Tysha Theories??

[StevieSeastar]

Hi folks!

I know this has probably been discussed lots on the site but it would take me a long time to get through everything...

So what's everyone's theories on Tysha? Do you think Tyrion will ever see her again? It's always been something that I've wondered about after reading the series. I know the Tasha storyline was to us to see how cruel Tywin was to Tyrion, however I cant help but wonder there could be more of the story to come.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Her name is Tysha. 

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/144776-tyrion-will-go-to-braavos/

[StevieSeastar]

Ok I got it wrong, you obviously knew who I meant, thanks for pointing it out

[Renly's Banana]

There is nothing more to come. Her story is over. She most likely had a bastard son, married some peasant and lived a semi-miserable life somewhere on the outskirts of Lannisport until she died of a pox ten years later. 

Tyrion is not going to ever find her because he's not meant to find her. She's not some important hidden character or the Queen of Whoretown in Sothoryos. She's gone. Her purpose is to haunt Tyrion's past and nothing else. 

[StevieSeastar]

True, this is the most possible outcome I agree, however I do like to wonder as she was such a significant person to Tyrion. Tyrion is very recognisable in Westeros, if Tysha is still about and also in Westeros she would have been able to watch him over the years. If he does ever return to Westeros she could let herself be known to him ( for good or bad intentions I am not sure ), this is pretty crackpot I know but it's something that I've thought about a few times

[Lost Melnibonean]

17 minutes ago, Renly's Banana said:

There is nothing more to come. Her story is over. She most likely had a bastard son, married some peasant and lived a semi-miserable life somewhere on the outskirts of Lannisport until she died of a pox ten years later. 

Tyrion is not going to ever find her because he's not meant to find her. She's not some important hidden character or the Queen of Whoretown in Sothoryos. She's gone. Her purpose is to haunt Tyrion's past and nothing else. 

Nah... I say, when you see a banana like this in the book, you gotta peel it.

[Prince of the North]

It may or may never come to anything.  But Martin has established the foundation for a Tysha-Tyrion reunion, if he chooses.  She could easily be the famous "Sailor's wife" prostitute of Braavos who requires men to "marry" her before they can be with her.  She even has an approximately 14 year old, blonde-haired, bastard daughter named "Lanna"

[Morgana Lannister]

Well, I have certainly read a number of threads on this topic and there is no scarcity of theories out there.  Also, George did confirmed in an interview that we get to find out "where whores go."  This is however vague.  Okay, I find it unlikely that he was referring to anything other than Tysha.  Still he was asked, will we find out, not will Tyrion find out?  So Tyrion may or may not.

I am trying to approach this topic more from the impact that the various possible scenarios would have on "end game Tyrion" since she basically seems to exist purely in this series as a plot device to his development as a complex character.  

Okay, in this vein (and feel free to disagree) I am convinced that he is going to make it till the very end of the series and very likely (IMHO) beyond.  Okay, Ned seemed like the absolute protagonist on the first book and looked what happened, however Ned's death was essential to cause the war of the five kings, which is the main political scenario throughout; that and the Others of course.  Also his obsession with dragons etc seems to imply that he has a part to play with them, even if he never gets to ride one.  So assuming he will be alive and kicking when the Long Night comes, I am just going to try to see what the impact on him and his actions would be depending on what he finds.  Also, I am bearing in mind we need a compos mentis Tyrion to help save the day and at the moment, although slightly coming out of it he is an almost suicidal, drunken, bitter mess.  Tysha's rejection or even death caused in part by his own actions would throw him further into darkness, although there is something to be said also for closure.

As per the ending of ADWD and his chapter in the upcoming TWOW, Tyrion is pivotal in persuading the Second Sons to turn their clock yet again and join Dany.  She might have mistrusted them but she is not there and Barristan will need all the help he can get so their allegiance will begin.  I think in the books she will accept him more due to the fact that his cunning won her the battle against Yunkai than the fact that he killed his own father.  I feel that it seems almost inevitable that they will team up.  Now, assuming A) Tysha is the Sailor's Wife or B ) that the SW knows about Tysha's fate.  Now, I can see a number of reasons why, as the skilled diplomat that he is, he would be sent to Braavos on some mission.  It could be connected with the Sealord or even with the Bank...  So him turning up at the Happy Port is rather plausible to me.  This doesn't have to happen in TWOW could be in ADOS... so that would give enough time for him to serve Daenerys, visit Bravoos, go back to Westeros etc.  George has stated (but haven't got the sources at hand that Tyrion will not recover mentally until at least the middle of next book and that although his path is linked to Dany's they will not meet at least until towards the end of TWOW, so I don't think we will find out about Tysha, at least not from Tyrion's point of view until later in the book or the next one, unless of course Barristan dies or accepts him on Dany's behalf in her absence and sends him there...

