HaeSuse Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Maybe GRRM meant literally "Kings" when he mentioned not giving "King POVs"? As we have had Cersei POVs, and she's been Queen Regeant, Queen Protector, Queen Mother, etc. And Dany POVs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 On 4/5/2017 at 5:53 PM, bent branch said: Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen. He might have let Shireen live, but the other three had to die. There was no way the Lannisters would back down as long as anyone of those children lived. Remember, Renly didn't know Cersei's children weren't Robert's. Yep, Renly would have had to kill off every blood relative he had to be king. He knew, sorry but I know he knew based on things he said in the first book. So they were not his nieces or nephews. And everyone should have wanted to kill Joffrey. Wanting to kill Joffrey makes you a good person in my mind. He wouldn't have killed Tommen or Myrcella I think. On 4/6/2017 at 1:47 PM, Lady Blizzardborn said: No, Mel planned to kill Edric. Stannis kept saying no. Davos was afraid that Mel would wear Stannis down, so he shipped the kid off. Stannis had agreed to the plan. Did you read the same books as me? Te only reason that is Edric is alive is named Davos. He shipped him away just in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 7:00 PM, Dofs said: Stannis' storyline feels like it is a mid-story filler. What!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 6 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: He knew, sorry but I know he knew based on things he said in the first book. So they were not his nieces or nephews. And everyone should have wanted to kill Joffrey. Wanting to kill Joffrey makes you a good person in my mind. He wouldn't have killed Tommen or Myrcella I think. Stannis had agreed to the plan. Did you read the same books as me? Te only reason that is Edric is alive is named Davos. He shipped him away just in time. Renly didn't know. Here is the quote where he flat out says he not only didn't know, but doesn't believe the children are bastards (ACOK - Chapter 31): Quote The naked threat fanned her fury. "You are very free to name others traitor and usurper, my lord, yet how are you any different? You say you alone are the rightful king, yet it seems to me that Robert had two sons. By all the laws of the Seven Kingdoms, Prince Joffrey is his rightful heir, and Tommen after him ... and we are all traitors, however good our reasons." Renly laughed. "You must forgive Lady Catelyn, Stannis. She's come all the way down from Riverrun, a long way ahorse. I fear she never saw you little letter." "Joffrey is not my brother's seed," Stannis said bluntly. "Nor is Tommen. They are bastards. The girl as well. All three of them abominations born of incest." Would even Cersei be so mad? Catelyn was speechless. "Isn't that a sweet story, my lady?" Renly asked. "I was camped at Horn Hill when Lord Tarly received his letter, and I must say, it took my breath away." He smiled at his brother. "I had never suspected you were so clever, Stannis. Were it only true, you would indeed be Robert's heir." "Were it true? Do you name me a liar?" "Can you prove any word of this fable?" I don't know what you think you read in the first book, but this is one of the things that is crystal clear in the books. Renly did not know nor did he believe that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen were Cersei's incest bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 11 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: <snip Stannis had agreed to the plan. Did you read the same books as me? Te only reason that is Edric is alive is named Davos. He shipped him away just in time. Mel had been trying for quite a while to get Stannis to agree. He kept saying no. Then he finally caved, but there's no telling whether or not he would actually have gone through with it. If he'd been so in favor of the idea he would have just agreed the first time she mentioned it. Yes, I read the same books. But I apparently see Stannis somewhat differently than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maudisdottir Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 "Stannis kept saying no." Right up until he said yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Raventree Hall Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 On 4/7/2017 at 9:28 PM, bent branch said: Renly didn't know. Here is the quote where he flat out says he not only didn't know, but doesn't believe the children are bastards (ACOK - Chapter 31): I don't know what you think you read in the first book, but this is one of the things that is crystal clear in the books. Renly did not know nor did he believe that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen were Cersei's incest bastards. I guess I think Renly's plans to have Margerry marry Robert and put Cersei aside only makes sense if Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are not his children. How could you get rid of Cersei if there was not some major reason to do so. I think that it is far from crystal clear. Renly liked to mess with others, and was rarely serious. He doesn't really care either way, but it is far from benificial for him if Stannis is heir rather than Joffrey. I guess I think Renly is rather deeper than most people seem to think. He certainly had a better political plan than Stannis or Eddard. (Using magic to murder your brother is far from military genius; and although I know we can never know, I think Renly would have crushed Stannis if a battle had actually taken place. Also, unlike Robb or Eddard or Stannis, he made the right connections to ensure he could win. I guess I just think people give him too little credit. He was no fool. On 4/8/2017 at 2:47 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said: Mel had been trying for quite a while to get Stannis to agree. He kept saying no. Then he finally caved, but there's no telling whether or not he would actually have gone through with it. If he'd been so in favor of the idea he would have just agreed the first time she mentioned it. Yes, I read the same books. But I apparently see Stannis somewhat differently than you do. Yes, we do. I think Stannis is glorified by the fan base far too much, same as Tyrion or Arya, and I think for that reason they ignore his faults. He murdered his brother and he would have murdered his nephew if Davos had not interfered. I do not dislike Stannis, but I think he is a much darker character than his fan base seems to think. He is no Eddard Stark, honerable to a fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Renly's camp didn't have a POV because he, Tyrells and Lannisters are pretty much the same. It would be boring to see the same plots happen. A Stannis POV would give away too much information early about Jon Arryn, Melisandre and Stannis's plots with them. GRRM has a difficult time writting child POVs (Bran and Arya) so adding another one (Shireen) would increase this difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 On 2017-03-23 at 4:51 PM, Brandon Baratheon said: Baratheons are as important as Starks, Targaryens and Lannisters. They deserve POV apperance. If it happened we would know more about relationship between Renly and Loras. Also if Davos chapters were replaced by Stannis' in Clash of Kings it would be more interesting. It is odd that this rule works also for Joeffrey, Myrcella and Tommen. Is it possible that Stannis knows something that we shouldn't learn until the end of books? Baratheon's are clearly not as important as the Stark's. You don't want any pov because it might reveal to much information and will not fit with the story as well. I suspect Stannis know's a lot too much for him to be a pov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 11 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said: <snip Yes, we do. I think Stannis is glorified by the fan base far too much, same as Tyrion or Arya, and I think for that reason they ignore his faults. He murdered his brother and he would have murdered his nephew if Davos had not interfered. I do not dislike Stannis, but I think he is a much darker character than his fan base seems to think. He is no Eddard Stark, honerable to a fault. I agree that he's no Ned. But he's also no Tywin. If Tywin had the opportunity to take out someone who was standing in his way using dark magic, on the theory that no one would realize he was involved, he totally would have taken it and felt zero remorse. Stannis feels remorse over killing Renly. He's the quintessential gray characters. Has his good points and his bad ones. I think he puts duty ahead of honor way too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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