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US Politics: Kill (the) Bill


Kalbear

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Is the Trump Nato Invoice thing Fake News?

The only source I could find about that was that an official German Government spokesperson denied it. But they'd deny it even if it were true. And I generally trust the Times, whom I believe originally broke the story.

On the other hand, it does seem like a too good to be true type deal.

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2 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

 http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/218/674/6e7.jpg

 

/Do you remember where you weren't when you didn't hear that nothing had happened?

Let's do a little association game with the last GOP administration:  "Bowling Green Massacre" = Iraq has WMDs.  Intentionally allowing a terrorist attack = 9/11 Truthers.

1 hour ago, Inigima said:

Because I think this Republican Congress has demonstrated repeatedly that it is prepared, in a historically unprecedented way, to ignore his abuses? Is this somehow not obvious?

Sorry no, it is not obvious that their reticence is historically unprecedented.  Copartisans never want to investigate their president, they are forced to - either by public/media pressure, being in the majority, or as a response to Justice Department investigations.  Take Iran/Contra for example - a scandal that is likely to have had far more administration officials committing actual, indictable crimes, and treasonous crimes at that.  Republican Congressmen did everything they could to sabotage the investigation from the get-go:

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The shredded documents and shredded memories of the White House cover-up are usually blamed for the failure of the committees to uncover ''all of the facts.'' But there are other reasons, namely the limitations that the committees imposed upon themselves or allowed to be imposed on them. They began the investigation by immediately imposing an unrealistic deadline for ending it. They agreed to permit the White House to review all internal documents for ''relevance'' before being released to investigators. They made no attempt to locate and make evidentiary use of Presidential calendars, nor did they seek Presidential telephone logs...

Most important, senior members of the Senate committee, which played the dominant role, agreed from the outset that specific evidence of a Presidential ''act of commission'' would be necessary before Reagan himself would become a target. No amount of Presidential negligence or nonfeasance, they decided, would justify a potential impeachment proceeding that could be dangerous for the nation...

There had been pressure from Republicans to limit the investigation to two or three months, and the August deadline initially was viewed as a reasonable compromise, indeed a victory for those who insisted on a solid investigation.

I can only imagine the uproar of "the end of democracy" on this board if a bipartisan committee resolved to do the bolded vis-a-vis Trump.  Anyway, the committees' report was still not toothless enough for most Republicans involved - 2 of 5 GOP Senators and 6 or 7 GOP congressmen instead drafted a minority report that blamed congressional democrats for the confusion (sound familiar?)

For a more apples to apples comparison - where Republicans held unified government - let's take the Valerie Plame affair.  A special prosecutor (Fitzgerald) was appointed in December 2003 after a three month FBI investigation, at which point Ashcroft recused himself.  Fortunately in this case, Sessions has already recused himself.

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46 minutes ago, r'hllor's red lobster said:

congrats on having the acuity to address this when it was brought up

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/26/trump-expertly-trolls-angela-merkel-with-outrageous-invoice-for-unpaid-nato-defenses/

It isn't only the International Media and Left-leaning media pushing the news ...

29 minutes ago, White Walker Texas Ranger said:

Is the Trump Nato Invoice thing Fake News?

The only source I could find about that was that an official German Government spokesperson denied it. But they'd deny it even if it were true. And I generally trust the Times, whom I believe originally broke the story.

On the other hand, it does seem like a too good to be true type deal.

The only repudiation that I can find is from a WH spokesperson. Their credibility is ... poor.

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On 3/24/2017 at 11:13 PM, S John said:

 My take on Republicans is that one thing they all have in common is a penchant for promoting accountability and personal responsibility.

Trump received 60+ million votes.  It's unlikely there is anything that they ALL have in common.

 

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Memories of conservative trash talking past: When conservatives celebrate final victory a little too prematurely.

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/11/obamas-waterloo-finally-came

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President Obama went to Washington in 2009 with full control of Congress. They — and they alone — are responsible for handing Trump full control of Congress when he comes to office in January.

