LGBTQ+ 5 -- Now With More Gender Outlaws

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

On 7/19/2017 at 7:24 PM, Xray the Enforcer said:

I started shopping for a binder today and I am not sure how I feel about it.

Please forgive my ignorance, what is a binder? I googled binder and got nothing, and then when I googled binder and woman I got a lot of Mitt Romney stuff. 

[karaddin]

I'm not at all surprised its weird, I certain wouldn't enjoy squashing my boobs down but I can certainly understand how psychological need can drive that (I didn't tuck much, but I definitely got the impulse). Initial response is weird positive, weird neutral or weird negative?

A binder is a piece of clothing that compresses (ie binds) breasts down so they aren't visible as a trait to gender you.

[rocksniffer]

2 hours ago, drawkcabi said:

I'm popping in here just to say I'm wishing everyone the best.

The moldy orange tribblehead is not going to get away with this. You have allies...you have friends...standing with you. You don't need us, you are strong enough for this fight on your own, even today you are stronger now than at any other time in history. But you will not be on your own in any case, we are here to fight with you.

                      

                                   

                                                                

 

so much this ^^^ thank you to drawkcabi for articulating it perfectly...as a vet i also stand and support the right of anyone willing to serve...who knew me and john mccain could find common ground...

 

also as an update...Princess came to me yesterday to discuss what it meant to be transgendered...holy fuck, i was afraid i might face this since she usually asks me questions about military news and events, etc. but i was pleasantly surprised when she was quite well informed on transgender issues but could not grasp how the government could discharge someone just for their sex and/or sexual prefs...i think i was never so proud of her, she voiced an articulate position and supported it with logical arguments...so grown up

of course she followed it up with forgetting wednesday is garbage day (day we collect trash and put out cans for thursday pick up...something she has had to do for more than 10 yrs, every wednesday ) ...ah well such is life

 

and hey @Xray the Enforcer might i add as a salty old dawg who loves you...bind away i have always been more of leg man

ETA: just commented to SwmbO and she told me back in the 80s she used a binder, but abandoned it after a couple of months so she could quit explaining that she had not had surgery or cancer or other such intrusive inquiries...she sends love and wishes you "good binding"...on the positive side she says at least it gets them out of your way while shooting pool

 

[Weeping Sore]

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 9:45 PM, Xray the Enforcer said:

 I love you all.

I think to pinpoint some of the unsettledness -- I keep asking myself "what's the point?" So much of the narrative around gender dysphoria is about transition -- and that's great! I am not criticizing anyone who decides to transition whatsoever. But I do not think I will ever transition, because "female" is part of who I am...it's just not ALL of who I am. So it just feels weird to decide "well, now it's time to wear a really uncomfortable article of clothing to dispel my increasing alienation from my boobs" and have that be the end-point, rather than a beginning. 

There were a couple of essays that covered femme nonbinary/femme MTF individuals (I need to dig those up again), and while those essays did absolutely nothing for me in a solution sense, it felt validating to know that others acknowledge the struggles of AFAB femme people who strongly affiliate with being male, at least some of the time. 

Note: while I'm struggling to articulate myself, I will probably say something badly. If I do, and you're hurt by it, please let me know so I can apologize/correct myself. It is not malicious, but I also recognize that intent (or the lack thereof) does not erase an injury. 

For me it's supportive to know that for most of human history medical transition was impossible, so those of us who don't (or currently don't think they will) undergo such procedures are in good company.

I imagine binding to be somewhat comparable to tucking which is also somewhat uncomfortable- the result somewhat more pleasing to the eye than it is as a sensation. It's trading the psychic discomfort of dysphoria for the physical discomfort of binding/tucking, but the latter also seems to heighten awareness of something being there that you don't really want.

But...for me sometimes I'm totally ok with maleness, to the point where I think that I must be imagining my femaleness or caught up in a delusional complex...until it comes back again.

So the reality of being bigender/genderfluid is that transition wouldn't resolve it and aids to temporary ways of seeming to the self and to the world are legitimate. So get your binder and I'll go gaff shopping so I can look right in yoga pants!

[Lily Valley]

3 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

In happier news -- my binder arrived last night. It is...weird.

I love you X-Ray!

