rock. 

You claim that Tyrion isn't clever yet you don't get this??? Either you haven't read the books or it might be you that is stupid...

1: That's average and pretty much expected from everyone,not clever clever is someone like littlefinger.

2: And it's Tywin's job to oversee everything from education to future marriages and so on,speaking for myself i know i wouldn't want to bother with a dwarf/cripple.

3:I disagree about that,he isn't shown as very intelligent,self conscious yes normal intelligence yes but don't make him into a bond genius,also what about any of his children? There's a high chance they'll be dwarfs too.

4: How does that concern me? Why should i care that he's depressed,that he's been lonely and that his father and sister dislike him? Or about any of his other problems?

As i said i do get it,i just don't care one bit about it. I have read some of the booksya not all but some,next time go call your father and mother stupid...

[Ser Snowflake]

6 minutes ago, prcxfo said:

1: That's average and pretty much expected from everyone,not clever clever is someone like littlefinger.

2: And it's Tywin's job to oversee everything from education to future marriages and so on,speaking for myself i know i wouldn't want to bother with a dwarf/cripple.

3:I disagree about that,he isn't shown as very intelligent,self conscious yes normal intelligence yes but don't make him into a bond genius,also what about any of his children? There's a high chance they'll be dwarfs too.

4: How does that concern me? Why should i care that he's depressed,that he's been lonely and that his father and sister dislike him? Or about any of his other problems?

As i said i do get it,i just don't care one bit about it. I have read some of the booksya not all but some,next time go call your father and mother stupid...

Tyrion is one of the smartest characters in the series. His brief time as Hand of the King is a showcase of his intelligence, and if it wasn't for Tyrion, Stannis would have taken KL. 

Tywin hates Tyrion.....but even so he grudgingly sends him to KL to become acting hand to bring Joffrey and Cersei to heel. This is a great honor, and one not given out for sentimentality. Tywin is well aware of Tyrion's intelligence, and is rewarded by this move when KL is still standing when he rescues the day during the Blackwater battle.

My favorite chapter is from ACOK when Tyrion  skillfully played Varys, Littlefinger, and Pycelle in an attempt to find out who is leaking information to his sweet sister. The only reason why Tyrion doesn't rise any higher is his status as a dwarf.

[Philokles]

Tywin-Tyrion and Arya-Sansa are probably the two relationships with the most dynamics.

[devilish]

Tyrion and Tywin is one of the most complex relationships in ASOIAF. However, Roose and Ramsey takes the biscuit. 

Roose is a ruthless and powerful man. Surely he could handle his bastard son especially since 

a- he never loved him
b- Ramsey is pure evil
c- Ramsey probably killed his true born son, a child described as perfect

Yet, not only he keeps him alive despite being married to another woman (ie new baby, new assassination) but he also legitimise him. 

Ramsey on the other hand adores his father despite his mother was raped and he's being treated like crap by him throughout his childhood. Instead he goes on killing the only Bolton who was actually kind to him. 

That defies logic

[Tralalala]

2 hours ago, devilish said:

Tyrion and Tywin is one of the most complex relationships in ASOIAF. However, Roose and Ramsey takes the biscuit. 

Roose is a ruthless and powerful man. Surely he could handle his bastard son especially since 

a- he never loved him
b- Ramsey is pure evil
c- Ramsey probably killed his true born son, a child described as perfect

Yet, not only he keeps him alive despite being married to another woman (ie new baby, new assassination) but he also legitimise him. 

Ramsey on the other hand adores his father despite his mother was raped and he's being treated like crap by him throughout his childhood. Instead he goes on killing the only Bolton who was actually kind to him. 

That defies logic

True but a lot of people in the books only project their power,aka Tywin being so commanding,Roose being so indifferent, also a lot of them only go by low cunning luck and birth. And we still don't know if he did actually kill him or if his brother(forgot the name) was actually kind.

[devilish]

20 minutes ago, prcxfo said:

True but a lot of people in the books only project their power,aka Tywin being so commanding,Roose being so indifferent, also a lot of them only go by low cunning luck and birth. And we still don't know if he did actually kill him or if his brother(forgot the name) was actually kind.

Tywin-Tyrion relationship is complex but understandable. You have a brilliant but somehow bigoted father who can't get past his son's disability and a brilliant son who is scarred by all this hatred (ie drinking too much wine, whoring etc) but who still tries his best to defend a family that he loves. Things would have gone smoothly if Tyrion didn't forced the hand by asking Tywin for his right to CR. Don't take me wrong, I am pro Tyrion and I believe he's the only one able to do the job. But I am also aware how medieval nobility works (the Lord is a despot in his house and what Tyrion did was challenging the old lion).

The Roose-Ramsey relationship goes beyond any logic. Roose is described as a powerful Lord whose the last descendent of a prestigous but cruel dynasty. He's ruthless but wise enough to know which rules he can break and when. 

On the other hand you've got Ramsey, a cruel savage, whom Roose made it very obvious he doesn't like. Kinslaying is a big crime in Westeros so I can understand why Roose didn't killed the boy immediately. There again, the boy grow up being a ticking bomb waiting to explode and with the North being lead by the uptight family its only a matter of time before Ramsey does something big enough to piss of honourable Ned.

The big chance for Roose to get rid of Ramsey happened when Domeric is killed. Roose is no spring chicken so he knows who killed him and even if he can't 100% prove it, he's been around for long enough to know how to pin it on Ramsey. Having him out of the way would spare the Boltons from playing russian roulette all the time, and to plan for Roose's next wife with some serenity in mind. And yet, Roose hesitates. Not only he hesitates, he even ends up legitimising him, removing the only obstacle Ramsey had to take the big prize himself (ie the dreadfort). He does that at a time when he brings a new wife at home, which will surely infuriate Ramsey. A true born has more rights then a legitimised bastard

That simply does not make sense

 

 

 

[Good Guy Garlan]

Jaime and pretty much anyone. Cersei, Tywin, Brienne, Tyrion, Aerys, you decide. Jaime is probably the most complex character in the series, bar none. 

[Dolorous22]

Ned and Lyanna/Ashara.