Shouldve Taken The Black Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Hi all I’ve been mulling on a small theory for a while, and after @PrinceHenryris posted this OP http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145719-why-didnt-tywin-let-tyrion-tour-the-free-cities/ , I thought I’d start a separate thread rather than derail his. Tywin refused Tyrion permission to tour the Free Cities as his uncles had done, the stated reason was that he didn’t trust that he wouldn’t shame House Lannister. As pointed out by the above OP, this seems like an incomplete reason. Of course, Tywin could have just not wanted his dwarf son parading around the Free Cities, or he was genuinely worried that Tyrion would end up running off with a sex worker or simply being dissolute, or he could simply have been behaving spitefully. All possible and in keeping with Tywin’s character and relationship with Tyrion. However, another possibility is that he knew that the Free Cities were where Tysha ended up. I personally subscribe to the theory that Tysha is the Sailor’s Wife - the sex worker in Bravos who insists on marrying all the men she beds (in a grim parody of what happened between Tysha and Tyrion) and has a daughter called Lanna). If Tywin knew Bravos was where Tysha ended up, he may not have wanted to risk Tyrion finding her and learning the truth/running off with her again. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It's unlikely that Tyrion would have just run into Tysha in the Free Cities. It's even more unlikely that Tywin kept tabs on her and knew where she was. So even if she is the Sailor's Wife (who could be Gerion Lannister's wife, by the way), Tywin wouldn't have known to keep Tyrion away from Braavos. Most likely, Tywin was just doing what Tywin does: making Tyrion miserable. Tyrion wanted to tour the Free Cities, so daddy said no. He either was just being a jerk, or figured Tyrion would embarrass House Lannister by whoring and drinking his way through the tour. Or both. Those are enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: It's unlikely that Tyrion would have just run into Tysha in the Free Cities. Unless Tywin knew she ended up in a brothel. If she did, and he knew she did, then the worry would have been there. Chances are hitting the red light district would be the first thing Tyrion would do when he got off the boat. 10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: It's even more unlikely that Tywin kept tabs on her and knew where she was. I don't see why. Tywin may have actually shipped her off there. Or, kept tabs on her simply because he wanted to ensure she didn't cross Tyrion's path again. Or he may just have heard about it from someone else =- "Hey Tywin, remember that girl your son married? She's working a brothel in Bravos now". 10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: So even if she is the Sailor's Wife (who could be Gerion Lannister's wife, by the way) I'm aware of that theory. I think it less likely than the Tysha-Tyrion theory because the staging of marriages strongly points to Tysha. She makes people marry her before sleeping with her because that's what Tyrion did. 10 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: He either was just being a jerk, or figured Tyrion would embarrass House Lannister by whoring and drinking his way through the tour. Or both. Those are enough. All completely plausible, as I said. I have no real evidence apart from the supposition I provided in the OP tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said: Unless Tywin knew she ended up in a brothel. If she did, and he knew she did, then the worry would have been there. Chances are hitting the red light district would be the first thing Tyrion would do when he got off the boat. I don't see why. Tywin may have actually shipped her off there. Or, kept tabs on her simply because he wanted to ensure she didn't cross Tyrion's path again. Or he may just have heard about it from someone else =- "Hey Tywin, remember that girl your son married? She's working a brothel in Bravos now". I'm aware of that theory. I think it less likely than the Tysha-Tyrion theory because the staging of marriages strongly points to Tysha. She makes people marry her before sleeping with her because that's what Tyrion did. All completely plausible, as I said. I have no real evidence apart from the supposition I provided in the OP tbh. Yes, Tyrion would hit the brothels, no question. But we don't know that she would have been in one. Even if she did become a whore, she might not have done so at first. Even if Tywin sent her to Braavos, he wouldn't have known whether she stayed there, or even if she arrived alive. She could have fallen overboard en route. Tywin is not the kind to think in terms of their paths crossing again if he's gotten rid of the girl, and after what was done to her, he would have little reason to think she would welcome a reunion with Tyrion (who believed the lie about her being a whore, and participated in brutalizing and humiliating her). No one but Tyrion, Tysha, Tywin, Jaime, and the drunk septon knew about the marriage, and it's doubtful that any of the Lannister guards involved in her "punishment" would remember what she looked like. That's a good point. Do we know for certain that they married before they slept together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxine Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 I agree with @Lady Blizzardborn. What are the odds that Tyrion would just randomly run into Tysha. Those are long odds considering how many whores there are. And I don't think Tywin cared enough to know where Tysha is. And if cared enough to send her somewhere, I think