Obama Democrats used their power to force Obamacare on people who didn’t want it. Trump Republicans will use theirs to undo the massive mistake.

Without a doubt, no one expected the political remedy to President Obama’s forceful legislating to come from President Trump.

But, this is political war and it’s ugly. The Democrats never should have started it.

Welcome to Waterloo.

It would seem though it’s the Democrats that are holding the ridge line around Mont Saint Jean, not the Republican Party.

Now let's just hope Blucher is marching towards the sound of guns on his way to roll up the Republican flank. Perhaps he will make it. At least Republicans should be looking over their shoulder it would seem:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/gop-fallout-health-care-fiasco-just-getting-started

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It’s not surprising that Republicans are eager to move on from the health care fight they picked. The entire endeavor was an embarrassing failure, exposing intra-party divisions and governing challenges that are likely to dog the GOP for many months to come.

But their Democratic rivals intend to make sure the political fallout is even more painful. NBC News reported over the weekend:

 

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1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

Let's do a little association game with the last GOP administration:  "Bowling Green Massacre" = Iraq has WMDs.  Intentionally allowing a terrorist attack = 9/11 Truthers.

Sure, I'm not suggesting that this equals a false flag. It was more a comic aside than anything else.  

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2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Sure, I'm not suggesting that this equals a false flag. It was more a comic aside than anything else.  

Gotcha, hard to tell sometimes.  In that respect, I enjoyed Colbert's rundown:

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“Tragically, Sweden is the third not-a-terrorist-attack that has not shocked the world in the last month,” Colbert said, citing Kellyanne Conway’s “Bowling Green massacre” and Sean Spicer’s Atlanta incident. “When will it begin?!” he asked in mock outrage. “And just because it didn’t happen doesn’t mean we don’t stand in solidarity with all the people who did not suffer.”

 

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Russians against buffoons mucking up their country.

Americans against buffoons mucking up their country as well.

Maybe we should get together and go bowling sometime.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/03/26/hundreds_arrested_at_huge_anti_corruption_protests_across_russia.html

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Tens of thousands of people gathered in Moscow and other major cities across Russia on Sunday to protest against official government corruption in what certainly looked like the largest show of anti-Kremlin defiance since 2012. Hundreds of people were arrested, including prominent opposition figure Alexey Navalny, who was one of the main organizers of the rally. Navalny fueled outrage by releasing a video that alleged the country’s prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev, had amassed a huge fortune as a public servant.

 

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4 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Colbert is a big fave of mine as well. I still miss his old persona though.

Me too.  Gotta admit, while I DVR'd and watched virtually every episode of Colbert Report, I only catch his CBS show on occasion.

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Trump about to sign an EO putting a stop to all that pesky climate change regulation.

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President Trump will sign an executive order Tuesday to curb federal regulations combating climate change, reversing a major Obama-era legacy.

Probably a bigger disaster for the American people (and the world too) than if the healthcare bill had passed into law and the original Muslim ban had been upheld by the courts and implemented. And this one one basically can't be challenged.

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Just now, The Anti-Targ said:

Trump about to sign an EO putting a stop to all that pesky climate change regulation.

Probably a bigger disaster for the American people (and the world too) than if the healthcare bill had passed into law and the original Muslim ban had been upheld by the courts and implemented. And this one one basically can't be challenged.

Trump making America (and well the world too) Hot and Humid Again, like back in the days of the Dinosaurs or something.

But don't worry, I'm sure wealthy people will have lots of access to air conditioning and water. So it's all good.

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18 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Trump about to sign an EO putting a stop to all that pesky climate change regulation.

Probably a bigger disaster for the American people (and the world too) than if the healthcare bill had passed into law and the original Muslim ban had been upheld by the courts and implemented. And this one one basically can't be challenged.

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"To the extent that the economy is strong and growing and you have prosperity, that is the best way to protect the environment."

As demonstrated, say, in China...

