US Politics: Kill (the) Bill

[Antonius Pius]

Quote

Trenga asked whether Trump’s past statements about banning Muslims would forever outweigh “enormous deference” a president is supposed to receive in national security matters.

Does the honourbale judge Trenga mean that the president's 'enormous deference' should have a standing in law?

[LongRider]

3 minutes ago, Antonius Pius said:

Does the honourbale judge Trenga mean that the president's 'enormous deference' should have a standing in law?

Well, the article goes on:

Quote

During a March 21 hearing on the case in federal court in Alexandria, Trenga asked whether Trump’s past statements about banning Muslims would forever outweigh “enormous deference” a president is supposed to receive in national security matters.

In his decision, he decided they did not.

“The Court cannot conclude for the purposes of the Motion that these statements, together with the President’s past statements, have effectively disqualified him from exercising his lawful presidential authority,” the judge wrote.

Sarah Isgur Flores, a Justice Department spokeswoman said officials there were pleased with the decision.

“As the Court correctly explains, the President’s Executive Order falls well within his authority to safeguard the nation’s security,” Flores said in a statement.

On the other side of the argument, Gadeir Abbas, an attorney representing the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said the ruling was disappointing but had little practical significance.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/mar/24/virginia-judge-gives-ok-to-new-trump-travel-ban/

[Antonius Pius]

Quote

“Were it issued by an executive other than the executive who made those previous statements, it wouldn’t be challenged in this way,” Trenga said during the Tuesday hearing.

A moot point since this ruling has no effect, but I'd like to know what evidence the judge has.

But perhaps I'm misunderstanding the system here.

[LongRider]

3 minutes ago, Antonius Pius said:

A moot point since this ruling has no effect, but I'd like to know what evidence the judge has.

But perhaps I'm misunderstanding the system here.

Well, IANAL so I can't really discuss the fine legal points of this ruling.  But what I can say, since this is a ruling in favor the EO, Trump could wave this around as propaganda that he is right and those other Activist Judges^TM were wrong.  I would imagine many of his base would eat that up as they, like me, don't have a good grip on how to decipher legalese either.  But this would be a 'win' for Trump if he says so.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Mexal said:

The thing that I think isn't getting enough play is Trump saying on camera that the best move politically is to let Obamacare fail and that's what he plans on doing. There needs to be more press on the fact he's the fucking president of everyone and it's his duty to not let a major system fail, which will include people dying, for political reasons but it's his job to fix it and save his people. Drives me nuts.

And can't this be framed as a failure of the "Free Market" in states where it's not working? I guess this is kind of a "California Bubble" issue for me, as it seems to be working pretty well here. It has been a boon for the HMO that I work for.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 Shameless Shills Gonna Shill Shamelessly...

 Judge Jeanine calls for Paul Ryan's job and claims that the Trumpinator is blameless....

 

 

[Antonius Pius]

But no collusion with Trump, they both agree.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 Shameless Shills Gonna Shill Shamelessly...

 Judge Jeanine calls for Paul Ryan's job and claims that the Trumpinator is blameless....

LOL. Yes, Ryan fucked up Trump's awesome (but non-existent) healthcare plan.

Seems that reasonable people would conclude that they are both nitwits.

[Commodore]

regardless of who is pushing it, Ryan absolutely should resign

this is analogous to David Cameron losing Brexit

[OldGimletEye]

Judge Jeanine is an idiot.

Is she just discovering that Ryan had no plan, Trump had no plan, the Republican Party had no plan and as Josh Barro, says, the Republican Party was lying its ass off for seven years?

This is news to her? What in the fuck did she expect?

[LongRider]

3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

LOL. Yes, Ryan fucked up Trump's awesome (but non-existent) healthcare plan.

Seems that reasonable people would conclude that they are both nitwits.

Early in the process Prez Loser Man whined that no one knew health care was so hard!     So he just gave up, got to play Trucker Man and tooted the horn of a big rig then went golfing.    Hmmmm, the brave Sir Trumpy rode off on a golf cart into the sunset.

 

[LongRider]

Read that while Trumpy was still playing in truck, he said he had to make some more phone calls for yes votes on Trumpcare, but then this happened;

 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Commodore said:

regardless of who is pushing it, Ryan absolutely should resign

this is analogous to David Cameron losing Brexit

Yes. And maybe this time the Republicans can finally get themselves a "true conservative".

