rotting sea cow

R+L=J speculation from frigging 1998!

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Cool. I wonder when the earliest Blackfyre-would-challenge-Daenerys theory was developed. It would be easy to guess from the beginning that Aegon, or an imposter, would challenge her, but I would like to know when folks began to theorize that the imposter would be a Blackfyre. 

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6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Cool. I wonder when the earliest Blackfyre-would-challenge-Daenerys theory was developed. It would be easy to guess from the beginning that Aegon, or an imposter, would challenge her, but I would like to know when folks began to theorize that the imposter would be a Blackfyre. 

That goes back to the publication of ACoK. The cloth dragon is pretty obvious, as is the fact that Rhaegar thought his son Aegon was very special. You don't need Daemon Blackfyre for any of that. Perhaps some people even wondered about the Aegon boy since AGoT but back then we had no reason to believe the boy may have survived.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That goes back to the publication of ACoK. The cloth dragon is pretty obvious, as is the fact that Rhaegar thought his son Aegon was very special. You don't need Daemon Blackfyre for any of that. Perhaps some people even wondered about the Aegon boy since AGoT but back then we had no reason to believe the boy may have survived.

Duh, that's what I said. I'm wondering when readers started speculating the rival claimant would be a Blackfyre. 

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I can't remember which books it was in, but I vividly remember which passages made me first realize the truth about Jon's parentage.

It was the combination of Jon being described as resembling Arya, while Arya was described as closely resembling Lyanna, and Rhaegar riding past his queen to crown Lyanna the Queen of Love and Beauty. That moment it all fell in place for me, and everything after that was only affirmation of a truth I already firmly believed in.

So, was that Game of Thrones or Clash of Kings? I think the Harrenhal tourney reveal might have been Clash of Kings. But in any case, it was quite apparent already at that point.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Duh, that's what I said. I'm wondering when readers started speculating the rival claimant would be a Blackfyre. 

Since 2000, I'd guess. When the Blackfyres were introduced. But nobody besides you really cares about the Blackfyres. The important question always was whether Aegon would be a fake or not (and that was always connected to the question whether Varys and Illyrio are true Targaryen loyalists or not). Nobody really cares who Aegon actually was if he is a fake.

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3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Duh, that's what I said. I'm wondering when readers started speculating the rival claimant would be a Blackfyre. 

I never suspected the Blackfyre thing, even after Aegon's arrival, I still wondered where the hell George dug up this NEW claimant to the Throne. Not having read the Dunk and Egg books might have been the reason why the Blackfyres simply haven't interested me, and still don't.

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21 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I never suspected the Blackfyre thing, even after Aegon's arrival, I still wondered where the hell George dug up this NEW claimant to the Throne. Not having read the Dunk and Egg books might have been the reason why the Blackfyres simply haven't interested me, and still don't.

I am actually changing this to secret eye information because I have no idea if this is a spoiler for you or not because it does have to do with the D&E novellas.
 

Spoiler

 

That was actually when I thought the idea of the Blackfyres coming back in to play would happen. I had no idea how, or through who, anything, until I started reading the Aegon Blackfyre theory threads and it all started to click together.

One of the first things I asked on these threads when I joined was if the Blackfyres would come back because there must be a largeer reason for why a 125 year old Bloodraven was still around... based on his D&E history. Needless to say I was beaten down with several bags of oranges for simply bringing up the idea. Aaaah, good times:cheers:


 

 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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I love it. 

I myself worked it out about a third of the way into my first read on ACOK. It was a subconscious thing though. I was stood on a chair stripping the wallpaper on our landing and it just came to me. Pop!! OMG Lyanna is Jon's mother... Oh my gods his father must be Rhaegar Targaryen. And I ran downstairs and googled it. Finding this forum. And of course that I was hardly the first to realise this. lol. 

though I did take great pleasure in texting it to my brother, who had totally missed it and said No way, he's got brown hair! He can't be.  Boy did I enjoy proving him wrong. 

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34 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I am actually changing this to secret eye information because I have no idea if this is a spoiler for you or not because it does have to do with the D&E novellas.
 

  Hide contents

 

That was actually when I thought the idea of the Blackfyres coming back in to play would happen. I had no idea how, or through who, anything, until I started reading the Aegon Blackfyre theory threads and it all started to click together.

