US Politics: Kill (the) Bill

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Can someone correct me id I'm wrong? Once again Trump's press conference is being replayed, once again I see him starting off complaining they didn't have a single Democratic vote for his health care bill.

Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare in Congress, did they?

No one voted on this bill period. It never came to the floor. He needs to figure out how reality works.

[Fragile Bird]

9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

No one voted on this bill period. It never came to the floor. He needs to figure out how reality works.

Well, let's be fair, he's saying they tallied up the votes and they didn't have enough to pass the bill, and not one of those votes they tallied came from a Democrat.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Well, let's be fair, he's saying they tallied up the votes and they didn't have enough to pass the bill, and not one of those votes they tallied came from a Democrat.

Eh, I don't think it's unfair to look at it this way. His party has the House. They couldn't get enough support from their own fucking party to even bring this Bill to the floor. You don't get to point at the other side when you fail at unifying your own party. He doesn't get to pass the buck to the opposition here. His excuses are his own. 

[Fragile Bird]

7 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Eh, I don't think it's unfair to look at it this way. His party has the House. They couldn't get enough support from their own fucking party to even bring this Bill to the floor. You don't get to point at the other side when you fail at unifying your own party. He doesn't get to pass the buck to the opposition here. His excuses are his own. 

Oh, I agree. That's why I asked the question, did a single Republican vote for the ACA. But you said there was no vote at all, I'm just saying Trump was complaining about no Democrats supporting the bill. For crying out loud he even said "when they get civilized"!!! What a POS. A guy who led chants of Lock her up against their candidate.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Eh, I don't think it's unfair to look at it this way. His party has the House. They couldn't get enough support from their own fucking party to even bring this Bill to the floor. You don't get to point at the other side when you fail at unifying your own party. He doesn't get to pass the buck to the opposition here. His excuses are his own. 

I have to wonder if people like Limbaugh and Hannity, and other talk radio conservative knuckleheads, will try to sell this story that it's the Democrats fault.

I'm also curious if average Republicans will buy this too.

Also, I like to know, why any of these people think the Democrats shouldn't play hardball here.

[all swedes are racist]

FB, cmon, you should know hypocrisy is worth less than even the basest political coin

[Fragile Bird]

5 minutes ago, r'hllor's red lobster said:

FB, cmon, you should know hypocrisy is worth less than even the basest political coin

I expect hypocrisy to be the common coin in politics, it's true. But this guy is the president. He's supposed to care about Americans. Especially this president, who for years has been portraying himself as an outsider and promised to fight for the little folk who are also outsiders. Instead he says, oh I'll just wait until everything collapses, then they'll come crawling to me. What a shit.

[OldGimletEye]

http://www.salon.com/2017/03/15/let-it-collapse-republicans-unite-around-a-strategy-of-blaming-democrats-for-obamacare-repeal-problems/

Quote

“Let it collapse,” Graham said on Fox News on Monday. “Then challenge the Democratic Party.”

On Wednesday Graham predicted on conservative talk-radio host Hugh Hewitt’s show that “Democrats are not going to lift a finger to help President Trump,” and repeated his urging to “let it collapse” even if that would result in millions losing health insurance coverage.

Oh so the Republican Party's strategy here is to blame the Democrats, for their own effing failure, then think they are going to strong arm them when the ACA allegedly (accord to Rs) collapses?

Is this the part where we give the Republican Party the finger and tell them to go to hell?

[Fragile Bird]

The Republicans have this 'death spiral' mantra that they keep repeating, yet there are many analyses of the ACA saying it is not in a death spiral.  The best thing that could happen would be that moderate Republicans reach out to Democrats and start working on ACA fixes. Maybe it would also be a mighty fine thing for the ACA to keep on going, getting a little more expensive every year until the complaints of their voters finally move the Republicans.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I expect hypocrisy to be the common coin in politics, it's true. But this guy is the president. He's supposed to care about Americans. Especially this president, who for years has been portraying himself as an outsider and promised to fight for the little folk who are also outsiders. Instead he says, oh I'll just wait until everything collapses, then they'll come crawling to me. What a shit.

Let's remind ourselves exactly who we're dealing with here...

There's no bias when it comes to decency. This guy is empirically indecent. Hypocrisy is among the least of his deficiencies. 

[Kalbear]

6 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I honestly don't see there being any fallout from this, especially not for Trump.  Conservative voters stand for nothing.  That's been proven.  They voted for Trump, ffs.  

There is one thing they stand for - winning. Losers get chucked. 

[S John]

Are republicans going to take the 'blame Obama for this mess' approach for an indefinite amount of time until the ACA either fails or doesn't?  Are they going to use that angle on other issues as well?

More importantly, is that actually going to fly with voters?  

