Where did Rhaegar get the blue winter roses for Lyanna?

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

We know that Blue Winter Roses are very rare flowers, and if I'm correct Winterfell is the only known place in the seven kingdoms where they're known to grow. So did Rhaegar get them from Winterfell? Or is it likely there's somewhere else they grow? 

[The Fattest Leech]

50 minutes ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

We know that Blue Winter Roses are very rare flowers, and if I'm correct Winterfell is the only known place in the seven kingdoms where they're known to grow. So did Rhaegar get them from Winterfell? Or is it likely there's somewhere else they grow? 

From what I understand about the blue roses, they are rare, however, they do exist naturally, but in warmer places like the Reach, or, Dorne

For Winterfell to have blue roses encased in an expensive glass house, that is rare and that says something within is very special

So, while there are plausible reasons or ways that Rhaegar could have gotten the blue rose (Rhaegar did spill a load of his golden dragons to fund the tourney), those ideas are not the focus, but the symbolism of it is. Rhaegar placed the crown of blue roses on Lyanna's lap using the tip of his lance, and that is how baby Jon's are made.

[The Twinslayer]

1 hour ago, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

We know that Blue Winter Roses are very rare flowers, and if I'm correct Winterfell is the only known place in the seven kingdoms where they're known to grow. So did Rhaegar get them from Winterfell? Or is it likely there's somewhere else they grow? 

Rhaegar got them from whatever lady was wearing them before his final joust against Barristan Selmy.  At the beginning of the tournament, Lord Whent's daughter had it, as she was the reigning queen of beauty.  It may have passed to another lady (or more than one other lady) during the course of the tournament before Rhaegar unhorsed Barristan and claimed it.  But either the Whent maiden or another lady would have been wearing it during the final tilt.  Also, everyone appears to have assumed Rhaegar was going to give it to Elia.  And we know that if Barristan had won, he would have given it to Ashara.  That suggests that there is no particular importance relating to Lyanna to the fact that it was made of winter roses.

Unless...Rhaegar knew before the tournament started that he was going to win and that he was going to give it to Lyanna.  There is a theory that the tournament was rigged for Rhaegar (just as the tournament in The Mystery Knight was rigged).  That is based on the fact that Barristan says that if he was a better knight he would have defeated Rhaegar and that the quality of a knight is based on his honorable actions and not on his skill at arms -- implying that if Barristan had been more honorable (instead of more skillful) he would have unhorsed Rhaegar.  If that theory is true, then perhaps Rhaegar did pick what kind of flowers he was going to give to Lyanna.    

[Lady Blizzardborn]

The crown is provided by the tournament host, so Lord Whent or his master of games took care of that. The only question is whether someone (like Rhaegar or one of the GNC participants) put in a request for a specific type of flower to make up the crown.

[Lord Lannister]

It's not unreasonable to imagine a prince having sufficient connections to acquire rare items.

[Davjos]

12 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

So, while there are plausible reasons or ways that Rhaegar could have gotten the blue rose (Rhaegar did spill a load of his golden dragons to fund the tourney), those ideas are not the focus, but the symbolism of it is. Rhaegar placed the crown of blue roses on Lyanna's lap using the tip of his lance, and that is how baby Jon's are made.

I can't believe that after all this time on the forum(mostly lurking) I didn't catch this. I obviously always connected these roses to the blue rose on the wall Dany sees in a vision, and Jon, but never caught that part about Rhaegars weiner/lance. Thanks for this!

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, Ethelarion said:

I can't believe that after all this time on the forum(mostly lurking) I didn't catch this. I obviously always connected these roses to the blue rose on the wall Dany sees in a vision, and Jon, but never caught that part about Rhaegars weiner/lance. Thanks for this!

No good story is complete without a wiener/lance

[PCK]

He was a prince. Anyone who refused was getting a one-on-one with Ser Gerold.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

16 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Rhaegar placed the crown of blue roses on Lyanna's lap using the tip of his lance, and that is how baby Jon's are made.

God, how could I have missed that analogy..... :bangsheadtowall:

[Ice Turtle]

The original crown was most likely prepared beforehand by those who organised the tourney, it was likely not the crown Lyanna got. while usually it would be uncommon and rude to use the crown prepared by winner, Rhaegar Targaryen was bloody Rhaegar Targaryen, no one aside of Aerys was likely to tell him no. And Aerys almost surely didn't know or didn't care. What I think we can read between the lines of the text is the time when Rhaegar decided to win the tourney, IMO it was after he learned Lyanna was KOTL. That would suggest that the roses were planned at most ?1-2 days beforehand. 

Now I think the in the story winter roses are very symbolic and connected to North/Old Gods/magic. There are few places with similar connection, Winterfell is one of them but so is The Isle of Faces. If I had to bet on one place near Harrenhall where magical blue roses would grow it would be there. Whatever Rhaegar went there personally or Howland was more involved than we thought is harder to tell.

 

[rotting sea cow]

19 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

...., those ideas are not the focus, but the symbolism of it is. Rhaegar placed the crown of blue roses on Lyanna's lap using the tip of his lance, and that is how baby Jon's are made.

This is why I love these books. They are so full of details, we can never really finish reading. Thanks for this beautiful analogy.

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

Great replies! Thanks guys

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I've just imagined, at her crowning moment, Lyanna inquiring at Rhaegar: "Where did you get the coconut winter roses?", and a dialogue ensuing.

[Tralalala]

18 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

I've just imagined, at her crowning moment, Lyanna inquiring at Rhaegar: "Where did you get the coconut winter roses?", and a dialogue ensuing.

Thank you.

[The Fattest Leech]

22 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

I've just imagined, at her crowning moment, Lyanna inquiring at Rhaegar: "Where did you get the coconut winter roses?", and a dialogue ensuing.

Perfect!

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Might I point out that Lord Whent wanted this to be the tourney to end all tourneys, and thus having a QoLaB crown made from extremely rare flowers would be entirely appropriate even without the prince getting involved. It's rather on par with Illyrio giving away dragon eggs as wedding presents. "Look at me! I'm rich! I can afford to give rare stuff away like candy!"

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 10:57 AM, ThePrinceThatKnewNothing said:

We know that Blue Winter Roses are very rare flowers, and if I'm correct Winterfell is the only known place in the seven kingdoms where they're known to grow. So did Rhaegar get them from Winterfell? Or is it likely there's somewhere else they grow? 

Harrenhal's greenhouse ? If the Blue Winter roses bloom only during the winter , it was  the beginning of the false spring perhaps there was some in Harrenhal's  gods' woods or near the God's Eye or on the Isle of Faces ?

[Dorian Martell's son]

18 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Might I point out that Lord Whent wanted this to be the tourney to end all tourneys, and thus having a QoLaB crown made from extremely rare flowers would be entirely appropriate even without the prince getting involved. It's rather on par with Illyrio giving away dragon eggs as wedding presents. "Look at me! I'm rich! I can afford to give rare stuff away like candy!"

bingo 

[Frey family reunion]

Harrenhal gift shop.

Or more seriously, perhaps someone gave them to Rhaegar to crown Lyanna.  What I find a more interesting question, is whether Rhaegar knew of the significance of the blue rose of the Bael the Bard tale.  

Jon Snow hadn't heard the tale and he grew up in the North.  It appeared to be a Wildling folklore as opposed to a northern one.  Now Rhaegar did have correspondence with Aemon, who may have learned of the tale when he went up to the Wall.  His knowledge of the tale would probably be the biggest factor as to his motivation in crowning Lyanna with the blue roses.