Maybe one will appear from the mist, like Brigadoon Style.

Anyway, it doesn't matter to me one iota what happens to Ryan. He certainly deserves some blame here - the fraud.

But, this failure goes deeper than him. Start with the Republican Party sellin bullshit for years. And there was Trump sellin bullshit, mumbling something lame about "across state lines".

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Nasty LongRider said:

Read that while Trumpy was still playing in truck, he said he had to make some more phone calls for yes votes on Trumpcare, but then this happened;

 

LOL.

[LongRider]

5 minutes ago, Triskan said:

Yeah, it's not like the Republican message was just "it's not the government's job..." they really tried to push an idea that not only was Obamacare bad but that they could deliver something better magically.  They were utterly full of shit.  

Something that would magically please the TRUE CONSERVATIVES^TM but of course that didn't happen.  Ryan not only failed to get the votes, he failed conservatism.  Bwahahahahaha!!!   Bet he keeps his job tho, and why not, I'd like to see him suffer some more. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

8 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Yes. And maybe this time the Republicans can finally get themselves a "true conservative".

Maybe one will appear from the mist, like Brigadoon Style.

Anyway, it doesn't matter to me one iota what happens to Ryan. He certainly deserves some blame here - the fraud.

But, this failure goes deeper than him. Start with the Republican Party sellin bullshit for years. And there was Trump sellin bullshit, mumbling something lame about "across state lines".

Yeah, the frustrating part, as a citizen and a human being, is that we've suspected (I won't say 'known' although it's probably the more accurate word) that the GOP had no better option than the ACA, and that any repeal or replacement or combination thereof was simply a half-hearted guise for a money grab for super elites.  This is a party that has abandoned anything more than the barest pretense of representative healthcare policy in favor condemning the middle and lower classes to punitive medical costs that eliminate the possibility of social mobility.  But hey at least being unable to afford care is a choice.  Freedom!  Liberty of security any day, amirite!!! 

 

***pukes***

 

 

[denstorebog]

4 hours ago, Darryk said:

I got to say, it's beautiful to see the system of checks and balances built into the government actually working.

America is far from perfect and has failed many times to live up to its own ideals, but the people who designed the system of government clearly knew what they were doing. I thought Trump and Bannon would test it to the limit, but so far it's holding up.

I am really puzzled by this sentiment. Sometimes I feel that the glorification of the founding fathers is way over the top.

I certainly don't see the fact that USA is still functional after 2 months of Trump as a testament to any plan of theirs. Right now, we're incredibly lucky that the one thing that earned him such a fervent base - his brutish behavior and absolute disregard for other people - is also what is causing headaches for him now. A slightly less unhinged nationalist without ties to Russia would have been quite a different story. Someone with the patience to spend a month on healthcare might have gotten rid of Obamacare and scored a major policy win here, paving the way for ramming a real nationalist agenda through and consolidating power. This can still happen.

And this is completely disregarding the things that are already happening. Bannon's slow demolition of the state apparatus, the insertion of Trump loyalists in all branches of government, the growing radicalization of the Trump base, the war against the media, etc. etc. After two goddamn months. The Muslim ban hasn't been 'repeatedly struck down', it's been put on hold twice; first because of the administration's incompetence in formulating actual policy, and now more out of principle, after which it will move to a stacked Supreme Court and quite possibly pass.

I'd love to share your optimism, but I don't see anything self-regulatory about the system right now. Sessions came really close to taking the baton on investigating Trump, and now it has passed to Nunes, who is obviously compromised as well. We have no idea what the FBI is digging up, but we do know that the person in charge of the investigation helped win Trump the election. My point being, there's a decent chance that a psychopath toddler who has sold his own country out to its archenemy and is now eroding the concept of accountability will get away with it all and stay in power for God knows how long, with absolutely no one but the voices in his head and a group of far-right congressmen to stand in his way.

What USA really needs to do is abandon the 2-party system. Allow for a broad spectrum of parties allows people to align themselves with the one that matches their exact political positions. Force the leading party to create a majority coalition like many countries here in Europe. This creates more diversity in government, forces compromise, encourages people to reflect on their stances on different issues instead of just picking the usual party option. Yes, you would actually be able to vote for fiscal responsibility without being a homophobic shithead!