Now, going hypothetically for  A) Tysha is the Sailor's Wife - I have no doubt they would recognise each other instantly.  3 main thinks could happen A i)  she never forgave him for the part he took in the rape and sends him packing.  He might have some closure in knowing that at least she is alive and that he had the chance to apologise/explain... this is likely to send him back to the darkest depths of his mind yet again and his arc going that way would not make sense and with her I feel he wants forgiveness more than anything else.  I see both him and Arya as a having a 3 phase arc; i.e. first appear sympathetic and decent people, second, become a lot darker due to what others did to them or their loved ones, third, bounce back, perhaps not to the point they were when they started but something much lighter than when at rock bottom. She might even tell him that he married him for his position and gold but he will never know for sure if this is true or just acting like a woman (more than justifiably) scorned.  Also no one will never know in that world if Lanna is or not his daughter.  I believe this is one of the reasons Tywin had Tysha raped by as many as possible, although I guess it could have been easier to have her killed instead or as well...  Regardless, as there would be a chance that she might be his, he would want to help her, especially as he is now working as a whore.  But how would he do this?  He is not flavour of the month at Casterly or Kings Landing so getting her to live with the Lannisters, as Joy does, is not an option; taking her to Dany to serve Dany in some capacity might be an option... but seems a bit of an impractical complication or he could use his influence with Varys/Illyrio or the like to either just Lanna or both a chance of a better life elsewhere under a new identity.

A ii)  after a really tense but emotional reunion and given his powers of persuasion she forgives him.  She tells him he understand his fear of his father and that especially at that age controlling his hormones could not have been easy (and given her profession she should know lol).  Then what next  A ii) a)  they decide to try to live happily ever after - too Disney for this series plus numerous complications.  He is married to someone else who could bring about a very powerful alliance to Dany's team and he is an ambitious guy (although I appreciate that there is no guarantee at all that Sansa will have him back as a husband).  A move like this outside of Dorne would neutralise him as a political player.  This could lead to a powerful ending of this topic though; he gets the opportunity to be with them as a family but has to say good bye to his political dreams and he chooses his political career, mayhaps... A ii) b ) they part us friends after acknowledging that their respective lives have moved on - could be because she has come to like her new life (not all prostitutes are totally unhappy especially if she they are getting a financially comfortable life style) and acknowledges that he has no realistic prospect of being with her out in the open and, say, she is not prepared to hide like Shae had to... They never knew each other well and they are totally different people. It would be ironic if she gave her a gold coin back and told him that she will be happy to oblige if he ever visits Braavos again but for now is farewell or something on those lines...

Okay this post is now ridiculously long but I decided once and for all to explore all the outcomes I can envisage.  Will post more in a sec

[Morgana Lannister]

1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Well, I have certainly read a number of threads on this topic and there is no scarcity of theories out there.  Also, George did confirmed in an interview that we get to find out "where whores go."  This is however vague.  Okay, I find it unlikely that he was referring to anything other than Tysha.  Still he was asked, will we find out, not will Tyrion find out?  So Tyrion may or may not.

I am trying to approach this topic more from the impact that the various possible scenarios would have on end game Tyrion since she basically seems to exist purely in this series as a plot device to his development as a complex character.  

Okay, in this vein (and feel free to disagree) I am convinced that he is going to make it till the very end of the series and very likely (IMHO) beyond.  Okay, Ned seemed like the absolute protagonist on the first book and looked what happened, however Ned's dead was essential to cause the war of the five kings, which is the main political scenario throughout; that and the Others of course.  Also his obsession with dragons etc seems to imply that he has a part to play with them even if he never gets to ride one.  So assuming he will be alive and kicking when the Long Night comes, I am just going to try to see what the impact on him and his actions would be depending on what he finds.  Also, I am bearing in mind we need a compos mentis Tyrion to help save the day and at the moment, although slightly coming out it he is an almost suicidal, drunken, bitter mess.  Tysha's rejection or even death caused in part by his own actions would throw him further into darkness, although there is something to be said also for closure.