he would've went further away than Braavos. I wouldn't put it past Tywin to sell her into slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, Maxxine said: I agree with @Lady Blizzardborn. What are the odds that Tyrion would just randomly run into Tysha. Those are long odds considering how many whores there are. And I don't think Tywin cared enough to know where Tysha is. And if cared enough to send her somewhere, I think he would've went further away than Braavos. I wouldn't put it past Tywin to sell her into slavery. I'm not sure he'd go so far as selling her into slavery. He had to know there was a chance of her being pregnant, and even with all of the guards involved, the chances would still be high that Tyrion was the father. Tywin wouldn't want even a Lannister bastard born into slavery. Makes me wonder if he forced her to drink moon tea before getting rid of her. I think maybe the most likely scenario is that he told her to take the silver pieces, and the gold one, leave, and never come back. If she did end up in the prostitution line, there are tons of possibilities for her identity. The Sailor's Wife is missing the fact that Tyrion wasn't a sailor (so it only works if she's lying, or she tried to get to Tyrion and was told he'd been shipped off somewhere). There's also the Veiled Lady, and several others just in Braavos who she could be. She could have gone to Lys, where her lack of Valyrian looks would make her exotic and possibly in demand. She could be in King's Landing, or Dorne even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 I think you're digging too deep in this. Leaving aside if the Sailor's Wife is Tysha or not, concerning himself where a "whore" went was beneath Tywin so long as she was gone from his realm. Tywin's reasoning for denying Tyrion his tour was quite basic, he didn't care to give his son the pleasure of doing so or the opportunity to shame him, without his influence to restrain Tyrion. Yes, it's petty. Tywin's hatred of Tyrion always was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted April 2, 2017 Author Share Posted April 2, 2017 On 01/04/2017 at 1:06 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said: No one but Tyrion, Tysha, Tywin, Jaime, and the drunk septon knew about the marriage, and it's doubtful that any of the Lannister guards involved in her "punishment" would remember what she looked like. Cersei knew "you shamed us all with that episode". And Littlefinger knew, he recounted an unfair version of the story to Sansa. It may not have been common knowledge, but people knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted April 2, 2017 Author Share Posted April 2, 2017 On 01/04/2017 at 1:38 AM, Lady Blizzardborn said: The Sailor's Wife is missing the fact that Tyrion wasn't a sailor It isn't about that though. She marries men before whoring herself to them, sailors just happen to be the clientele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted April 2, 2017 Author Share Posted April 2, 2017 On 01/04/2017 at 2:41 AM, Lord Lannister said: Tywin's reasoning for denying Tyrion his tour was quite basic, he didn't care to give his son the pleasure of doing so or the opportunity to shame him, without his influence to restrain Tyrion. Yes, it's petty. Tywin's hatred of Tyrion always was. I disagree. I think that Tywin sees himself in Tyrion, and hates that. He was ridiculously fixated on Tyrion, and missed Jaime/Cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therae Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said: It isn't about that though. She marries men before whoring herself to them, sailors just happen to be the clientele Her "real" husband is supposed to have been lost at sea, though: Quote The other whores said that the Sailor's Wife visited the Isle of the Gods on the days when her flower was in bloom, and knew all the gods who lived there, even the ones that Braavos had forgotten. They said she went to pray for her first husband, her true husband, who had been lost at sea when she was a girl no older than Lanna. "She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her," said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, "but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse." (FFC, Cat of the Canals) That may just be the story she told at the Happy Port, or maybe it's even how she remembers it (being gang-raped by an entire barracks of guards, and then your ex-new husband, under the eye of your vicious ex-father-in-law is nothing if not traumatic enough to create a completely alternative version of events). But it could just be that she really was married to a someone who went to sea and never came back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said: It isn't about that though. She marries men before whoring herself to them, sailors just happen to be the clientele She also says her husband was a sailor. It's part of her story, heck, it's her name. He married her, left her, and she hopes he'll come back. In the mean time she makes a living "marrying" other men in a city that's also a major sea port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 On 29/03/2017 at 0:20 PM, Shouldve Taken The Black said: Text No. I already wrote in the other thread why I think Tywin didn't allow Tyrion to tour Essos (basically it would have been a recipe for disaster). "Wherever Whores Go" (tm) is not meant to be a specific place (there ain't a part of the map that says "Here Be Whores", it's Tywin's way of saying "what do I care/know?" The very phrasing points toward that interpretation. I doubt we'll see Tysha, if she even is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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