Also, I love you guys.   My beautiful 1860's wood tent is going on the market on Monday.  I am a little sad.  The chapter of my life of raising children and living in downtown New Orleans are both going to be over.  On the other hand, my darling is going to be moving here right around the time we'll be getting out of this place.  New chapter, new house, new neighborhood.   I'm a little worried about the last one.  I live in a very gay neighborhood at the moment.  Looking at a more family / working class area.  We've both ruled out living too close to a school.  It would make me sad and she doesn't love to wear clothes much (which makes me happy).   I will be giving potential new neighbors the third degree.

Wish us luck.

[felice]

9 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

In happier news -- my binder arrived last night. It is...weird.

If it's not sufficiently comfortable, do try other brands; they can fit quite differently.

[Xray the Enforcer]

3 hours ago, felice said:

If it's not sufficiently comfortable, do try other brands; they can fit quite differently.

Good to know! I will actually give it a proper test run this weekend -- I'd had a couple of drinks by the time the binder arrived last night and that's not ideal circumstances. The weirdness was really looking at the thing and how it fit and wondering how the shit I was supposed to wear this under shirts (and then realizing that dude-wear tends to be baggier than lady-wear). It just hammered home to me just how out of my comfort zone I'd just launched myself. So we'll see how I feel about it when I'm not three beers into the evening.  

[karaddin]

Well clearly thats just the wrong amount of beers, its either no beers or much more beers. No more half measures X.

[maarsen]

14 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Good to know! I will actually give it a proper test run this weekend -- I'd had a couple of drinks by the time the binder arrived last night and that's not ideal circumstances. The weirdness was really looking at the thing and how it fit and wondering how the shit I was supposed to wear this under shirts (and then realizing that dude-wear tends to be baggier than lady-wear). It just hammered home to me just how out of my comfort zone I'd just launched myself. So we'll see how I feel about it when I'm not three beers into the evening.  

A word to the wise here.  Hawaiian shirts are meant to be worn a size larger than one would normally wear. 

[Lily Valley]

13 hours ago, karaddin said:

Well clearly thats just the wrong amount of beers, its either no beers or much more beers. No more half measures X.

^^^ 4 oz does not equal All the Vodka.  May you have a great weekend.  I am packing and singing "Here Comes the Bride" to myself like a fucking idiot.

[ladderjhn]

Has anybody ever visited lifesitenews.com? Just wondering. My experience there a year ago was...let's just say...less than pleasing.

I got turned over to it by my friend's mom. She regularly posts on her facebook articles from the site, and I wanted to check it out. I saw that no one there was saying anything like, "Gay people should be able to adopt kids", or "Transgenders and homosexuals should have the same rights as others". So I took it under my wing to do that. I also told them that I was raised in the Catholic Church and went to Catholic schools from kindergarten to 12th grade.

They called me a Satanist.

For people who say that they love Jesus, you would think that they would remember Matthew 7:1-5 or at least the Golden Rule.

 

Anyway, I was at a drugstore where a transgender woman worked. I was at the register, and she was checking out a man who just kept being verbally abusive towards her. He told her that he was going to hack into her personal computer! (I don't know how he was going to do this unless he knew who she was but whatever).

After the manager came by and settled the issue, I comforted her and told her about my friend who was also a transgender but a man. I told her that today was just one day and that she shouldn't take it into account that one man was an asshole to her to make herself feel comfortable with herself in this world and in her life. I even told her that I had a disability related to my mental health and that I've had days like that too at my job where either my boss, a coworker, or a customer is either abusive or questioning of my stability (even though I know that my boss and coworkers are not legally supposed to do that because they are EEO).

The funny thing was that, after the debacle, the man got banned from the store. He asked if he could return the items he had bought, and the manager said, "No. I told you that you were banned."

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just came across this today. I DID NOT KNOW THAT!

 

/King James Bible should have some interesting footnotes.

[Xray the Enforcer]

I've started being more out at work. But sweet fancy Moses, it's difficult to describe a genderqueer identity to people who just experience a gender binary. I can barely articulate my gender identity to myself (bigender? afab transmasculine femme? void crab?), let alone to people who have never had to think about such things. But...I had a great conversation this weekend with another person who is afab genderqueer and is wrestling with presentation and identity. The sentence "I feel like a dude but god help me I really love wearing lipstick," made an appearance, which I think pretty well sums up how what's happening inside is totally incongruent with whatever is happening outside. We also mined that fertile territory of bisexual erasure and how much I hate the term "pansexual" even though that's probably the most correct term for people like my friend and me. Then someone unleashed a bottle of absinthe on the party and I fled to the kitchen. Anyway, it was a positive weekend all around. I still haven't taken the binder out for a spin, yet. Maybe later this fall.  