One of the first things I asked on these threads when I joined was if the Blackfyres would come back because there must be a largeer reason for why a 125 year old Bloodraven was still around... based on his D&E history. Needless to say I was beaten down with several bags of oranges for simply bringing up the idea. Aaaah, good times:cheers:

 

 

 

 

 

But @Lord Varys said I am the only one who "really cares about the Blackfyres." 

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1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I never suspected the Blackfyre thing, even after Aegon's arrival, I still wondered where the hell George dug up this NEW claimant to the Throne. Not having read the Dunk and Egg books might have been the reason why the Blackfyres simply haven't interested me, and still don't.

What the fuck? If you still haven't read them sit down and do so!

11 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But @Lord Varys said I am the only one who "really cares about the Blackfyres." 

The point being that the Blackfyre angle wasn't never really that interesting. People wanted to know whether that the Aegon we were expecting to come would be real or fake. Who he was if he was fake wasn't all that important.

Now the interesting thing is that he might be Illyrio's son. That adds a lot of potential for conflict and twists to the story, but how exactly such an Aegon would be related to his Targaryen cousins is only interesting for people who are obsessed with family trees.

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20 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

But @Lord Varys said I am the only one who "really cares about the Blackfyres." 

He's not real that's all I care about. I don't care what theory comes true I'd prefer it to be left ambiguous, like the hound. However, if I were to put money on a theory it's Illyrio's son through a Blackfyre mother. 

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11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

What the fuck? If you still haven't read them sit down and do so!

The point being that the Blackfyre angle wasn't never really that interesting. People wanted to know whether that the Aegon we were expecting to come would be real or fake. Who he was if he was fake wasn't all that important.

Now the interesting thing is that he might be Illyrio's son. That adds a lot of potential for conflict and twists to the story, but how exactly such an Aegon would be related to his Targaryen cousins is only interesting for people who are obsessed with family trees.

Thank you Lord Varys for telling us what we should and should not find interesting. (BTW aren't you one of those obsessed with family trees and fake history?)

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Thank you Lord Varys for telling us what we should and should not find interesting.

That was supposed to be a self parody. And I was mostly speaking of the past.

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The war that never ends :drunk: 

 

I bet you guys would be best friends in real life.

Edited by The Great and Mighty Poo
Speculation

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17 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

What the fuck? If you still haven't read them sit down and do so!

 

I've largely familiarized myself with all the important bits and pieces in various online reviews, Tor rereads with that Leigh Butler lady, and more recently the Search of Ice and Fire tool.

So I basically know the story. Frankly, I just don't find Dunk or Egg very interesting. They're dull, and they mostly serve to give us yet MORE Targaryen backstory, which not everyone is interested in.

The She Wolves of Winterfell story, now that one I'll definitely read.

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5 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I've largely familiarized myself with all the important bits and pieces in various online reviews, Tor rereads with that Leigh Butler lady, and more recently the Search of Ice and Fire tool.

So I basically know the story. Frankly, I just don't find Dunk or Egg very interesting. They're dull, and they mostly serve to give us yet MORE Targaryen backstory, which not everyone is interested in.

The She Wolves of Winterfell story, now that one I'll definitely read.

I know I'm basically a nobody on this forum, but you should give the tales of Dunk and Egg a read. They're fantastic

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8 minutes ago, Ser Kinslayer said:

I know I'm basically a nobody on this forum, but you should give the tales of Dunk and Egg a read. They're fantastic

Actually I recall that I eventually obtained a copy of Book 1 somewhere and read through it in a day or so, given its relatively low word count. The one where Dunk basically causes the death of a good Targaryen who fought on his side in that melee challenge. And I think there was some Robert Baratheon ancestor involved too. Might be the Laughing Storm, or maybe I'm confusing him with another Baratheon clone.

As for Egg, he comes across as an alien-like, aloof little weirdo.

Sorry, it didn't grab me.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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6 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Actually I recall that I eventually obtained a copy of Book 1 somewhere and read through it in a day or so, given its relatively low word count. The one where Dunk basically causes the death of a good Targaryen who fought on his side in that melee challenge. And I think there was some Robert Baratheon ancestor involved too. Might be the Laughing Storm, or maybe I'm confusing him with another Baratheon clone.

As for Egg, he comes across as an alien-like, aloof little weirdo.

Sorry, it didn't grab me.

Give me your address. I'm mailing you a copy STAT! 

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