As per the ending of ADWD and his chapter in the upcoming TWOW, Tyrion is pivotal in persuading the Second Sons to turn their clock yet again and join Dany.  She might have mistrusted them but she is not there and Barristan will need all the help he can get so their allegiance will begin.  I think in the books she will accept him more due to the fact that his cunning won her the battle against Yunkai than the fact that he killed his own father.  I feel that it seems almost inevitable that they will team up.  Now, assuming A) Tysha is the Sailor's Wife or B ) that the SW knows about Tysha's fate.  Now, I can see a number of reasons why, as the skilled diplomat that he is, he would be sent to Braavos on some mission.  It could be connected with the Sealord or even with the Bank...  So him turning up at the Happy Port is rather plausible to me.  This doesn't have to happen in TWOW could be in ADOS... so that would give enough time for him to serve Daenerys, visit Bravoos, go back to Westeros etc.  George has stated (but haven't got the sources at hand that Tyrion will not recover mentally until at least the middle of next book and that although his path is linked to Dany's they will not meet at least until towards the end of TWOW, so I don't think we will find out about Tysha, at least not from Tyrion's point of view until later in the book or the next one, unless of course Barristan dies or accepts him on Dany's behalf in her absence and sends him there...

Now, going hypothetically for  A) Tysha is the Sailor's Wife - I have no doubt they would recognise each other instantly.  3 main thinks could happen A i)  she never forgave him for the part he took in the rape and sends him packing.  He might have some closure in knowing that at least she alive and that he had the chance to apologise/explain... this is likely to send him back to the darkest depths of his mind yet again and his arc going that way would not make sense and with her I feel he wants forgiveness more than anything else.  I see both him and Arya as a having a 3 phase arc; i.e. first appear sympathetic and decent people, second, become a lot darker due to what others did to them or their loved ones, third, bounce back, perhaps not to the point they were when they started but not something much lighter than when at rock bottom. She might even tell him that he married him for his position and gold but he will never know for sure if this is true or just acting like a woman (justifiably) scorned.  Also no one will never know in that world if Lanna is or not his daughter.  I believe this is one of the reasons Tywin had her raped by as many as possible, although I guess it could have been easier to have her killed instead or as well...  Regardless, as there would be a chance that she might be his, he would want to help her, especially as he is now working as a whore.  But how would he do this?  He is not flavour of the month at Casterly or Kings Landing so getting her to live with the Lannister as Joy does is not an option; taking her to Dany to serve Dany in some capacity might be an option... but seems a bit of an impractical complication or he could use his influence with Varys/Illyrio or the like to either just Lanna or both a chance of a better life elsewhere under a new identity.

A ii)  after a really tense but emotional reunion and giving his powers of persuasion she forgives him.  She tells him he understand his fear of his father and that especially at that age controlling his hormones could not have been easy (and given her profession she should know lol).  Then what next  A ii) a)  they decide to try to live happily ever after - too Disney for this series plus numerous complications.  He is married to someone else who could bring about a very powerful alliance to Dany's team and he is an ambitious guy (although I appreciate that there is no guarantee at all that Sansa will have him back as a husband).  A move like this outside of Dorne would neutralise him as a political player.  This could lead to a powerful ending of this topic though; he gets the opportunity to be with them as a family but has to say good bye to his political dreams and he chooses his political career, mayhaps... A ii) b ) they part us friends after acknowledging that their respective lives have moved on - could be because she has come to like her new life (not all prostitutes are totally unhappy especially if she they are getting a financially comfortable life style) and acknowledges that he has no realistic prospect of being with her out in the open and is not prepared to hide like Shae had to... They never knew each other well and they are totally different people. It would be ironic if she gave her a gold coin back and told him that she will be happy to oblige if he ever visits Braavos again but for now is farewell or something on those lines...

Okay this post is now ridiculously long but I decided once and for all to explore all the outcomes I can envisage.  Will post more in a sec

Okay, back with the rest.  

B ) The Sailor's Wife is not Tysha but she knows of Tysha's fate - a bit convenient that she would know of Tysha's fate but nothing is impossible.  She might even have worked for her for a time.  I am more inclined to think that the closure Tyrion will get from TSW will be to find out more about Gerion.  I think Gerion, given the name Lanna also is a strong candidate for her first husband, especially with the prediction.  Okay no so much closure if his body was never found, a bit a la Benjen here...  Were I writing the books I would be having nightmares having to figure out a way of narrating what happened to either of these two gentlemen in a way that is credible (not meaning what happened isn't looking credible but how people would get to know of it).  But, if he wants to do it I am sure he will pull it off.  Now, it could even be that TSW has Tysha in her employ even now then we got back to what was said above if TSW was Tysha - the circumstances would be the same.

