US Politics: Kill (the) Bill

[Dr. Pepper]

I honestly don't see there being any fallout from this, especially not for Trump.  Conservative voters stand for nothing.  That's been proven.  They voted for Trump, ffs.  

[denstorebog]

6 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

So, how does Trump salvage his Presidency? Pass tax cuts and infrastructure? Go full authoritarian?

As for tax cuts, that's gonna be like a sequel to what we've just witnessed. Same heroes, same villains, higher stakes and conflicts for everyone.

As for 'going authoritarian', I'm not sure what you mean specifically, but it seems to me he's lost a lot of the political capital to be able to ram excessive power grabs through without obstruction from even his own party.

[Martell Spy]

 

Quote

 

As for tax cuts, that's gonna be like a sequel to what we've just witnessed. Same heroes, same villains, higher stakes and conflicts for everyone.

As for 'going authoritarian', I'm not sure what you mean specifically, but it seems to me he's lost a lot of the political capital to be able to go anything alone right now.

 

 

By going full authoritarian I mean stopping being a President in a constitutional Democracy. Doing things like ignoring judicial orders and generally abusing the power of the Presidency. I don't think this will happen, but some have speculated that it will.

I just got a letter back from my Republican US Rep, only after the bill was dropped. I'm pretty sure this guy actually voted for the healthcare bill to leave committee.

Quote

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts regarding efforts to reform our nation’s health care system.  Health care is a deeply personal issue, and I appreciate you taking the time to share your story with me.

My focus has always been to work together with all Members of Congress to create a patient-centered, high-quality health care system that offers more choices at an affordable price. This is the health care system Americans deserve. After considerable public debate, Congress could not come to a consensus that H.R. 1628, the American Health Care Act, achieved those goals. 

I will continue encouraging my colleagues in both parties to come together, put aside their differences, and find solutions to our health care challenges that benefit all Americans.  

Thank you again for contacting me. Your interest and input is valued and appreciated.  I encourage you to continue to stay in touch with me as Congress works on reforming our health care system. 
 
Sincerely,

David G. Reichert

 

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Pretty solid piece in the New Republic regarding the likely fallout...

 The Republicans Did This to Themselves

 https://newrepublic.com/article/141209/republicans-responsible-obamacare-mess

[denstorebog]

1 minute ago, Martell Spy said:

By going full authoritarian I mean stopping being a President in a constitutional Democracy. Doing things like ignoring judicial orders and generally abusing the power of the Presidency. I don't think this will happen, but some have speculated that it will.

I don't think anyone doubts that that's what Trump would want to do, given half a chance. But we're talking about a gradual shift of powers that usually begins with the would-be authoritarian in a position of popularity or has a perceived high ground to build from (because they seem politically unstoppable or because of special circumstances, like with Erdogan after the coup). I'd argue that Trump has neither at the moment. Power, technically yes, but he's made some enemies and in-party conflicts now, and Congress is now more likely to put roadblocks in the way if he goes too far - simply because there are cracks in the notion that he's the strongman with the plan. At least that's my take.

[OldGimletEye]

The Republican Waterloo

Republicans send in the Old Crazy Brigade

"Put every gun to them sir. Every gun."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/03/the-republican-waterloo/520833/

Quote

Seven years and three days ago, the House of Representatives grumblingly voted to approve the Senate’s version of the Affordable Care Act. Democrats in the House were displeased by many of the changes introduced by Senate Democrats. But in the interval after Senate passage, the Republicans had gained a 41st seat in the Senate. Any further tinkering with the law could trigger a Republican filibuster. Rather than lose the whole thing, the House swallowed hard and accepted a bill that liberals regarded as a giveaway to insurance companies and other interest groups. The finished law proceeded to President Obama for signature on March 23, 2010.

 

Quote

 Those were the days of Glenn Beck’s 5 o’clock Fox News conspiracy rants, of Sarah Palin’s “death panels,” of Orly Taitz and her fellow Birthers, of Tea Party rallies at which men openly brandished assault rifles.

Oh yes. Them were the days. They were almost like the Golden Age of Conservative crazy.

[denstorebog]

2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Oh yes. Them were the days. They were almost like the Golden Age Conservative crazy.

After seeing Glenn Beck talk to Anderson Cooper on CNN about how insane Steve Bannon is, I can honestly say I miss those days.

[Fragile Bird]

"Good evening and welcome from the smoking political crater known as Washington".

Lol, Anderson Cooper's opening comments on his evening show. Followed by showing 45's full comments (where he said this was Nancy Pelosi's fault...wait until they get civilized and work together [with us]) where he blamed the failure on Democrats: "not a single vote from the Democrats". Yah, cause you had a majority in Congress you ignored the Democrats, doofus.

And "I never said I'd repeal it and replace it in 64 days" followed by 3 or 4 clips of 45 on the campaign trail, "I will immediately repeal and replace Obamacare".

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Heh. Gonna crack open a Pliny the Elder and toast Obama when I get home. I have to imagine he's enjoying a good laugh right about now.

 

/Health Care is hard! 

[Fragile Bird]

6 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

/Health Care is hard! 

Who knew?

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Fragile Bird said:

Lol, Anderson Cooper's opening comments on his evening show. Followed by showing 45's full comments (where he said this was Nancy Pelosi's fault...wait until they get civilized and work together [with us]) where he blamed the failure on Democrats: "not a single vote from the Democrats". Yah, cause you had a majority in Congress you ignored the Democrats, doofus.

And where in Trumpian or Republican wacko world would it be the case of Democrats not being extremely pissed off with the Republicans and Trump after seven years of "death panels", Benghazi, emails!!!, Merrick Garland, etc, etc.

