Let's discuss crackpottery

[rotting sea cow]

2 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

Exactly that. Jon being king at the end doesn't make any sense. He doesn't have an army, he doesn't have gold, he doesn't have much allies, he is mostly likely a bastard. There's just 3 people in the whole world who can tell him about his real parantage. Bloodraven, Bran and Howland Reed. Even if he can reach one of these characters, what's the point of him knowing it? Being a Targaryen even a legitimate one, doesn't bring any advantage right now. Daenerys if had to choose anyone to marry, would choose Aegon or any other lord willingly to bend the knee afterwards. So, EVEN and it's a big EVEN Daenerys marries jon. Why would she make him king? She'd mostly likely to rule as a queen rather than letting a man with no army, no gold, no allies and a bastard on the Throne.

Because he can ride dragons.

 

[Damon_Tor]

19 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Rhaego being alive

Glad to see I've got a spot on the short list.

Just remember guys, "Hold the Door" was a random joking crackpot too. You've got a million people all trying to guess what's going to happen, so no matter how creative GRRM might be, probability says there's someone out there who has it right.

[Jak Scaletongue]

20 hours ago, Renly's Banana said:

I haven't seen anyone mention Preston's latest insane ramble about Euron using gallons of blood and Damphair as live bait to summon giant krakens from the ocean. Then using Damphair to telepathically control them or something? Idk I zoned out hard towards the end.

My favorite more REALISTIC theories are Varys and/or Ilyrio and/or his wife being Blackfyre descendants that are directly related to Aegon.

Also congrats on your proper new gay name.. Ser Loras.. The Gay.  

If you've read the most recent spoiler chapter, the bolded part is not so unlikely. Or at least, I can understand how someone got to the end of that chapter and concluded something like this.  Naturally, once we have the WHOLE book, it may not be so likely (well, it IS Euron, so maybe it will turn out likelier....)

16 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

That's a very veery common theory, but it's not supported by any quote from the book. It's a peculiar one also, it changes who was at the tower of joy, or simply adds someone.

You're right, Jon is still a bastard even if they had married. Poligomy even with targs in Westeros wasn't very well seen.

 

I need more crazy crackpots you guys can do it better.

Because he is. Hahahhaa

 

 

There was already more people present than we suspect.  "They" implies at LEAST two people at the tower, still alive, while Ned was with Lyanna.  Howland and...someone.  Could be more than one someone too, "they" just implies more than one up to...well, infinity really but I doubt all of Westeros was there.  But there MUST have been at least one more person besides Howland Reed present at the Tower, or only "HE would have found him still holding her body..."  Maybe it's just Howland holding baby Jon, but maybe not.  There's no mention of anyone else, except for that "They". That's were most of those crackpots come from. 

And who the HELL takes a pregnant woman ready to burst to the middle of fucking nowhere without a gaddamn Maester?  Or at LEAST a midwife!  It's little things like that that make me question how much and whether Rhaegar really *loved* Lyanna or was just using her.  No Maester at the ToJ? He didn't care if she lived or died, as long as his baby did.  Provided a Maester/midwife/woman who had done this before/etc. for the woman carrying his baby? Then I'll believe he cared about her. 

But if you all think we should stick to ONLY what's written on the page? Then Lyanna in the middle of nowhere with no one but three Kingsguard to help her give birth means, to ME, that Rhaegar was a piece of shit that didn't care about Lyanna as anything more than an incubator.  But if he's so dead set on making sure she actually does give birth to a healthy baby, regardless of how he actually felt about Lyanna, he'd provide a Maester or midwife in case shit hits the fan during childbirth!  What if the baby had been breached (butt-first)?  Ain't no Kingsguard gonna save the baby!  You'd need a Maester, someone who actually knows where and how to cut a baby out of the womb, not some knight taking a guess based on what he knows about killing people!  If there really WAS a baby born at the ToJ, then there HAD to be a Maester or midwife present...or else Rhaegar's a pos that didn't care whether the mother OR the baby lived.

A Game of Thrones - Eddard I

"She should be on a hill somewhere, under a fruit tree, with the sun and clouds above her and the rain to wash her clean."

"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers."

The king touched her cheek, his fingers brushing across the rough stone as gently as if it were living flesh. "I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her."

 

 

[Dorian Martell's son]

3 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Glad to see I've got a spot on the short list.

Just remember guys, "Hold the Door" was a random joking crackpot too. You've got a million people all trying to guess what's going to happen, so no matter how creative GRRM might be, probability says there's someone out there who has it right.