Tysha certainly had enough coin in her and no doubt enough fear too to find passage across the narrow sea but without a trade that we know of and being a low born woman in that brutal world, yes she might had become a whore later.  Both having had Westerosi husbands and from the same family would no doubt had bonded them together.

So what could be Tysha's fate that she knows about:

B i) She knew her once but Tysha moved on or married a rich merchant or [insert random fate ] - from a narrative point of view this opens a can of worms.  Neither Tyrion, not George have the time and/or page space for.  Tyrion would certainly go on a quest to find her; I think for two reasons:  he loved her once and wants at the very least closure and to apologise and he is a character very motivated by curiosity.  I personally think this is the most unlikely scenario of what I have tried to explore so far.

B ii) She knew her once but Tysha is now dead - this one, I think, has more potential.  However this presents the problem that if she hadn't been raped etc (even if he hadn't been naive enough to marry a lowborn knowing his father)  she would had never gone to Braavos and she wouldn't had died however it is that she died (a brutal client, greyscale some other plague???) so he will blame himself over and over and again we wouldn't get the "recovering" Tyrion I think George needs for the ending of the series...  Now, if she had been contented for a time, say, she moved up in society somehow or found a client who was truly in love with her who married her and then died of a plague or something I guess that could be acceptable but only if say that hypothetical husband and any children died too.  Otherwise, yes, ambitious or not we get Tyrion on his quest yet again!  Also her death would mean no opportunity for him to say sorry.

So what scenarios we have left...

I think I have reach the end of what I type here again lol but I am nearly done 

[Ser Snowflake]

Tysha is obviously a Hoare Bastard who was living in the Westerlands when she had her fateful encounter with Tyrion Lannister and Tywin's band of merry guards.

Considering Tysha's lineage and the question of where do whores/Hoares go, the answer is quite simple.....Tysha is currently residing at  a holdfast at Great Wyk,  raising her bastard offspring who is secretly the PTWP and yet another Targ bastard through Tyrion.

 

[Morgana Lannister]

9 minutes ago, FreeWifi said:

Tysha is obviously a Hoare Bastard who was living in the Westerlands when she had her fateful encounter with Tyrion Lannister and Tywin's band of merry guards.

Considering Tysha's lineage and the question of where do whores/Hoares go, the answer is quite simple.....Tysha is currently residing at  a holdfast at Great Wyk,  raising her bastard offspring who is secretly the PTWP and yet another Targ bastard through Tyrion.

 

I have to say I am astonished because I had to put house Hoare in wiki to try and remember who they are/were. lol  That would be obscure indeed but how we or even Tyrion find about that and what the consequences would be?

When I first read your post I was like WTF!!!  but I see you think that George may be playing with the words:  "Hoare" "whore".  Now even if Tyrion is a Targ after what happened there is no guarantee Ty is the father... and do you think they will meet, even in your scenario?  Just asking not being sarcastic or anything, promise lol

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I have this idea in the back of my mind that Littlefinger knows where whores go and he'll produce Tysha. If she happens to be in Braavos (the Sailor's Wife or otherwise) that still works because Littlefinger's family is from Braavos and he will undoubtedly have connections there.

[Dorian Martell's son]

5 hours ago, StevieSeastar said:

Hi folks!

I know this has probably been discussed lots on the site but it would take me a long time to get through everything...

So what's everyone's theories on Tysha? Do you think Tyrion will ever see her again? It's always been something that I've wondered about after reading the series. I know the Tasha storyline was to us to see how cruel Tywin was to Tyrion, however I cant help but wonder there could be more of the story to come.

She probably died from infection due to the injuries brought on her by having to screw an entire barracks ful of men at arms and then her husband. That is why Tyrion never saw her again 

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I have this idea in the back of my mind that Littlefinger knows where whores go and he'll produce Tysha. If she happens to be in Braavos (the Sailor's Wife or otherwise) that still works because Littlefinger's family is from Braavos and he will undoubtedly have connections there.

I agree with this. IF Tysha is still alive, and not Tyrion's Jenny, this seems plausible to me. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

I agree with this. IF Tysha is still alive, and not Tyrion's Jenny, this seems plausible to me. 

Tyrion's...Jenny?  I'm missing a reference, I think.

[Morgana Lannister]

6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Her name is Tysha. 