[Xray the Enforcer]

^^ Re King James. I knew about most of that, but had never seen the quote where he said it was OK because Jesus was totes gay for John the Apostle. Which is amazing and I'm going to unleash it during random arguments.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 hour ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

^^ Re King James. I knew about most of that, but had never seen the quote where he said it was OK because Jesus was totes gay for John the Apostle. Which is amazing and I'm going to unleash it during random arguments.

I didn't know any of this and got a good laugh from the whole thing. History once again trumps all other forms of storytelling.

[Denvek]

3 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

^^ Re King James. I knew about most of that, but had never seen the quote where he said it was OK because Jesus was totes gay for John the Apostle. Which is amazing and I'm going to unleash it during random arguments.

Puts a whole different spin on John constantly referring to himself as "the disciple whom Jesus loved".

[Robin Of House Hill]

3 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

I've started being more out at work. But sweet fancy Moses, it's difficult to describe a genderqueer identity to people who just experience a gender binary. I can barely articulate my gender identity to myself (bigender? afab transmasculine femme? void crab?), let alone to people who have never had to think about such things. But...I had a great conversation this weekend with another person who is afab genderqueer and is wrestling with presentation and identity. The sentence "I feel like a dude but god help me I really love wearing lipstick," made an appearance, which I think pretty well sums up how what's happening inside is totally incongruent with whatever is happening outside. We also mined that fertile territory of bisexual erasure and how much I hate the term "pansexual" even though that's probably the most correct term for people like my friend and me. Then someone unleashed a bottle of absinthe on the party and I fled to the kitchen. Anyway, it was a positive weekend all around. I still haven't taken the binder out for a spin, yet. Maybe later this fall.  

It is hard for people to fully understand that which they are not.  I can understand any of the non-binaries on a cognitive level, but I can never know what it actually feels like.  Everyone believes there is only one reality, but they fail to understand that they can never know what it is.  They can only perceive it through the filter of their own life experience and emotional makeup.

I guess the best we can hope for is someone saying, "I'll never know what that feels like, but if it works for you, I''m glad."

[Robin Of House Hill]

I came across this, today. I've been expecting it.  It's the inevitable backlash to visibility, and raising public awareness.  One of my definitions of insanity is providing people with a target, and expecting them not to shoot at it.  Anyone know of better strategies and tactics to survive this?

[Sivin]

4 hours ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

I've started being more out at work. But sweet fancy Moses, it's difficult to describe a genderqueer identity to people who just experience a gender binary. I can barely articulate my gender identity to myself (bigender? afab transmasculine femme? void crab?), let alone to people who have never had to think about such things. But...I had a great conversation this weekend with another person who is afab genderqueer and is wrestling with presentation and identity. The sentence "I feel like a dude but god help me I really love wearing lipstick," made an appearance, which I think pretty well sums up how what's happening inside is totally incongruent with whatever is happening outside. We also mined that fertile territory of bisexual erasure and how much I hate the term "pansexual" even though that's probably the most correct term for people like my friend and me. Then someone unleashed a bottle of absinthe on the party and I fled to the kitchen. Anyway, it was a positive weekend all around. I still haven't taken the binder out for a spin, yet. Maybe later this fall.  

 Glad to hear you're being more open. 

Personally, I've told like 6 people since last week and went out totally girl'd up for the first time yesterday. I think I'm going to go full time now except for work, which I should be quitting within a month if I'm lucky. 

[Xray the Enforcer]

On 9/4/2017 at 2:56 PM, Robin Of House Hill said:

I came across this, today. I've been expecting it.  It's the inevitable backlash to visibility, and raising public awareness.  One of my definitions of insanity is providing people with a target, and expecting them not to shoot at it.  Anyone know of better strategies and tactics to survive this?

Keep fighting. What other option is there except to walk into the sea? But yeah, this administration can go get fucked.