They bitched about Obamacare and how awful it was for 7 years and now they are just going to sit on it?  Especially since the promise of repeal and replace with something both better and cheaper (it's gonna be great you're gonna love it) came out of the president's mouth numerous times.  Now the plan is that there is no plan except blame the last guy and his party which doesn't actually control anything in the government.

There must be a limit to it somewhere, in terms of what the voters will accept.  My take on Republicans is that one thing they all have in common is a penchant for promoting accountability and personal responsibility.  This is at the core of a lot of conservative policy ideas and it's a general posturing that I can respect even if I don't usually agree with Republican policy.  But at what point does it kick in that the party of personal responsibility is looking a lot like the party of passing blame?

It's still so early in Trump's presidency that I don't think there are a lot of moderate conservatives out there who are willing to admit that Trump was a mistake.  Yet.  But if things continue the way they are, say 18 months from now when the midterm elections are looming, I can't imagine that the Repiblicans won't take some losses.  

I think that the time window for getting thier shit together is actually going to be pretty small.  This time next year it's going to be approaching midterm elections and Republican congressman will be forced to decide to either stay on the Trump train or turn on him to stay in thier seats.  And if that happens... we may actually wake up from this nightmare in 4 years.

[lokisnow]

I think there is no fall out. And the 2018 outcome remains unchanged: Republicans gain seats in the senate and lose seats in the house but maintain comfortable majorities in both.

[Darzin]

I don't know quite a few conservatives that aren't politicians are blaming Trump and/or the house. 

http://www.dailywire.com/news/14774/ryan-weve-got-obamacare-foreseeable-future-4-ben-shapiro

Quote

so, for seven long years the Republicans pledged to repeal Obamacare. Conservatives across the country elected them to a massive majority in the House. Then they elected them to a slim majority in the Senate. Then they elected President Trump, who stated over and over again that he would repeal Obamacare. And then Republicans couldn’t even get a vote through the House on repealing and replacing Obamacare. After three weeks -- THREE WEEKS! -- of actual work on this key issue, Republicans surrendered to the reality of Obamacare. 

1. The Gap Between Trumpism and Conservatism Isn’t Easily Bridged. After Trump won, there was a widespread sentiment among the chattering class on the right that victory could paper over ideological differences between Trumpian “nationalist populism” – a bizarre agglomeration of tariffs and tax cuts, regulatory cuts and spending increases, isolationism and militarism – and conservatism. Those differences burst out again when it came to policy making, for one very simple reason: Trump made a lot of promises that Republicans couldn’t keep, because they weren’t conservative promises. Speaker Ryan, in an attempt to give Trump what he wanted and give conservatives what they wanted, gave nobody what they wanted. And Republicans refused to simply repeal Obamacare rather than attempting to pass a godawful replacement package – in large measure because Trump would rather have Obamacare exist than sign onto a repeal of Obamacare that left Trump to fill the gaps.

That's from Ben Shapiro, and then this open letter from Mark Levin,

Quote

Mr. Ryan, you continue with your mantra, that the GOP is now a governing party not an opposition party. These are words that apply to you. You failed to develop a plan that embraced market capitalism and you did not involve the GOP conservatives in the early phases of drafting your plan. You tried to force this plan through, adopted a few changes, but mostly continued with big-government ideas and much of Obamacare's essential elements. The failure to govern is on the GOP leadership. And the failure to uphold the repeal promise with an actual repeal of most of Obamacare is also on the GOP leadership. These troubling circumstances could have been avoided.

Those are both from pretty deep inside the conservative media bubble, and I believe Glenn Beck has denounced the law and Breitbart earlier was pretty critical of it as well. I don't think Democrats will take the blame for this. I think the most likely scapegoat is Ryan. This bill was his idea from the beginning, it was his job to get the votes, and as we've seen with Boehner, a house speaker can always be replaced by a True Conservative^tm

[denstorebog]

3 hours ago, lokisnow said:

I think there is no fall out. And the 2018 outcome remains unchanged: Republicans gain seats in the senate and lose seats in the house but maintain comfortable majorities in both.

No fallout at all? I mean, I agree that if this is the only major fuckup between now and 2018, it's not gonna register in a meaningful way. But this has really drawn up the divisions inside the party. Freedom Caucus vs. Trump vs. Ryan vs. everyone stuck in between. There's going to be a lot of tension going forward, making it harder to keep the other promises. And if 2018 rolls around with no meaningful progress on either healthcare, the wall, tax cuts etc., it's gonna matter. I see this as the first domino that has fractured Trump's aura of invincibility and which has set the stage for some real power struggles in the year to come.

EDIT: Oh, and I do think we'll see another dip in approval in the coming week. That doesn't necessarily have any long-term implications for the midterms, but it gives Trump's Republican opponents more motivation to grow a backbone and put up more opposition.