Most importantly it would soften the polarizing 'us vs. them' mentality that makes people identify with a party decades after that party has stopped caring about their interests, simply because the only other option is unthinkable.

[Darryk]

6 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

I am really puzzled by this sentiment. Sometimes I feel that the glorification of the founding fathers is way over the top.

I certainly don't see the fact that USA is still functional after 2 months of Trump as a testament to any plan of theirs. Right now, we're incredibly lucky that the one thing that earned him such a fervent base - his brutish behavior and absolute disregard for other people - is also what is causing headaches for him now. A slightly less unhinged nationalist without ties to Russia would have been quite a different story. Someone with the patience to spend a month on healthcare might have gotten rid of Obamacare and scored a major policy win here, paving the way for ramming a real nationalist agenda through and consolidating power. This can still happen.

And this is completely disregarding the things that are already happening. Bannon's slow demolition of the state apparatus, the insertion of Trump loyalists in all branches of government, the growing radicalization of the Trump base, the war against the media, etc. etc. After two goddamn months. The Muslim ban hasn't been 'repeatedly struck down', it's been put on hold twice; first because of the administration's incompetence in formulating actual policy, and now more out of principle, after which it will move to a stacked Supreme Court and quite possibly pass.

I'd love to share your optimism, but I don't see anything self-regulatory about the system right now. Sessions came really close to taking the baton on investigating Trump, and now it has passed to Nunes, who is obviously compromised as well. We have no idea what the FBI is digging up, but we do know that the person in charge of the investigation helped win Trump the election. My point being, there's a decent chance that a psychopath toddler who has sold his own country out to its archenemy and is now eroding the concept of accountability will get away with it all and stay in power for God knows how long.

What USA really needs to do is abandon the 2-party system. Allow for a broad spectrum of parties allows people to align themselves with the one that matches their exact political positions. Force the leading party to create a majority coalition like many countries here in Europe. This creates more diversity in government, forces compromise, encourages people to reflect on their stances on different issues instead of just picking the usual party option. Yes, you would actually be able to vote for fiscal responsibility without being a homophobic shithead!

Most importantly it would soften the polarizing 'us vs. them' mentality that makes people identify with a party decades after that party has stopped caring about their interests, simply because the only other option is unthinkable.

I admit I'm looking at it as an outsider who's seen so many other political systems become an absolute joke, so I tend to romanticize the American system a little bit. There is a lot of corruption, but there does seem to be some kind of fabric holding it all together, for now anyway.

Or maybe it's just that Trump and Bannon are really bad wannabe dictators, who are too incompetent to succeed in overthrowing the checks and balances.

That said, they are getting away with a lot of stuff on the down low that the media is not reporting on enough. Their anti-environmental policies, Republican's attempts to do away with Net Neutrality, and Bannon's fundamentalism are all things that could impact the entire world in negative ways, not just the USA. So we're all rooting for the US system to succeed at holding these morons in check.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Triskan said:

Yeah, it's not like the Republican message was just "it's not the government's job..." they really tried to push an idea that not only was Obamacare bad but that they could deliver something better magically.  They were utterly full of shit.  

We believe in all these things.....cross our hearts and hope to die.....

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

7 minutes ago, Darryk said:

I admit I'm looking at it as an outsider who's seen so many other political systems become an absolute joke, so I tend to romanticize the American system a little bit. There is a lot of corruption, but there does seem to be some kind of fabric holding it all together, for now anyway.

Or maybe it's just that Trump and Bannon are really bad wannabe dictators, who are too incompetent to succeed in overthrowing the checks and balances.

That said, they are getting away with a lot of stuff on the down low that the media is not reporting on enough. Their anti-environmental policies, Republican's attempts to do away with Net Neutrality, and Bannon's fundamentalism are all things that could impact the entire world in negative ways, not just the USA. So we're all rooting for the US system to succeed at holding these morons in check.

I agree with some of your points, but let's not kid ourselves, our system has become a complete joke. It is now much closer to a Corporatist Oligarchy than it is a Representative Republic. Let's not kid ourselves.