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/144776-tyrion-will-go-to-braavos/

I read it btw and I tried to incorporate what was in that thread as much as I could in my very long ones here lol

 

[Morgana Lannister]

15 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

She probably died from infection due to the injuries brought on her by having to screw an entire barracks ful of men at arms and then her husband. That is why Tyrion never saw her again 

I am just about finishing a post with every possible answer for you guys to judge (or disagree for that matter) lol  It's a plausible scenario indeed but then we need to find out (as readers) even if Tyrion never does, George promised that much! but I guess someone in the Lannister household or its vicinity could tell us....

[Morgana Lannister]

1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Okay, back with the rest.  

B ) The Sailor's Wife is not Tysha but she knows of Tysha's fate - a bit convenient that she would know of Tysha's fate but nothing is impossible.  She might even have worked for her for a time.  I am more inclined to think that the closure Tyrion will get from TSW will be to find out more about Gerion.  I think Gerion, given the name Lanna also is a strong candidate for her first husband, especially with the prediction.  Okay no so much closure if his body was never found, a bit a la Benjen here...  Were I writing the books I would be having nightmares having to figure out a way of narrating what happened to either of these two gentlemen in a way that is credible (not meaning what happened isn't looking credible but how people would get to know of it).  But, if he wants to do it I am sure he will pull it off.  Now, it could even be that TSW has Tysha in her employ even now then we got back to what was said above if TSW was Tysha - the circumstances would be the same.

Tysha certainly had enough coin in her and no doubt enough fear too to find passage across the narrow sea but without a trade that we know of and being a low born woman in that brutal world, yes she might had become a whore later.  Both having had Westerosi husbands and from the same family would no doubt had bonded them together.

So what could be Tysha's fate that she knows about:

B i) She knew her once but Tysha moved on or married a rich merchant or [insert random fate ] - from a narrative point of view this opens a can of worms.  Neither Tyrion, not George have the time and/or page space for.  Tyrion would certainly go on a quest to find her; I think for two reasons:  he loved her once and wants at the very least closure and to apologise and he is a character very motivated by curiosity.  I personally think this is the most unlikely scenario of what I have tried to explore so far.

B ii) She knew her once but Tysha is now dead - this one, I think, has more potential.  However this presents the problem that if she hadn't been raped etc (even if he hadn't been naive enough to marry a lowborn knowing his father)  she would had never gone to Braavos and she wouldn't had died however it is that she died (a brutal client, greyscale some other plague???) so he will blame himself over and over and again we wouldn't get the "recovering" Tyrion I think George needs for the ending of the series...  Now, if she had been contented for a time, say, she moved up in society somehow or found a client who was truly in love with her who married her and then died of a plague or something I guess that could be acceptable but only if say that hypothetical husband and any children died too.  Otherwise, yes, ambitious or not we get Tyrion on his quest yet again!  Also her death would mean no opportunity for him to say sorry.

So what scenarios we have left...

I think I have reach the end of what I type here again lol but I am nearly done 

C) She never left Westeros or she did but no one Tyrion knows knows her fate - this is the most random but perhaps ironically one of the most plausible theories.  So some random fate plot will either take him to her or tell him or her fate...  to me that would be hugely unsatisfactory, especially given the fact that George has nominated as his favourite character in this series...

Leaves, C i) we will find out but Tyrion will not - slightly unsatisfactory since she is so important to his arc lol but hey, realistic; no one ever solves all their mysteries or kills all their ghosts...

But then this leaves it open to anything; she could be anyone now or even dead unknown to him; what would be the impact on the story?  Unless her arc is very pertinent to a major character even if just in facilitating something I cannot see one...

Summarising, for all George's vagueness I think Tyrion will now and have some form of closure.  Throwing Tyrion into more suicidal despair is not ideal coming up to the Long Night and he is a major character for sure, so guys what do you think???

I am sure, btw, I have missed many other possible scenarios so bring them on!!!

 

 

[The Fattest Leech]

31 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Tyrion's...Jenny?  I'm missing a reference, I think.

Like Ghost of HH has Jenny of Old Stones, who she thinks about and wants songs about, but can never have back. The Tysha+Tyrion story has a touch of Jenny + Duncan, Prince of Dragon-flies.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

8 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Like Ghost of HH has Jenny of Old Stones, who she thinks about and wants songs about, but can never have back. The Tysha+Tyrion story has a touch of Jenny + Duncan, Prince of Dragon-flies.

Oh. That Jenny! Got it now. For a minute I was thinking of an old Irish song about a guy looking for a girl he loved named Jenny, but she took off with a soldier and he never found her again. Used to sing that to annoy my sister named Jennifer.