Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said: If you have to wind through that twisted road to get to that outcome, the term rape is still very inappropriate. "If this, this this this this this and this happen, and then happens in this certain context, its rape" then just brushing over everything with the magical term of "rape culture" is very sloppy. If you do that, then everything is associated with rape, and everything is given that same reaction as rape is. I think its very scary how much people generalize and label things. It's 2017, well past time to leave this sort of nonsense behind. Videogames aren't sexist, rape culture isn't a thing, and so on and so forth. 2015 is over. Yet the logic works. How does quoting the year mean that "videogames aren't sexist" and "rape culture isn't a thing". Thousands of men, from within the gamer community, didn't jump all over a woman for having the temerity to have sex with who she pleased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said: It's 2017, well past time to leave this sort of nonsense behind. 2015 is over. I think this advice is much better applied to discussions of 'alpha' or 'beta' males, which were stupid even in 2015 and are embarrassing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Yet the logic works. How does quoting the year mean that "videogames aren't sexist" and "rape culture isn't a thing". Thousands of men, from within the gamer community, didn't jump all over a woman for having the temerity to have sex with who she pleased? That's a very misinformed opinion on gamergate. 13 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said: If you have to wind through that twisted road to get to that outcome, the term rape is still very inappropriate. "If this, this this this this this and this happen, and then happens in this certain context, its rape" then just brushing over everything with the magical term of "rape culture" is very sloppy. If you do that, then everything is associated with rape, and everything is given that same reaction as rape is. I think its very scary how much people generalize and label things. It's 2017, well past time to leave this sort of nonsense behind. Videogames aren't sexist, rape culture isn't a thing, and so on and so forth. 2015 is over. Good post. The term gets thrown around wildly in many directions and not many people are able to firmly even define what it is or where it even exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: That's a very misinformed opinion on gamergate. Agree, it was based in far less reality and generated far more vitriol and aggression towards women. Can't wait for more /RedPill bullshit to be spewed/whined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, mormont said: I think this advice is much better applied to discussions of 'alpha' or 'beta' males, which were stupid even in 2015 and are embarrassing now. "Beta male" was the first term that popped into my head to describe the type of man I was speaking of. If you have a better term I'd love to hear it. If you are, however, implying that there is no difference between so called alpha and beta personalities in men, or that women don't see a difference or have a preference for the former, then I would have to disagree with you based on all of the scientific evidence compiled on every single species which has ever existed on our planet. 10 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Yet the logic works. How does quoting the year mean that "videogames aren't sexist" and "rape culture isn't a thing". Thousands of men, from within the gamer community, didn't jump all over a woman for having the temerity to have sex with who she pleased? The year was brought up because those issues were raised and then overwhelmingly disproven in 2015. I'm not sure what you are referring to about thousands of men jumping over a woman for having sex with who she pleases. Can I get a link to an article or something about this to look into it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 13 minutes ago, Week said: Agree, it was based in far less reality and generated far more vitriol and aggression towards women. Can't wait for more /RedPill bullshit to be spewed/whined. I would just ask that people go out and read more on the subject outside of what is spouted by the mainstream news outlets. There is a definite narrative to Gamergate that isn't really based on what happened, but is convenient because it sells, because people click when they are angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Maelys, Here you go:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/03/zoe-quinn-gamergate-interview From the article: Quote The undercurrent, however, has always been darkly misogynistic. The victims of Gamergate’s ire have mostly been female developers, academics and writers. It was an alleged relationship between Zoe Quinn and a prominent games journalist that kickstarted the whole furore this summer. Quinn and several other women have since had to flee their homes after death and rape threats – mostly for pointing out that the games industry has a problem with representing women. When I speak to her, Quinn has been in the UK for four days. She doesn’t know where she’s going next. She’s been staying on friends’ couches, at hotels. There is no destination. “How could I go back to my home?” she asks. “I have people online bragging about putting dead animals through my mailbox. I’ve got some asshole in California who I’ve never talked to hiring a private investigator to stalk me. What am I going to do – go home and just wait until someone makes good on their threats? I’m scared that what it’s going to take to stop this is the death of one of the women who’s been targeted.” She is teary and shaking as she talks, but through it all she’s also funny and engaging. Despite the trauma she has been through, she still loves games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Here's another one on how great "Gamergate" is:http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Here's one about the threats lobbed at Anna Sarkeesian:http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/living/gamergate-explainer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said: "Beta male" was the first term that popped into my head to describe the type of man I was speaking of. If you have a better term I'd love to hear it. If you are, however, implying that there is no difference between so called alpha and beta personalities in men, or that women don't see a difference or have a preference for the