I read the theory, it is really crackpot, so here it is 

[Therae]

The one about Dolorous Edd being Beheaded Ned reincarnated. I like that one.

[Orphalesion]

1 hour ago, Therae said:

The one about Dolorous Edd being Beheaded Ned reincarnated. I like that one.

Oh man that reminds me of that Kahl Ned theory from last summer (I think?)

Basically there was something about a wolf-like spirit or wolf-headed spirit present in the tent when Mihhri Maz Dur cast her spel on Drogo, so people spun that into a theory that she fused Ned's and Kahl Drogo's spirits, somehow, and now he/they was/where riding on that crimson comet, somehow. and was/were going to be reincarnated into Jon's dead body, somehow and become "Kahl Ned" who would then lead the Northerners, Free Folk and Dothraki or something.

This in turn spawned a parody theory by me and another forum member who's name I can't recall: Composite Azor Ahai. Every character who is speculated to be Azor Ahai by the fandom (and a ham or ham substitute)  simply fuses into one giant Azor Ahai.

It was entertaining.

[Therae]

1 minute ago, Orphalesion said:

Oh man that reminds me of that Kahl Ned theory from last summer (I think?)

Basically there was something about a wolf-like spirit or wolf-headed spirit present in the tent when Mihhri Maz Dur cast her spel on Drogo, so people spun that into a theory that she fused Ned's and Kahl Drogo's spirits, somehow, and now he/they was/where riding on that crimson comet, somehow. and was/were going to be reincarnated into Jon's dead body, somehow. 

It was entertaining.

(Actually, between the wolf shadow in the tent and the Red Wedding image from the HotU, I am surprised that there isn't some theory shipping Dany and Robb. Or is there?)

[Neddy's Girl]

5 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Glad to see I've got a spot on the short list.

Just remember guys, "Hold the Door" was a random joking crackpot too. You've got a million people all trying to guess what's going to happen, so no matter how creative GRRM might be, probability says there's someone out there who has it right.

Hey, you should be honoured!

But really, I don't want to take the piss out of anyone because I do actually enjoy reading theories that are a bit out there, because, yeah, 6 years is a long time, and there is nobody in my life who gets it!  So I value this forum.

I've even started listening to Preston Jacobs while I'm cooking the dinner; we don't agree on much, but occasionally he has given reasonable doubt to my head canon.  I think anything that makes you think, even if you still say "nah!" in the end is good.

That being said, this is a cool thread, particularly because it led me to the hilarious Nuncle Island theory (100% true).

[Ser Loras The Gay]

4 hours ago, Therae said:

The one about Dolorous Edd being Beheaded Ned reincarnated. I like that one.

I still prefer Ned being the Hooded man at Winterfell. Just sayin.

 

2 hours ago, Neddy's Girl said:

That being said, this is a cool thread, particularly because it led me to the hilarious Nuncle Island theory (100% true).

Thanks :D, I'm relatively new here (my account has some time, but I started posting one month ago), so thank you for praising the Thread. Let's make it bigger. I want to laugh at the crackpots.

[Neddy's Girl]

Heh heh, well I have some really bizarre ideas then, a few of which I've already shared, but to summarise:

No PtwP or AAR

Aegon, not fAegon

Rheagar, Syrio, Ned - all a goner

And most barmy of all, I don't think we'll see Ashara, Tysha, or even Benjen again.

Also, I don't care who's got their arse on the iron throne in the end (unless it's Jaime, I'm cool with that)

I think maybe I'm just jealous because I don't have the imagination to crack any pots myself, but I feel like I'm in the minority with these.

[Therae]

1 minute ago, Neddy's Girl said:

No PtwP or AAR

I'm with you on this one. 

Also Ned and Rhaegar are dead as dead can be. I'd like to think Syrio wiggled out of his fate, though; he deserves better than Meryn F'ing Trant.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

12 minutes ago, Neddy's Girl said:

Aegon, not fAegon

But it's not a theory that Aegon is a Targaryen. It's what is written on the book. The real theory (and is a crackpot one) is that aegon is Illyrio's son with a girl we've never met who COULD be a blackfyre.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

13 minutes ago, Neddy's Girl said:

No PtwP or AAR

I'd like to discuss this one. Just the prophecy surronding the PtwP and the Azor ahai would be fake or all prophecies are fake and just a story we tell to our kids to sleep? It'd be awesome if any prophecy turns out to be true. The fandom would be mad.

