tblackjacks Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I'm re-reading Storm of Swords right now and I just read the chapter where Barristan (as Arstan) talks to Dany about the Kingdom in her father's days. While he's sure not to say much bad about Aerys or Rhaegar, he seems to really have a hard time saying anything good about Dayne. I don't know too much about Dayne, but I never remember him being described as a particularly vicious character. Have I missed something about him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I am sure they were cool. Maybe it was awkward for Barristan to be around Arthur once he developed feelings for Ashara? I wish we could have seen the scene where Arthur, Barristan and Jaime took on Kingswood Brotherhood, the amount of badassness in that scene... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 It could be because Ser. Arthur was sitting around in Dorne while Ser. Barristan was fighting for his life and the Targaryen monarchy on the Trident. He could be upset 3 of his Kingsguard brothers abandoned him to baby sit a pregnant women in a Tower no one would find unless 3 famous Kingsguard stood in front of it. Just a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shi Qiang Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Maybe it was Dayne who dishonored Ashara. Just because someone was good at their job doesn't mean they were easy to get along with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Yozza Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I can't recall the passage and my copy of the book is on loan to a friend. Could you please post the relevant passage so I know what is being discussed and can contribute? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of a rift in the Kingsguard between those who felt more loyalty to Rhaegar and those that would stay true to the king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Do you have a quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Allardyce said: Maybe it was Dayne who dishonored Ashara. Just because someone was good at their job doesn't mean they were easy to get along with. Then maybe the quote about Rhaegar loving Lyanna would be for? Or the word that Rhaegar died saying, revealed by GRRM as "Lyanna" would be for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 5 hours ago, Trigger Warning said: I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of a rift in the Kingsguard between those who felt more loyalty to Rhaegar and those that would stay true to the king. I'd imagine so. Just like the lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 11 hours ago, tblackjacks said: I'm re-reading Storm of Swords right now and I just read the chapter where Barristan (as Arstan) talks to Dany about the Kingdom in her father's days. While he's sure not to say much bad about Aerys or Rhaegar, he seems to really have a hard time saying anything good about Dayne. I don't know too much about Dayne, but I never remember him being described as a particularly vicious character. Have I missed something about him? I don't get the same impression. When Selmy is stripped of his white cloak by Joffrey he mentions three of the men he had the honor to serve with - Quote I fought beside the White Bull and Prince Lewyn of Dorne ... beside Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. (AGoT 520) Of all the men who were his brothers in the Kingsguard he lists Ser Arthur amongst those three. I don't see a problem between the two men. Unless it is the closeness Ser Arthur had with Rhaegar. There may have been a bit of jealousy about that, but it isn't in regard to how honorable he thought Ser Arthur was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 10 hours ago, Allardyce said: Maybe it was Dayne who dishonored Ashara. Just because someone was good at their job doesn't mean they were easy to get along with. Er... you do realize that you are proposing daycest, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, Ygrain said: Er... you do realize that you are proposing daycest, right? Well Jamie did want to be just like Arthur Dayne so maybe it can't be ruled out entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Lol, but twincest started way before Jaime even knew Arthur... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Solid point! Maybe he saw that Arthur did the same and that was the deciding factor that made him want to be just like Arthur Dayne? He figured if Arthur does it he can contniue to do it as well and still be an honorable knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000th Lord Commander Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I'd like to see the quote as well, but if there was any rift, it may have been due to Rheagar's closeness with Dayne, whereas Barristan seems more loyal to the institution of the KG, if not Aerys himself. I am wondering if there was a subtle competition between the two to be seen as successor to the Lord Commander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaedys Targaryen Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 15 hours ago, Trigger Warning said: I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of a rift in the Kingsguard between those who felt more loyalty to Rhaegar and those that would stay true to the king. I agree; doesn't Maester Pycelle say in the AWOIAF book that there were factions between the men at court, with the younger men supporting Rhaegar and the older men supporting Aerys? If that was the case, I believe that the rift extended to the Kingsguard and Barristan was the one who supported Aerys, since he was a little bit older and the younger Arthur supported Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Vaedys Targaryen said: I agree; doesn't Maester Pycelle say in the AWOIAF book that there were factions between the men at court, with the younger men supporting Rhaegar and the older men supporting Aerys? If that was the case, I believe that the rift extended to the Kingsguard and Barristan was the one who supported Aerys, since he was a little bit older and the younger Arthur supported Rhaegar. Which is why LC Hightower's presence when Ned and his companions arrived is a big red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover of the Morning Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I never got the impression that Barristan (or anyone for that matter) had a low opinion of Arthur Dayne. It's been awhile since I read ASoS but I think Dany mentions that Viserys told her that Rhaegar was the best fighter ever and only Arthur could somewhat match him. Barristan answers in a very diplomatic manner as he doesn't want to reveal too much and also doesn't want to offend Dany by badmouthing her brothers. He doesn't overpraise Arthur or Barristan even if he clearly thinks that they were superior fighters compared to Rhaegar, partly because he doesn't want to blow his cover and partly because he's quite humble and tends to downplay achievements by himself as well as others. If anything, Barristan might have been a little jealous of Arthur's closeness to the Prince and/or he may have some regrets over the fact that they didn't share their plans with him and the rest of the KGs. Barristan could be rightfully resentful of Arthur over his involvement in Lyanna and Rhaegar's elopement, which led to the deaths of so many people. However, Barry has nothing but good things to say about Rhaegar so if he doesn't blame the "master", he can't be mad at the "servant" for following orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 0:20 AM, Ygrain said: Er... you do realize that you are proposing daycest, right? A+A=J confirmed But why stop there. A+A=J+D Or why not A+A=J+D+A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Ser Arthur Dayne is just as complicated a character as Jaime: Quote A Storm of Swords - Jaime VIII "As you learned from Ser Boros and Ser Meryn?" That arrow hit too close to the mark. "I learned from the White Bull and Barristan the Bold," Jaime snapped. "I learned from Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, who could have slain all five of you with his left hand while he was taking with a piss with the right. I learned from Prince Lewyn of Dorne and Ser Oswell Whent and Ser Jonothor Darry, good men every one." When Jaime still had his right hand, he 'took a piss' or 'took the piss' -- symbolically, that 's the element of 'befouling the white cloak' (like Lem's 'lemoncloak' full of piss), the oathbreaking and corruption. The left-handedness is associated with more 'noble deeds'. Arthur Dayne's ambidexterity -- mirrored by Jaime's learning arc -- is important to suggest that there are no perfect 'white knights'. Everyone is 'right' (which is actually 'wrong' in GRRM's skewed scheme) as well as 'left' Latin 'sinister' (which is actually 'right' and the opposite of sinister)! Everyone has a skeleton in the closet: Quote A Storm of Swords - Jaime VI "I swore an oath to keep him safe," she said to Rhaegar's shade. "I swore a holy oath." "We all swore oaths," said Ser Arthur Dayne, so sadly. I'm not sure, however, what Dayne's skeleton may entail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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