former, then I would have to disagree with you based on all of the scientific evidence compiled on every single species which has ever existed on our planet. So called alpha males in humans aren't. Just a bunch of idiots who saw the popular perception of wolves, which is wrong btw, and then tried to attach that bullshit to themselves. All the while not actually understand what the term Alpha means. Their understanding of what a beta male is is even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, TrueMetis said: So called alpha males in humans aren't. Just a bunch of idiots who saw the popular perception of wolves, which is wrong btw, and then tried to attach that bullshit to themselves. All the while not actually understand what the term Alpha means. Their understanding of what a beta male is is even worse. In the context in which I'm speaking it may have been better for me to use the terms dominant and submissive instead of alpha and beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: I would just ask that people go out and read more on the subject outside of what is spouted by the mainstream news outlets. There is a definite narrative to Gamergate that isn't really based on what happened, but is convenient because it sells, because people click when they are angry. Read plenty on the subject on sources like Scot posted as well as sources like Ars: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/that-life-is-over-zoe-quinn-looks-beyond-gamergate/https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/new-chat-logs-show-how-4chan-users-pushed-gamergate-into-the-national-spotlight/https://arstechnica.com/business/2015/05/gamergate-critic-posts-death-threat-voicemail-after-inaction-by-prosecutor/ wiki - with the usually caveats of wiki - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy If you have any sources, feel free to share as my previous reading and cursory google searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 20 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said: In the context in which I'm speaking it may have been better for me to use the terms dominant and submissive instead of alpha and beta. Because people are universally "dominant" and "submissive" in all contexts of their lives such that you can define them as universally "dominant" and "submissive"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar of Skagos Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Because people are universally "dominant" and "submissive" in all contexts of their lives such that you can define them as universally "dominant" and "submissive"? Dominant and submissive in a social context. I thought that was quite obvious. These two personality traits do often bleed over into other contexts in an individual's life as well, but in particular for this conversation I am mainly referring to a social context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Maelys, Okay, I've never met a "stranger" and am quite adept at striking up conversations with people where ever I happen to be. But not, I've been married for 15 years mind you, when I was romantically interested in a woman. I had huge anxiety about talking to women I found attractive. Are both of those contexts not "social" yet in one I'm fairly "dominant" and in the other I'm fairly "submissive". I can't be the only person who is like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 48 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said: "Beta male" was the first term that popped into my head to describe the type of man I was speaking of. If you have a better term I'd love to hear it. I don't, because there is no better term to describe a concept that lacks any basis in actual fact. The problem here is not the terminology, the problem is that people do not work this way. 48 minutes ago, Maelys I Blackfyre said: If you are, however, implying that there is no difference between so called alpha and beta personalities in men, or that women don't see a difference or have a preference for the former, then I would have to disagree with you based on all of the scientific evidence compiled on every single species which has ever existed on our planet. No reputable scientific evidence exists to this effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, mormont said: I don't, because there is no better term to describe a concept that lacks any basis in actual fact. The problem here is not the terminology, the problem is that people do not work this way. No reputable scientific evidence exists to this effect. Mormont, And... if this is the case how can those of us who fall within the "beta male" sterotype even end up with someone else if that's the case. Maelys' description of "beta males" is pretty accurate in how awkward I was toward women when I was single. Yet I've been married 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Theres plenty out there to read. These stories always have two side. http://gamergatefacts.tumblr.com/https://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/gamergate-an-issue-with-2-sides/?ncid=twittersocialsharehttp://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201409032102-0024126http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/10/09/the_gender_games_sex_lies_and_videogames_124244.html#.VDbWmQ7vAYQ.twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Mormont, And... if this is the case how can those of us who fall within the "beta male" sterotype even end up with someone else if that's the case. Maelys' description of "beta males" is pretty accurate in how awkward I was toward women when I was single. Yet I've been married 15 years. I'd agree that the Alpha/Beta male definition is essentially bollocks, and was used by some PUA's back in the day. Its mostly a broad generalisation to find a way to catagorise men into groups, those who get laid and those who don't. Thats far too broad but theres some truth in it as there are clearly guys who do very well with women and display certain characteristics and there are men who do badly with women and tend to display the opposite characteristics. Im talking about mainly confidence and charisma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Channel4, So, it's not possible that Gamergater supporters were those who were harrassing Quinn and Sarkeesian? Or are you going for the "No true Scotsman" argument that if they harrassed Quinn and Sarkeesian they can't be part of the support for "Gamergate"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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