[OldGimletEye]

Now everyone, be sure to call your local Republican Representative and say, "Ya did a heck of job there voting to repeal  Obamacare!!!!"

http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2017/03/republicans-air-ads-congratulating

Quote

Republicans Air Ads Congratulating Themselves On Repealing Obamacare

The Republican Party: Once again, proving that it really does surround itself with excellence.

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, denstorebog said:

No fallout at all? I mean, I agree that if this is the only major fuckup between now and 2018, it's not gonna register in a meaningful way. But this has really drawn up the divisions inside the party. Freedom Caucus vs. Trump vs. Ryan vs. everyone stuck in between. There's going to be a lot of tension going forward, making it harder to keep the other promises. And if 2018 rolls around with no meaningful progress on either healthcare, the wall, tax cuts etc., it's gonna matter. I see this as the first domino that has fractured Trump's aura of invincibility and which has set the stage for some real power struggles in the year to come.

EDIT: Oh, and I do think we'll see another dip in approval in the coming week. That doesn't necessarily have any long-term implications for the midterms, but it gives Trump's Republican opponents more motivation to grow a backbone and put up more opposition.

I think lokisnow is right.  The GOP and Trump can do nothing for the next year and come 2018 elections, still do fine.  Trump can talk about Democrats refusing cooperate and blame Washington bureaucrats, maybe toss Ryan under the bus.  There are plenty of scapegoats to feed to his blood-hungry base. 

Best case scenario maybe a few of the crazies stay home in Nov. 2018.

But they'll be able to circle the wagons again.  People almost expect a do-nothing Congress, and in the meantime Trump can make some flashy moves on the Executive side to appease the drooling, snot-faced base.

[Martell Spy]

 

Quote

 

I think lokisnow is right.  The GOP and Trump can do nothing for the next year and come 2018 elections, still do fine.  Trump can talk about Democrats refusing cooperate and blame Washington bureaucrats, maybe toss Ryan under the bus.  There are plenty of scapegoats to feed to his blood-hungry base. 

Best case scenario maybe a few of the crazies stay home in Nov. 2018.

But they'll be able to circle the wagons again.  People almost expect a do-nothing Congress, and in the meantime Trump can make some flashy moves on the Executive side to appease the drooling, snot-faced base.

 

 

Yeah, but even if Trump isn't ruined, the policy implications are enormous. Obamacare is staying and Obama will be seen as a historic President. This is a great week for America, even if our nightmare isn't over yet. This is a lot like the attack on Social Security. I guess we have to go through this crap every 12 years or so. I'm glad we made it through this one.

We're also one step closer to Ryan being feasted upon by the Freedom Caucus.

Ryan wounded by health care fiasco
But don't expect a coup attempt against the speaker.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/paul-ryan-future-health-care-obamacare-trump-236480

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crazydog7]

So, apparently, in a republican controlled senate and congress they couldn't get the numbers to pass the bill because. ....democrats????

[DMC]

The failure most certainly has fall out, both practically and politically.  In the immediate sense, it complicates the next agenda item - tax reform - because the Medicaid cuts found in the AHCA were a large part of how the GOP was going to ensure the tax reform did not lead to long term budget deficits.  This is required in order for tax reform to be passed without Democratic support.

In addition, the process clearly emboldened the Freedom Caucus, and subsequently further alienated moderates of the Tuesday group.  Many in the rank and file are indeed expressing decreased confidence in the administration and leadership's ability to build consensus on any major agenda item.  In other words, the failure has introduced the large amount of young Republican legislators to the reality of governance.

Politically, the failure hurts both Trump's professional reputation and public prestige, in a Neustadtian sense.  Trump's entire brand of getting "tired of winning" and making deals is inarguably damaged - even his most ardent supporters admit that.  As for his "professional reputation," which has to with Washington elites' perception of the president's ability and resolve to move legislation, I'll leave you with this:

Quote

But Thursday’s reality check came with a Trumpian dose of the surreal.

Mr. Trump appeared almost oblivious to the dire situation unfolding in the hours after he hosted a meeting with members of the House Freedom Caucus at the White House, where he made the case Mr. Winston pointed to — that not passing the health bill risks the rest of the Republican agenda.

In the midafternoon, a beaming Mr. Trump climbed into the rig of a black tractor-trailer, which had been driven to the White House for an event with trucking industry executives, honking the horn and posing for a series of tough-guy photos — one with his fists held aloft, another staring straight ahead, hands gripping the large wheel, his face compressed into an excited scream.

At a meeting inside shortly afterward, Mr. Trump announced that he was pressed for time and needed to go make calls for more votes.

A reporter informed him that the vote had already been called off.