Ignorance is Strength.

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Trump to actually see if he can engage with Democrats on healthcare?

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WASHINGTON (AP) " Regrouping after a rocky few weeks, the White House declared Monday that President Donald Trump doesn't consider the health care battle to be over, suggesting he may turn to Democrats to help him overhaul the system after his own party rejected his proposal.

The sudden interest in bipartisanship is a shift for a president who has spent months mocking Democratic leaders as inept. And Democrats indicated they have no interest if his intent is still to dismantle "Obamacare."

But Trump's interest reflects the strained state of his relations with conservatives in his party and his search for a way to regain his footing after the painful withdrawal of his health care legislation last Friday.

Seriously, if Trump was actually committed to the sort of healthcare system that he famously talked about in that interview - affordable healthcare for every American, I'm gonna look after everyone. It is probably something the Democrats should at least consider having an exploratory meeting with him over.

But any legislation with majority Democrat support just won't get put on the House agenda, since Ryan is the gatekeeper, and as much as he was pilloried by the HFC and others for the bill he did almost put forward, he'd be tarred and feathered by an even larger group of Republicans for putting forward a Democrat-Trump stitch up.

More likely he thinks he can back the Republicans into a corner by threatening to work with Democrats. Only if the congressional Republicans are monumentally stupid would they fall for it. They aren't that stupid are they?

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6 hours ago, Wethers said:

As demonstrated, say, in China...

Ignorance is Strength.

Funny that you mention China, as recently they've started investing heavily in renewable energy, a move that will create about 13 million jobs by 2020. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/world/asia/china-renewable-energy-investment.html

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8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Trump about to sign an EO putting a stop to all that pesky climate change regulation.

Probably a bigger disaster for the American people (and the world too) than if the healthcare bill had passed into law and the original Muslim ban had been upheld by the courts and implemented. And this one one basically can't be challenged.

Downside of rule by pen and phone. Obama couldn't get cap and trade through Congress so he tried to achieve the same effect by executive decree. 

Although I am sure a judge can be found to rule that what was done cannot be undone, illogical as that may seem. 

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1 hour ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Funny that you mention China, as recently they've started investing heavily in renewable energy, a move that will create about 13 million jobs by 2020https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/world/asia/china-renewable-energy-investment.html

Now here is what bothers me about Trump and his retrograde ideas about job creation.  He wants to 'bring jobs back' instead of looking at where we are now, and seeing what the potential and opportunities are for new industries and creation of new jobs.  Research and development and installation and maintenance of renewable energy in this country?  I mean a real 'lets go to the moon' effort would make such a difference.

But since Reagan pulled the solar panels off the Whitehouse, the R's have hated solar energy and so it's development in this country has been so tepid. So much lost opportunity!  Now the Chinese will be showing the USA how it's done.  

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13 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

The sky is falling, or will fall, with the weakening/gutting of the EPA.  The damage that can be done in a short period of time is very difficult to impossible to fix, and the effects aren't necessarily immediately observable.  Our water and land are going to be poisoned on a greater scale than we've previously seen, and in the meantime water and other natural resources are going to be funneled into corporate possession.  You can't unring that bell.

Funnily, there's been a lot of stories recently (like this one) about how Scott Pruitt actually hasn't been weakening the EPA (yet, at least) nearly as much as conservatives hoped he would, and has been pushing back against some of Trump's proposed budget cuts. His critics are complaining that Pruitt wants to run for senator or governor some day, and doesn't want his record to be too hard-right.

That may be part of it, but I think a large part is also that, like a lot of Great Plains Republicans, Pruitt likes the non-climate change parts of the EPA. There's plenty of statements from him talking about the importance of the EPA's environmental conservation work, brownfield cleanup grants, etc. He's certainly no fan of the climate change-related work, but unlike Trump, doesn't seem to want to basically eliminate the agency.

Which means that, so far, its been Trump executive actions and these CRA bills that are doing the real damage, not the EPA.

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