[Neddy's Girl]

I have no textual evidence for the above at all.  I suppose it stems from me being an atheist and a sceptic in real life.  And I mean absolutely no offence by this, but...

Naturally I don't believe in the Messiah (which the PtwP and AAR represent to me), and I do think that it is more likely that humanity made up stories to find comfort in the world, than them being true.

However, I cannot explain away magic and gods in a fantasy series (I once proposed Melisandre was immune to poison through consuming small regular amounts, but how can you rationalise killer shadow babies?) and I don't want to.  But I also don't want any deus ex machina because of prophesy.  I like the idea that it screws with our characters.

As for Trant icing Syrio [massive The Wire spoiler below]

 

Could it be like how badass Omar was popped by just some kid in a stairwell?

[Ser Loras The Gay]

3 minutes ago, Neddy's Girl said:

Naturally I don't believe in the Messiah (which the PtwP and AAR represent to me), and I do think that it is more likely that humanity made up stories to find comfort in the world, than them being true.

That's fair enough. The prophecies could either be true or not. It all depends on Martin. He's the one doing the book, so he's the one who'll decide what is true and what is fake. When people take for granted their theories they often forget that, without Martin explicitly putting on books, it's not yet true. R + L = J could not be true, and Jon be ned's bastard. Ashara could be dead, be the Septa or be with Howland Reed. Every assumption we make, no matter how convincing it may be, can only be confirmed by Martin on the future books. I love to speculate, but it's just this. Speculation. 

 

(I've written to much, sorry)

[Buried Treasure]

A cracked pot holds no water. 

But when you shove the broken shards of several different pots together and hold them together with rubber bands it barely looks like a pot and there is nowhere to pour the water. Occasionally that makes pretty shapes that are fun to look at like NEDBERT!, but mostly it is just crap that just litters up the place with dozens of threads from ppl who either lack basic reading comprehension or are trolls arguing nonsense like Mance being Rhaegar.

 

i prefer my pots to have enough structural integrity that you don't notice spilling out for at least a few seconds. Maybe Syrio is alive, maybe Elia and Ashara swapped babies after the birth of Aegon and the stillborn... There is not enough evidence to say those things are true, but theres a lot more fun in speculating what pieces George might give us in the next novel to make those pots more watertight.

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, Neddy's Girl said:

Heh heh, well I have some really bizarre ideas then, a few of which I've already shared, but to summarise:

No PtwP or AAR

This. Prophecies, especially those from Mel are often wrong. They do provide archetypes for characters though. We won't see a literal AA reborn, but Dany fits the bill quite well, sacrificing her beloved so she can wield flaming weapons, and Jon, a prince descended from the line of Aerys and Rhaella 

[Neddy's Girl]

33 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

That's fair enough. The prophecies could either be true or not. It all depends on Martin. He's the one doing the book, so he's the one who'll decide what is true and what is fake. When people take for granted their theories they often forget that, without Martin explicitly putting on books, it's not yet true. R + L = J could not be true, and Jon be ned's bastard. Ashara could be dead, be the Septa or be with Howland Reed. Every assumption we make, no matter how convincing it may be, can only be confirmed by Martin on the future books. I love to speculate, but it's just this. Speculation.

This is so, and it's all too easy to fall into the trap of believing something is true just because we want it to be (as I have demonstrated!)

[Ser Loras The Gay]

19 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

This. Prophecies, especially those from Mel are often wrong. They do provide archetypes for characters though. We won't see a literal AA reborn, but Dany fits the bill quite well, sacrificing her beloved so she can wield flaming weapons, and Jon, a prince descended from the line of Aerys and Rhaella 

Victarion fits as well. Just sayin (laughin inside)

[Lady Blizzardborn]

On 3/29/2017 at 3:50 PM, Ser Loras The Gay said:

When Varys said he liked Ned and then said the realm needs honourable men like him and tried to persuade him to take the black and failed, he then comes back with a FM and change his identity. Varys had motives to keep Ned alive, had the opportunity to sneak out him from the Dungeon and so on. The real problem with the theory is that Ned wouldn't accept such a plan. Of course it's not the ONLY problem with the theory, but it doesn't fit Ned's personality.

Yeah the biggest problem with the theory is that to take on another person's identity that person has to be dead. So we have Ned not being executed by Joffrey because an FM killed him to take his place and...be executed by Joffrey. 

My favorite crackpots are mostly my own. But I have to say one of the best threads ever was the one with the theory that Sandor and Gregor might be brothers.