Oh why, does the Trump and the Republicans think the Democrats are their doormats?

Plus the fact, the Democrats were never asked for their input anyway.

It's going to be interesting how the Republicans spin this to blame Democrats. What's depressing is that they will probably get away with it.

[Xray the Enforcer]

I suppose that depends on the audience, right? Everyone outside of the dumbest of motherfuckers will be able to see that the conservative wing of the Republican party did not get on board with Trumpcare (unless they're so intellectually bankrupt that they refuse). So, does one actually give a fuck about the dumbest of motherfuckers and the intellectually bankrupt at this point?

[Fragile Bird]

1 minute ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

I suppose that depends on the audience, right? Everyone outside of the dumbest of motherfuckers will be able to see that the conservative wing of the Republican party did not get on board with Trumpcare (unless they're so intellectually bankrupt that they refuse). So, does one actually give a fuck about the dumbest of motherfuckers and the intellectually bankrupt at this point?

They do vote, unlike, apparently, smarter, more intellectually wealthy persons in certain key states.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Pliny the Elder is fairly easy to come by (you can buy it from the brewery). Pliny the Younger is the unicorn of Russian River.

[LongRider]

House, meet Trump.

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Triskan said:

How...how could you have possibly acquired this?

The Whole Foods up the block from my work gets a small disbursement every Thursday. I got chummy with one of the stock girls who informed me that it typically hits the shelf at about 10:00-10:30 in the morning. If I hit them up at lunchtime on that day, I can usually score. Not always, but mostly. 

 

/Not on the stock girl, silly monkey! Get your mind out of the gutter. I'm a happily married man.

[Fragile Bird]

One thing I have come to realize, as a foreigner, over the last year, is how fractured the Republican Party is.

You guys keep calling it "the Republican Party", like it's one party. People in any other country would call this a coalition of right wing parties. Because I don't know US history intimately, I don't know if this is totally new or if this has happened previously at different points in history. I do think it's new in the last half century, though. I have never followed US politics so closely before, but I am sure that the Republican Party of the 60s through to at least the end of the 80s was much more united. It seems to me things started to change in the 90s, during the Clinton years, with the appearance of the virulently rabid Republicans who hated Hilary and Bill.

What has become obvious to me is that the Tea Party is real and has power. They got rid of the previous speaker (my God, he must be happy not to be in Washington anymore) and they would not vote for the bill just to give their Republican president a first big win, for the good of the party. They said screw you.

It will be fascinating to see if, at the end of 4 years, Trump will have learned to maneuver among and bring together the various power groups, or how much the tail will wag the dog.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

One thing I have come to realize, as a foreigner, over the last year, is how fractured the Republican Party is.

You guys keep calling it "the Republican Party", like it's one party. People in any other country would call this a coalition of right wing parties. Because I don't know US history intimately, I don't know if this is totally new or if this has happened previously at different points in history. I do think it's new in the last half century, though. I have never followed US politics so closely before, but I am sure that the Republican Party of the 60s through to at least the end of the 80s was much more united. It seems to me things started to change in the 90s, during the Clinton years, with the appearance of the virulently rabid Republicans who hated Hilary and Bill.

What has become obvious to me is that the Tea Party is real and has power. They got rid of the previous speaker (my God, he must be happy not to be in Washington anymore) and they would not vote for the bill just to give their Republican president a first big win, for the good of the party. They said screw you.

It will be fascinating to see if, at the end of 4 years, Trump will have learned to maneuver among and bring together the various power groups, or how much the tail will wag the dog.

Oh yeah, you are absolutely right. The Religious Right, The Tea Party, Libertarians, Neo-Cons, Alt-Right, etc, etc, ad infinitum. They are a bit of a mess at the moment. I guess there is some truth to their Big Tent claim.   

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Fragile Bird said:

snip

Given the nature, of the American voting system, I'd say both parties have been traditionally broad tent parties, bring together various coalitions.Typically as soon as a third party arises and gathers sufficient political power, it's likely to be absorbed by one of the parties.

Right before the 1930s and years beyond you had right wing Democrats, mostly southerners, many who became part of the Liberty League in opposition to FDR, and the more liberal northern wing. Perhaps the one thing that united both elements was the issue of free trade. And the Republican Party had it's more progressive elements.

What's different now, I think, is the Republican Party has slowly become more conservative, while the Democratic Party has become more liberal*. I think this process started right around the 1960s. By the 1980s, with the election of Reagan, it would seem the more conservative part of the Republican Party came to dominate, rather than the more traditional Eishenhower Republicans that came to accept the legitimacy of the New Deal. Also by the 1980s old conservative Democrats like Larry McDonald, who was a John Bircher, were dying out and gone.

And it would seem the power of conservatives in the Republican Party has just kept on getting stronger within that party as the more moderate type of Republicans have died out or retired.

*though during the Clinton era, I'd argue the Democratic Party became more liberal in a social sense and not in the economic sense. In an economic sense, I'd say the Democratic Party, for the most, part came to accept much of the so called "Washington Consensus" started in the 1980s. For instance around 1992, the Democratic Party took out the goal "Full Employment" out its plank. This, I don't, think is something that older new deal Democrats would have done.

Certainly, the Republican Party is coalition of various interest groups, mostly right wing ones, not always getting along. The difference, I think these days, is the overlap between the parties is mainly gone. 

[Fragile Bird]

Can someone correct me id I'm wrong? Once again Trump's press conference is being replayed, once again I see him starting off complaining they didn't have a single Democratic vote for his health care bill.

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare in Congress, did they?