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Thought about last names


Scootaloo Stark

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I just noticed how different Westeros is from our modern world in one aspect.

All the nobles have a last/family name, which is super important to them. The smallfolk don't, unless they rise up or someone invents Lord names for them.

Exactly the opposite of what we have now. Everyone has a last name, only a few nobles and monarchs don't legally have one. Sure, their dynasties have names, but they're not and have never been as important.

Just a random thought :)

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1 minute ago, Scootaloo Stark said:

I just noticed how different Westeros is from our modern world in one aspect.

All the nobles have a last/family name, which is super important to them. The smallfolk don't, unless they rise up or someone invents Lord names for them.

Exactly the opposite of what we have now. Everyone has a last name, only a few nobles and monarchs don't legally have one. Sure, their dynasties have names, but they're not and have never been as important.

Just a random thought :)

I'd assume that its something to help keep the nobles straight for the readers. For example its easier to remember that Tyrion, Kevan and Jamie are related when they have the Lannister surnames rather than if it would be; Tyrion the Imp, Kevan of Casterly Rock and Jamie the Lion. I would also guess that since families are more stabile and lasting in Westeros than in our own Middle Ages, family names probably grew to become more important there.

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51 minutes ago, Scootaloo Stark said:

I just noticed how different Westeros is from our modern world in one aspect.

All the nobles have a last/family name, which is super important to them. The smallfolk don't, unless they rise up or someone invents Lord names for them.

Exactly the opposite of what we have now. Everyone has a last name, only a few nobles and monarchs don't legally have one. Sure, their dynasties have names, but they're not and have never been as important.

Just a random thought :)

Just a short list of the last names of some royal families:

Sweden:Bernadotte
Norway: Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg
Danmark: Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg
GB: Windsor
Netherlands: Oranje-Nassau
Belgium: Sachsen-Coburg
Spain: Bourbon
Luxemburg: Nassau
Monaco:Grimaldi

All royal families have last names, however, if we are talking about Queen Elizabeth, you can be pretty sure we mean: "Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor the Second".
The same goes for the king of my country, Willem Alexander. Media always just calls him that, in stead of his full name: "Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand van Oranje-Nassau".

In all official documents, the full name will definitely be written down, but when referring to the king or queen, you don't say the complete name. Same in Westeros. When talking about the King, they just say King Robert/Robb/Joffrey/Stannis/Renly/Balon/Tommen (yes, in that orderthe names would've been said), not their entire name.
When somebody mentions Lord Eddard (or even Ned), we all know they mean "Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell, Warden of the North".
People tend to skip last names when it is obvious who they are referring to.

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Well the British royal family carry the name Mountbatten-Windsor if they're descended from Elizabeth and Windsor if they're descended from George V the name is taken from the house but it's still used as a surname, everyone that's not a prince of princess use them and all the nobility in the UK have surnames, Percy, Howard, Seymour, Campbell, Somerset and FitzRoy to name a few. 

It's just redundant for a prince/princess or king/queen to also use their last name for most things. 

For example the queen uses Windsor on her marriage certificate despite being a princess.

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4 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

Elizabeth signs documents as Elizabeth R.

That would be short for "Elizabeth Regina", I believe, i.e. "Queen Elizabeth". (A king would use "Rex".)

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William and Harry were known as William Windsor and Henry (Harry) Windsor in the army. But no one else (ie. civilians) bothers, cause once you put the "Prince" in front of their first name, their last name becomes irrelevant because everyone knows who you're talking about.  Hell, tell someone that "Henry Windsor" did something important and they'll never know who you mean!  Most people forget his real name is Henry, not Harry, let alone remember he's a Windsor! Hell, refer to him as Prince Henry and you'll confuse a ton of people!

Basically, the use of any surname for official documents makes it an official surname.  That's how all surnames came about in the first place, the royal family just didn't need an "official" surname until more recently than the common folk...but when you're naming every other kid John or Mary, surnames among the lower classes become pretty important pretty quickly!  When you can toss a "Prince" in front of the kid you named John though, the surname was less essential before the age of paperwork and bureaucracy!  But "creating" a surname for official documents is *precisely* how to get a surname, whether you're royalty or not. 

Did you know that in Canada it is completely legal for a person (or married couple) to completely change their surname simply by filling out some paperwork?  I could go from "Scaletongue" to "Lannister" as quickly as it takes to fill out a shit ton of paperwork (so in my case....a few years...I procrastinate....).  For any name change not related to marriage I believe you also have to go in front of a judge to make it official - but a married couple can create a new surname without too much headache (I'm not sure if the judge is required in this case or not).  And you can put whatever surname you want on a newborn's paperwork, they don't actually require you to use one of the parents surnames.  I imagine the rules are *similar* elsewhere, especially elsewhere in the Commonwealth, but I've only ever done a Canadian birth certificate for a baby and a marriage name change...and I didn't go all crazy, mostly cause I didn't know I could until too late! LOL! Chances are my mother would have talked me out of it, though!  Which is probably why most people don't create new surnames....parents can be a pain in the butt!

ETA: Yup, William and Henry Wales (cause their dad's the Prince of Wales). Not Windsor.  But still a surname, and official by virtue of being on official documents.  Though admittedly, royal surnames are likely to change faster than civilian surnames.  William could be "William Cambridge" if he wanted to be, though depending on whether he's got to do as much paperwork as the rest of us he may not bother because, theoretically, he'll be the Prince of Wales soonish anyway (as the heir to the throne if his grandmother ever dies!) so I certainly wouldn't bother...but like I said, I procrastinate, so by the time I finished all the paperwork to be "Cambridge" I'd be "Wales" again! LOL!

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